Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV
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yeah let's ignore his terrible numbers away from Jack, because it's noise. Let's ignore the terrible PP as well.
But he's a good rush player because micro stats say he is.
Is a fringe top-10 powerplay really worth being called terrible?
It was definitely bad at times, but I mean, the first month of the season counts, you know.
It was definitely bad at times, but I mean, the first month of the season counts, you know.
Well when he played him with Nico it went poorly. Probably because Nico plays in defensive situations, and not the most choice offensive situations. Small sample perhaps, but should a coach keep running a player in a role which is showing very poor early results?
If Toffoli is going to play it should be with a player like Jack in predominantly offensive situations. I have no problem with that.
The PP isn't any better right now - more shots are going in but it is worse across the board in terms of shot quantity and quality. The PP was also ungodly good to start the year but I guess Toffoli only gets the blame.
And, tip of the cap to you for hand waving away 10,000 5v5 minutes of Toffoli's career numbers by clinging to a 300min sample to support your confirmation bias.
Ok, what was the number prior to his trade?
Because I promise you it wasn't in the bottom 10.
- Dec 20, 2018
- 21,771
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Those unis have too much blue for @Satans Hockey lol
Those are the NY Liberty colors, might be a homage to them. (Wait, looked it up and Liberty are Seafoam Green/Black and this is Turquoise/Navy Blue. Close.)
All the teams have the Rangers thing, they haven’t named the teams yet so they don’t have logos. League came together in ~5 months.
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Toffoli is 31, is clearly slow as heck, and was bad playing away from Hughes this year. His on ice numbers from 2014 aren't that relevant in this discussion.
Does anyone really think if Toffoli was on the 3rd line this season in NJ that he would have good possession numbers?
TrufleShufle
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- Aug 31, 2012
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They talked about it being record breaking bad since January. Like all time.
As of March 1st, in terms of goals/60 it was still fringey top 10, so the recent run really hasn't swayed the numbers.
We do know though that it stunk for awhile with toffoli. Does the early season stretch count? Yes, and if it rebounded with him the large stretch of stink could be waved away, but it never did, and I think we can all agree it wasn't working.
Again, if you are willing to cling to his play away from Jack with the Devils, why aren't you using his play with Winnipeg so far to prove your point? Surely he couldn't be playing well there given they don't have Jack.
Yeah, and the first 3 months of the season still count.
Turns out that after his last game with NJ the team's cumulative PP% was 22.6%
Since he left it has risen all the way to *checks notes* 22.6%.
TrufleShufle
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- Aug 31, 2012
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That's fine, but it was obvious for a while it was stale and a change was needed and wasn't going to happen until Fitz forced Greens hand and gave him no option besides running 4 guys out there.
I and many others said this before he was traded, he could and most likely would go to other teams and thrive. Outside of Jack, he didn't work in our system. Wasn't a good fit.
Ok so it was stale and needed to change, and it hasn't moved either way. Does that seem like a Toffoli issue to you? Or a coaching one that has yet to be fixed?
- Dec 20, 2018
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Not sold on Zadorov as 2nd pair defender with real responsibilities, he’s played on the 3rd pair quite a bit. He also can’t stick with a team and will have a big contract ask.
PizzaAndPucks
New Jersey Angels diehard
- Nov 29, 2018
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The powerplay hit some extreme lows this season where it didn't even look like and advantage. Players were not in sync whatsoever and not having a pure shooter/goal scorer out there was killing them. Guys like Hamilton/Meier/Holtz need to be out on the top unit to complement players like Jack/Bratt/Luke etc.
The ppwerplay going ice cold cost them many points in the standings. There was games where the score was tight but we would go 0/4 or 0/5 on the powerplay where a goal here and there would of been big.
The ppwerplay going ice cold cost them many points in the standings. There was games where the score was tight but we would go 0/4 or 0/5 on the powerplay where a goal here and there would of been big.
I don't know how they are using him over there. Looks like he is still playing with good players, and I bet it's in some offensively conducive minutes.
But I got to roll. I'll pick this up later if anyone wants to continue the debate.
He was thriving here! (To a reasonable definition of the word thriving).
Who CARES if he only works with Jack (which was hardly categorically proven). He scored at a good clip, was only about as porous defensively as the rest of our roster, and he spent a lot of the year playing alongside a crippled Jack.
He's not going to carry an elite line, and he wasn't expected to nor paid to nor did we pay enough in assets to acquire a guy who would.
Who CARES if he only works with Jack (which was hardly categorically proven). He scored at a good clip, was only about as porous defensively as the rest of our roster, and he spent a lot of the year playing alongside a crippled Jack.
He's not going to carry an elite line, and he wasn't expected to nor paid to nor did we pay enough in assets to acquire a guy who would.
I thought it was just Jack? Now we should remove his numbers from all good players? He is getting a higher rate of deployment in the Dzone with Winnipeg then he got in NJ (18 OZ/26NZ/16DZ after a 71% OZ deployment here)- so your bet was incorrect.
But the reality is this isn't a debate - you have made up your mind on what Toffoli is and have shown no interest in entertaining that you might be off on your evaluation.
JK3
Go Easy-Step Lightly-Stay Free
I’ll never understand defending the Toffoli/Shara trade, kind of a waste, a lot of cope going on there.
I kinda like Zadorov, but I think he's going to get overpaid for what he actually brings on the ice (i.e. a third pairing defender). I'd ideally like to aim a little higher, and see if we can find a guy capable of middle pairing minutes. But if the deal is fair, I have no issues bringing him in to replace Bahl.
No interest in Bertuzzi. Guy rides shotgun next to some very good players this year and can barely produce. And he's not his uncle, he doesn't bring anything like what you'd need from an intangibles perspective to be worth being a very very poor man's Bratt on the ice.
The problem with the power play now is that Jack cannot shoot and he does not have the same facility/elusiveness with the puck. When he is healthy, he is zooming around the offensive zone causing trouble for defenders. Here he's flubbing a lot of pucks, his passes aren't as precise, and it's throwing everything off. The power play getting bounces doesn't change that.
Oh okay.
Some of you really aren't used to the Devils making trades with roster players. Lou didn't do it for 20 years, Shero did it with Henrique and Larsson and that's about it. It's going to happen now.
Oh okay.
Some of you really aren't used to the Devils making trades with roster players. Lou didn't do it for 20 years, Shero did it with Henrique and Larsson and that's about it. It's going to happen now.
TrufleShufle
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2012
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Both, what would Toffoli contribute if he wasn't on the PP? Only 5v5 and only with Jack? Yea coach should have changed it up, but it's still a hinderance when you have a unatasker who is useless when tasked with anything else.
Nothing is black and white, I think Toffoli made the fluidness of the team structure much worse. Bad coach on top of that. This team had multiple problems, that's obvious right?
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