Confirmed with Link: Devils Acquire D Ryan Graves from COL

[NJ DevLolz]

The best part about the Graves move is that it will likely satisfy Fitz’s size mandate which lessons the likelihood of Risto

 

[MartyOwns]

On the contrary, I think Coleman for a 1st and Foote is the kind of deal you need analytics for - traditional scouting would've seldom told you to bet so heavily on a player with such little pedigree (drafted 3rd round overage, took 6 years to reach the NHL). Even if your pro scout picks up on this guy as something special, are you really willing to bet that hard on a guy with those NHL results? Remember that GMs' goal is to keep their job first and win the Cup second, or at least these priorities are pretty balanced - a big swing and a miss can easily land you out of work a year later.

coleman had 21 goals in 57 games when we dealt him. i'm sure advanced analytics backed up the assertion that he was a great player, but i think the basic stats said everything they needed to know.

 

[MadDevil]

I like how Sal is already calling him Gravesy.

 

[Traitor Zach]

Coleman was a great fit for Tampa in helping solidify better two way play in the 3rd line and their addition of Goodrow as well also showed they did a lot of self-scouting of how their team was structured and how they could roll their lines/fill their lines.

Kudos to Tampa - they made moves to take a shot in a window.

 

[Forge]

I like how Sal is already calling him Gravesy.

Hockey players are the absolute worst at nicknames.

 

[Buck Dancer]

They were basically building a team from the ground up when the rebuild started in 2015....this was always going to take awhile. We just started seeing the young guys break through this past year and they will continue to get better. Our two #1 overall centers are going to be the team leaders.

there WAS improvement in 2018 by the way, they made the playoffs.

With key players that are no longer here, yeah.

With that said, I should be expecting a gradual improvement and by that, I mean not having to pick in the top #5 next year or the following years to come.

 

[tr83]

I like how Sal is already calling him Gravesy.

Id rather be called gravel

 

[Zippy316]

The best part about the Graves move is that it will likely satisfy Fitz’s size mandate which lessons the likelihood of Risto

I don’t think we were ever a good fit for him. I still think he’s going to look solid if he goes to the right team. He’s been way over his head the entire time in Buffalo and the organization being a train wreck around him hasn’t helped.

Montreal makes a ton of sense to try to replace Weber and play behind Petry with a solid defensive partner like Edmundsson or Chiarot. Islanders would be a good team fit for him too.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Hockey players are the absolute worst at nicknames.

Fine, we'll go with Graveser then

 

[MartyOwns]

if gritsyuk ever solidifies a spot, a great username would be Grits and Gravy

 

[Devils731]

Fine, we'll go with Graveser then

Gravy is a tastier nickname. Robust and can compliment so many things.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

So we're hoping this guy is an Andy Greene type of player? If so this is worth the price. Hoping this isn't our only move though.

 

[MadDevil]

Gravy is a tastier nickname. Robust and can compliment so many things.

I look forward to the Bahl Gravy pairing.

 

[The 29th Pick]

I look forward to the Bahl Gravy pairing.

how about the Ham-Gravy
as in Hamiton ooohhhhhhh

 

[LeedsMonster]

I'm going to rank this as a pretty good trade for the Devils, and a very, very good trade for Colorado.

If you're an Avs fan, Graves was the most likely suspect to go to Seattle in the expansion draft, and by a long shot. He's a 6'5, physical and stay-at-home defenseman -- which is a coveted commodity by NHL coaches and front offices. Instead of losing him for nothing, you got a 2nd round pick and a likely future 4th line forward in Mikhail Maltsev. This is a great deal.

If you're the Devils, you just received a big body who can play physical on the blueline. The Devils are desperate for this. NJ has been one of the softest teams in the league for several years running, and this is a big reason for the inability to move up in the win/loss column. Graves is also decent with the puck, skates okay, and has a pretty good shot -- so we're not talking about a blueline crusher who is a liability with the puck. He'll be a nice pairing option for an offensive RD like Damon Severson, and he'll be useful on the PK.

However, I will say it feels a bit much for the Devils to give up. I know I'm a draft guy, but I feel a big reason for the Devils running in place a bit during the rebuild has been a constant penchant for trading away 2nd round draft picks. To me, 2nd round picks are extremely valuable, and the best teams tend to often hit on them. Nikita Kucherov certainly comes to mind -- but the second round is generally a great round to draft very good defensemen. I like Graves, but I would just as soon give those minutes next year to Kevin Bahl or Nikita Okhotyuk -- the Devils are still rebuilding and it is not as if Graves is leading the Devils into contention.

That being said, I do not dislike the deal either. The Devils have been far too soft and easy to play against for years, and Graves will help alter this. He brings some power, size and experience to the blueline. I like Maltsev, but he's expendable -- the Devils have a 4th line center for the foreseeable future in Mikey McLeod, and several bottom-6 forward options in the prospect pool. I wish Maltsev the best in Colorado. And I look forward to seeing Ryan Graves in a Devils jersey.

You're analysis of Graves is contrary to everything Avs fans are saying. Hes apparently not overly physical and is definitely not a stay at home defender

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think trading 2nds was the issue, more we didn't do well with the guys we got back.

Palms, Hall, and Marjo were the only guys we traded for picks that returned anything of value.

If Mueller or Goose don't crap out and became valueless things are maybe different.

Why I don't like the idea of losing Subban for free.

 

[Forge]

However, I will say it feels a bit much for the Devils to give up. I know I'm a draft guy, but I feel a big reason for the Devils running in place a bit during the rebuild has been a constant penchant for trading away 2nd round draft picks. To me, 2nd round picks are extremely valuable, and the best teams tend to often hit on them. Nikita Kucherov certainly comes to mind -- but the second round is generally a great round to draft very good defensemen. I like Graves, but I would just as soon give those minutes next year to Kevin Bahl or Nikita Okhotyuk -- the Devils are still rebuilding and it is not as if Graves is leading the Devils into contention.

This is kind of where you lose me because I think that the reality of what becomes of second round picks is being overstated. How often are you actually getting a player better than what Graves is right now? I'm talking consistent top 4 defender, top 6 forward for years? I think the reality of what you get from a second round pick is quite different than the expectations a lot of people have regarding them.

It's a little too early to evaluate some of the more recent drafts, but go back and look at the second round at a lot of those drafts. Not a lot of times when it happens to be honest. Using that 2011 draft with Kucherov as an example...it's basically him and Saad who have been the only consistent top 6 guys. Karlsson would make three, but lets be real...it took him 7 years, 3 teams and hitting age 25 to break out. Odds are you're not holding on to a guy that long (as seen by the fact that he was on his third team), so his inclusion in there is kind of hollow. Jenner is a solid middle six guy from jump, then you have Gibson in goal and Mayfield as a late bloomer on D. I'd consider a guy like Edmundson on par with a guy like Graves.

In 2012, the best player is probably Sevs without much else. 2010 was Faulk, Toffoli, Zucker. 2009 was solid; Tatar, ROR, Silvferberg up front with Dumoulin in the back and Lehner in goal (you can maybe include Orlov, I was kind of 50/50 on that). 2013? Bertuzzi could legitimately be the only guy that would I would throw into the conversation. 2014 had Demko & Dvorak.

2015 would be a big year for second round picks. Lots of really good players in that one but that was also an atypically strong draft from jump in most people's opinion. In 2016, right now we are a stage that is in line with 2010-2014, though I think that there is still quite a bit of time for some of these guys, so certainly not a finished situation yet. But Hart in goal, Hronek and Girard on D obviously are doing extremely well along with Debrincat, and I think Kyrou is on his way to being a consistent top 6 forward maybe. After that, unless I'm missing someone, I think the others are going to require a little bit of a jump (and yes, that includes Kuokkanen).

On the flip side, go back and look at how many of those picks just flat out didn't make it, or played some very nominal amount of games. In 2009, over half the round played less than 100 games. In 2010 it was just less than half. Etc etc.

You can find a lot of quality players in round 2, a lot of guys who are similar to graves who are solid NHL players, but you're not often breaking the bank. Acquiring Graves at that cost is basically just taking the (considerable) risk out of it in my opinion, while capping your ceiling as you know what you're getting. There's no variance (which isn't to say that you should be trading your second round pick every year but you also can't evaluate a single trade based on previous actions either).

Tl;dr

Second round picks don't hit big enough, often enough to be extremely valuable

 

[Eggtimer]

You're analysis of Graves is contrary to everything Avs fans are saying. Hes apparently not overly physical and is definitely not a stay at home defender

He was their whipping boy. NHL.com showed stats on how Graves was top 10 in PK icetime, blocks , led the Avs in hits ( or second ) blocked shots , etc etc,
I do t take what Avs fans say with any certainty . Stats and what I have seen shows he does hit and logs tons of icetime on the Pk .

 

[TheUnseenHand]

He was their whipping boy. NHL.com showed stats on how Graves was top 10 in PK icetime, blocks , led the Avs in hits ( or second ) blocked shots , etc etc,
I do t take what Avs fans say with any certainty . Stats and what I have seen shows he does hit and logs tons of icetime on the Pk .

Yeah makes sense. Look at the stat sheet and throw out the opinions of a group that literally watched every minute he played last season...

As usual, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as bad as the Colorado fans are making him out to be and the stats are probably flattering relative to actual on ice impact.

 

[TrufleShufle]

if you are going to point to Blake Coleman's acquisition because of "grit", you're just out to lunch tbh. Blake Coleman is an analytic darling...he is a tremendous 5 on 5 player that can also play on the penalty kill

Listen to the Cooper interview on Spittin Chiclets, the guys they acquired and the reason they got them goes against your narrative. In no way am I disputing that Tampa likes analytics nor that Coleman is an "analytic darling." But the way he explained it, the reason was closer to what you "hate to see people keep saying," than anything to do with analytics.

This is where you say "I don't care what Cooper has to say about X because of Y."

 

[Hisch13r]

Listen to the Cooper interview on Spittin Chiclets, the guys they acquired and the reason they got them goes against your narrative. In no way am I disputing that Tampa likes analytics nor that Coleman is an "analytic darling." But the way he explained it, the reason was closer to what you "hate to see people keep saying," than anything to do with analytics.

This is where you say "I don't care what Cooper has to say about X because of Y."

That doesn’t disprove anything. That’s why they got the Coleman type of gritty player but they got ones that can play as well rather say a Reaves

 

[Triumph]

Yeah makes sense. Look at the stat sheet and throw out the opinions of a group that literally watched every minute he played last season...

As usual, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as bad as the Colorado fans are making him out to be and the stats are probably flattering relative to actual on ice impact.

As a rule, fans like forwards and dislike defensemen. They like forwards because they score goals and they dislike defensemen because they are 'responsible' for goals against. Occasionally a defensive defenseman pushes through and becomes respected by a fanbase, but that is rare. Look at the hate Colin White gets on here - White was a solid shot-suppressing defenseman for a decade save for the year when he returned from the eye injury. He wasn't very good, but he certainly wasn't very bad. Just average to below-average.

I don't think Graves is particularly good, but the median for an average-ish defenseman is 'frustrating'.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I mean...not something to be mad about but not something to be excited about either.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The best part about the Graves move is that it will likely satisfy Fitz’s size mandate which lessons the likelihood of Risto

I have a suspicion that after the expansion draft we're going to swap Butcher for Ristolainen straight up, which I wouldn't be thrilled with.

 

[beekay414]

Fine, we'll go with Graveser then

Long live Graves Digger!