Development of Players Once They Reach NHL

[Rebels57]

The only way to play well is to play often. Only a complete braindead moron wouldnt understand that.

 

[deadhead]

Repeating the same mistakes over and over doesn't improve skill.
Letting some one do so more times a game doesn't necessarily accelerate their development.

There's also situational issues, Calgary was targeting the Patrick line, putting their best line on the ice against them. So you're the head coach, if the opposing coach has identified Konecny and Patrick as your two weak links defensively, do you:
1) split them up and weaken two lines
2) play them together and hope they score enough to make up for poor defense.
3) limit their minutes in a key game

It would be interesting to see a home/away breakdown of the PT of some of the young players.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not playing at all doesn't let you learn how to avoid your mistakes. It gives no chance for improvement.

For someone who claims not to be defending Hakstol you defend him a lot.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Repeating the same mistakes over and over doesn't improve skill.
Letting some one do so more times a game doesn't necessarily accelerate their development.

There's also situational issues, Calgary was targeting the Patrick line, putting their best line on the ice against them. So you're the head coach, if the opposing coach has identified Konecny and Patrick as your two weak links defensively, do you:
1) split them up and weaken two lines
2) play them together and hope they score enough to make up for poor defense.
3) limit their minutes in a key game

It would be interesting to see a home/away breakdown of the PT of some of the young players.

You're hopeless. The coach practically buries these kids but it's their fault. They can't get better if they don't play, but they don't play because they aren't good enough in the head moron's eyes.

He's done everything he can to bury these kids and offers NOTHING on how they can improve. No coaching. No nothing. And where are the assistants? They should be providing guidance and instruction as well. These kids are badly lost with what Hakstol is trying to 'teach'. These are incredibly talented players who have shown they can play, so how did they become inept all of a sudden?

 

[deadhead]

Patrick, when healthy, is a very talented player, "incredibly", uh, I think that refers to McDavid et al.
Sanheim is a talented player but he went #17, he isn't exactly a sure thing.

I can get enthusiastic about our prospects but a little reality check, we have a bunch of good prospects who will take years to turn into solid NHL players, and a number will be "fails." But most are closer to Laughton than Couts and Giroux.

Provorov and Patrick are the only two top talents in our system.
If we're really, really lucky, maybe Hart and Frost turn out to be steals.
And if the hockey Gods smile upon us, players like Allison, Rubtsov, Bunnaman and Ratcliffe all become solid starters.

 

[BillDineen]

"Development of Players Once They Reach NHL".......

What do you mean once they reach NHL?

Once they reach (the) NHL. From when they arrive as a rookie until they are a finished product.

 

[Magua]

Once they reach (the) NHL. From when they arrive as a rookie until they are a finished product.

Was a joke that their development sucks at the AHL level too. It wasn't an especially clear joke

 

[BillDineen]

Was a joke that their development sucks at the AHL level too. It wasn't an especially clear joke

Sorry. You are right.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I tend to think vets make mistakes that young players would get vilified for.

But I had no problem with Hakstol severely limiting Patrick's & Konecny's minutes in a game they led & HAD to win.

Patrick has done nothing in his NHL career to earn important minutes yet. He looks to be at half speed; opponents target his line; the ice often seems tilted against the Flyers when he's out there; & he made two unnecessarily risky passes backward toward his offensive blue line leading to opposition goals in his last two games. Weise may be at fault, too, but any coach will tell you those are bad plays for the very reason they are high risk low reward.

Konecny has made a litany of bad decisions & turnovers leading to goals against in his short career. The kind of plays that lead to quick-strike, backbreaking goals.

I love young talent & retain high hopes for both, but as much as coaches may make excuses for vets, many posters also make excuses for the kids.

I think Hakstol was right to limit Patrick & Konecny under the circumstances.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And when they're always limited and cannot improve? What then?

 

[Striiker]

So let's pretend the kids are as bad as the exaggerations make them seem. They aren't, but let's pretend.

Ok, so then what's the plan? Put them together or with even worse players? What is that accomplishing? It isn't helping them perform better. It isn't helping them become better players. It doesn't help the team win.

If you want to maximize their positives and minimize their negatives then you need to be even more careful with how they're used. That means recognizing specifically what they're good at and bad at. Then putting them with people that either take advantage of their skills or people who compensate for their weaknesses.

The young players desperately need a reliable (not Hagg-style "reliable", Couturier-style reliable) veteran presence with them. Not to be tossed together, plus a two-legged horse, or handcuffed to a mangy Mutt.

Hmmm... Patrick's not too quick right now and he has a great shot... might be good to put him with a great possession winger who can skate and pass the puck. Voracek fits that description...

Konecny needs to be with a calming influence... maybe someone who's big and strong, great defensively, and a great posssion center. If only we had one of those.... oh yeah, Couturier!

If I were to try my very hardest to put them in the worst possible position, where success is basically impossible, I'd probably use them almost exactly how Hakstol is using the three of them right now.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I got Patrick around 30 points if he plays most of the year. I don't think he challenges for the Calder even if healthy. I wouldn't be surprised if Lindblom outscores him given that he should see more scoring opportunities.

That's most conservative expectation from preseason by LegionOfDoom91. Patrick is roughly on same pace as perennial target of flyers fanbase ridicule Pavel Zacha in his rookie year, while sporting -10 corsi for %.

Can't wait to see his play once that vaunted hakstols youth development comes through.

 

[Magua]

That's most conservative expectation from preseason by LegionOfDoom91. Patrick is roughly on same pace as perennial target of flyers fanbase ridicule Pavel Zacha in his rookie year, while sporting -10 corsi for %.

Can't wait to see his play once that vaunted hakstols youth development comes through.

He's still pacing for just under 30, and there's time to get that more in the 30-35 range. I actually think a lot of people pegged him for there realistically. The issue isn't scoring because that's a team issue too and he's still not far off expectation. It's his overall play. Which to be fair also goes back to injury, linemates (to some extent), and a general lack of confidence. No Flyers prospect gives me the impression they are playing loose and "their" game. It's all uptight, nervous, conservative. They look like they enjoy hockey as much as a flagellant enjoys......well, flagellating!

Really the only thing to get him back on track is the tried and true Hakstok method of scratching him several games.

 

[Harhis]

I tend to think vets make mistakes that young players would get vilified for.

But I had no problem with Hakstol severely limiting Patrick's & Konecny's minutes in a game they led & HAD to win.

Patrick has done nothing in his NHL career to earn important minutes yet. He looks to be at half speed; opponents target his line; the ice often seems tilted against the Flyers when he's out there; & he made two unnecessarily risky passes backward toward his offensive blue line leading to opposition goals in his last two games. Weise may be at fault, too, but any coach will tell you those are bad plays for the very reason they are high risk low reward.

Konecny has made a litany of bad decisions & turnovers leading to goals against in his short career. The kind of plays that lead to quick-strike, backbreaking goals.

I love young talent & retain high hopes for both, but as much as coaches may make excuses for vets, many posters also make excuses for the kids.

I think Hakstol was right to limit Patrick & Konecny under the circumstances.

The problem is that so has Lehterä, Weise, Read and everybody else. If Hex and Hak think they are liabilities then play them somewhere else. I just cant see it being good thing for any young player to be playing 10mins a night.

Edit. And the way that 10 minutes is given. (Play 1st period, little 2nd and sit 3rd

 

[deadhead]

Focusing too much on the last few games, now that they've won a game, I expect the rotation to become more "normal."
It's not uncommon for young players to get more PT as they improve as the season progresses.
And a lot of learning for young players come in practice (except for Iverson, of course).

Much ado about nothing, Patrick will pick up his game the second half as he gets stronger and more confident, and that will lead to more PT.
Same with Sanheim, he's still making mistakes, but less frequently, and his PT will increase.
Konecny will decide his PT, if he wants a bigger role, bring the same intensity to protecting his D-zone that he does in the O-zone.
And at some point, a couple of the AHL kids will be promoted.

Odds are Simmonds and Manning won't be here come February. Filppula may be flipped. They could retain salary and move MacDonald.
Morin may be packaged in a deal for a RHD (at some point a LHD needs to be moved unless Sanheim or Ghost are willing/able to play RHD at a high level)

There are lots of possibilities, I doubt the team in April will be the same one we're seeing now.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm pretty sure I said it would be a solid season for Patrick if he played 75 games and had 35 points. I'd happily take 70/30 at this point. His possession struggles can't all be blamed on the coach or his linemates, but I don't think it will be an issue with him in the long term.

 

[FlyersMania2]

You're hopeless. The coach practically buries these kids but it's their fault. They can't get better if they don't play, but they don't play because they aren't good enough in the head moron's eyes.

He's done everything he can to bury these kids and offers NOTHING on how they can improve. No coaching. No nothing. And where are the assistants? They should be providing guidance and instruction as well. These kids are badly lost with what Hakstol is trying to 'teach'. These are incredibly talented players who have shown they can play, so how did they become inept all of a sudden?

YES! How many players are going to digress under this coach? Players who can score elsewhere or had offense going here in previous years are suddenly unable to find their game? Like ALL of them? I don't think so. It's pretty simple - what's the common denominator here, it's Hakstol. Same coach, different lines, different defensemen, different goalie, etc, etc, etc and we still protect the one goal deficit, are always outshot and dress the same incapable few players while other, better options are in our very system. Thank god Provorov is like a cockroach - able to survive in a climate that kills all other young talent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm pretty sure I said it would be a solid season for Patrick if he played 75 games and had 35 points. I'd happily take 70/30 at this point. His possession struggles can't all be blamed on the coach or his linemates, but I don't think it will be an issue with him in the long term.

I believe 26.1 points is the average draft-year contribution for a #2 pick forward going back to the beginning of the Cap Era

 

[deadhead]

I predict that Patrick is going to explode on the scene next year.
With a summer to get into shape and hit the weight room, I see a faster, stronger more explosive player next year, putting up 60-70 points.
When you look at what he did in juniors at 17, when he was healthy, it's obvious we're only seeing a shadow of his talent right now.

Right now he just looks slow and tentative, but this spring as he gets stronger, he should start flashing his abilities more often.
But he really needs that full summer of conditioning and strength training, he's got the frame to carry 210+ lbs and be a force, he was an above average skater in junior and should become more explosive as he adds strength - that isn't the player we're seeing right now.

 

[FlyersMania2]

I predict that Patrick is going to explode on the scene next year.
With a summer to get into shape and hit the weight room, I see a faster, stronger more explosive player next year, putting up 60-70 points.
When you look at what he did in juniors at 17, when he was healthy, it's obvious we're only seeing a shadow of his talent right now.

Right now he just looks slow and tentative, but this spring as he gets stronger, he should start flashing his abilities more often.
But he really needs that full summer of conditioning and strength training, he's got the frame to carry 210+ lbs and be a force, he was an above average skater in junior and should become more explosive as he adds strength - that isn't the player we're seeing right now.

You're able to deduct all of that from his brief time on the ice? Maybe he's a little banged up but pretty sure if he had more minutes and we had more creative plays, he would take full advantage

 

[hatcher]

Recent Devils trade should open Ron Hextall's eyes
Don't know if this was posted but man is it true. We couldn't of traded for Hall but the rest would have made us better.

 

[deadhead]

I've covered this, most of the moves that have improved them this year were signing older veterans, some street free agents, Nico, and Bratt coming out of nowhere.
Those trades actually have had little impact so far.

 

[Rebels57]

Its hard to judge any of these guys until they have an NHL level head coach.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I tend to think vets make mistakes that young players would get vilified for.

But I had no problem with Hakstol severely limiting Patrick's & Konecny's minutes in a game they led & HAD to win.

Patrick has done nothing in his NHL career to earn important minutes yet. He looks to be at half speed; opponents target his line; the ice often seems tilted against the Flyers when he's out there; & he made two unnecessarily risky passes backward toward his offensive blue line leading to opposition goals in his last two games. Weise may be at fault, too, but any coach will tell you those are bad plays for the very reason they are high risk low reward.

Konecny has made a litany of bad decisions & turnovers leading to goals against in his short career. The kind of plays that lead to quick-strike, backbreaking goals.

I love young talent & retain high hopes for both, but as much as coaches may make excuses for vets, many posters also make excuses for the kids.

I think Hakstol was right to limit Patrick & Konecny under the circumstances.

The problem is that Filpulla and Weise are making similar mistakes but it's a double standard.

It's slightly more understandable with Patrick and Konecny, but the Sanheim situation is the flagrant one. Manning and Hagg are making mistakes all over the place

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The only prospects that Hextall's regime has successfully developed so far has been the ones tracked fastest to big minutes in the NHL (Ghost\Provorov).

It's too early to say that this tough love\confidence draining developing tactic won't work, but I'm becoming very skeptical.