Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings #6 Overall Pick - Part Deux

The Zetterberg Era

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their next contracts will have to eat some UFA years. I think we're looking at least at $5m per - if they keep up their current production. Bert would probably be a bit cheaper, but he's also the kind of guy I can see a GM spending stupidly on as a UFA.

With the cap going up, those might not be the worst numbers, but at the same time what could we get in a trade that might be cheaper and fit a younger group coming in behind them? In a way, dealing them of makes a lot of sense.

Here is a did Yzerman learn something in Tampa moment. I like these guys, but does he give them the deals he gave Johnson, Palat and Killorn.... I mean they aren't awful contracts, but the were eventually supplanted by better talents. Not always apples to apples, but I do kind of wonder in terms of how he will view AA, Mantha and Bert in their next deal. Holland did him a solid with Larkin being what he is though in terms of hopefully keeping these down somewhat.
 

NickH8

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Jul 3, 2015
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This is an easy projection

Our future forward core is on average age:

Mantha, 24
Betuzzi, 24
Athanasiou, 24
Larkin, 22
Hirose, 22
Svechnikov, 22
Rasmussen, 20
Zadina, 19
Veleno, 19

That's the offensive TOP9 (10 players, some will fail, some will be dropped out because of future picks) core already. Average age of that is:
~21.8 years

Defence:

Bowey, 24
Cholowski, 21
Hronek, 21
Lindström, 20
McIsaac, 19

That's the defensive kid core. Not sure about Bowey being anymore than 3rd pair guy, than Average age from defensive kid core is:
21.0 years.

Offence: 21.8 years_avg
Defence: 21.0 years_avg

Offence with Cozens/Dach/Turcotte/Krebs: 21.3y_avg
Defence with Byram: 20.0 years

So our offence kid core is almost year older than defensive kid core. Getting a guy like Byram from next draft, will push this gap even bigger, on wrong direction.
Defence should be 2-3 years older than offensive core on a balanced team, to peak at same time. Because defencemen will take time to develop oon reliable level, more than forwards. It's just a law on hockey.

If you draft Byram, him being currently 17-year old and almost a decade away from his prime, would push that Defensive kid core average to 20.0. So difference to forward core would grow to almost 2 years.

That's hos many bad teams are built. Strong offence and young mistake-making defence. High-scoring game. Will lead to high foward caphits, because of high-scoring games.

Good cap-controlled are build balanced, because good and not in-experienced defence will keep scoring totals low. Then forward caphits won't accelerate on your hands. That's how long-term winning teams should be built in a cap world.

Yzerman did built Tampa quite perfect way on age distribution. And all the time he favored a veteran defence. Hedman is 28 and that defence core in general is a lot older and experienced, than their offensive core. Kucherov is 25 and on his peak. Hedman is 28 and on his peak. Stamkos has already regressed and is the 2nd best forward at 29 year old. That haven't won anything but it's still the best core which just need some finetuning for playoff hockey, against different styled teams.

In our case, when Byram is "Hedman", it's 11 years after, and that defensive core would be 28 on average 8 years after, then Byram is 25.

So if we draft Byram now to be our 1st D, we should expect that when he and our team is in prime, our forward core is some guys of drafts 2021-24 coming. Some current undrafted 13-15-year olds. If we want to wait that long. Larkin would be 32-year old, Mantha/Bertuzzi 34-olds. Regressing already. Totally mismatched primes.

But we won't have to wait that long, because Yzerman is best at his job. We can keep drafting forwards and trade for a proven defencemen, because those are available on the market all the time. That's the Plan A. Byram's could be Plan B, if he is there.

Drouin for Sergachev, even some matured prospects are available. Karlsson is there, Hamonic was traded, Trouba-rumors, Faulk-rumors. Seth Jones was traded, when Columbus had a forward logjam. They let their 1st line center go and drafted a new kid Dubois, because forward kids will reach their potentials usually faster. Now Jones-prime matches better with Dubois-prime than Werenski would have matched with Johansen-prime. Burns was traded, Suter left Nashville, etc. Those things happen, for various reasons. The market is always there. Just wait for the right fish and Yzerman pulls the trigger.

Trouba could be that fish.

So offence without Byram, with new 2019 center forward + a trade where Athanasiou and Cholowski go for Trouba:

Offence: 21.8 years_avg
Offence with Cozens/Dach/Turcotte/Krebs and without Athanasiou: 21.02 years_avg

Defence with Trouba and without Cholowski/Byram: 21.83 years_avg

With those groups future defence core would be 0.81 years older than offense. Then we would be on the right way to right balance.
This is over analysis if I've ever seen it, no offense.
We need an elite defender, and Byram could be an opportunity to get one for free. We can make it work around that.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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This is over analysis if I've ever seen it, no offense.
We need an elite defender, and Byram could be an opportunity to get one for free. We can make it work around that.

2003, you know the one widely regarded as one of the best drafts in the history of hockey is the last time a D-man wasn't picked in the top 5. People can keep championing picking Byram, but it is extremely unlikely he drops to there. I mean it hasn't happened since U of M won the B1G in football, that is a really really really long time ago.:laugh:
 
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NickH8

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2003, you know the one widely regarded as one of the best drafts in the history of hockey is the last time a D-man wasn't picked in the top 5. People can keep championing picking Byram, but it is extremely unlikely he drops to there. I mean it hasn't happened since U of M won the B1G in football, that is a really really really long time ago.:laugh:
Oh I know, but if he falls to us we shouldn't pass him up.
 
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Zetterberg4Captain

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2003, you know the one widely regarded as one of the best drafts in the history of hockey is the last time a D-man wasn't picked in the top 5. People can keep championing picking Byram, but it is extremely unlikely he drops to there. I mean it hasn't happened since U of M won the B1G in football, that is a really really really long time ago.:laugh:

I think Chicago and Colorado pass on him
 

Christien

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May 1, 2010
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If Podkolzin (and I even think there's a really really small chance of Caufield) goes before we pick, we're in good shape. Even if they don't go, we're still good.
 

lilidk

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Krebs really proved himself at the U-18s. I would be very happy if they took him at 6.

Some of the others, I'd still be pretty upset. I still think there's no reason to take a winger.
He is exactly what wings need , puck possession, leadership and defensive play, I highly doubt that Byram w be available when we draft
 

obey86

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This is over analysis if I've ever seen it, no offense.
We need an elite defender, and Byram could be an opportunity to get one for free. We can make it work around that.

Yeah no kidding. The Wings need good players, centers and defensemen. If we start worrying about a defensemen being a couple years too young or whatever to fit in with the core we're just going to screw ourselves out of drafting good players, which will ultimately not be helpful in making this team competitive again.
 

Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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Hoping you guys pick up Byram. AJ Haefele and Adrian Dater, both of who cover the Avs, have indicated that the Avs are selecting Turcotte if available, and, if not, Kirby Dach. Dater indicated that he heard the Avs want Turcotte first. I don't know that you can take it as gospel, but that it what they said this week. I am sure that it can always change.

From Haefele, it doesn't sound like Podkolzin will be in the mix for the Avs and the Avs may not be as high on Cozens. The Avs have not taken a Russian player higher than the 3rd round in 15 years (last one was in the 3rd round, Parshin, and he never crossed the pond) Picking Podkolzin would also involve the Avs picking against need (by not taking a center) and selecting a player where they have recent first round picks (right wings - Rantanen 2015 - 10th overall; Martin Kaut - 2018 -16th overall).
 

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Hoping you guys pick up Byram. AJ Haefele and Adrian Dater, both of who cover the Avs, have indicated that the Avs are selecting Turcotte if available, and, if not, Kirby Dach. Dater indicated that he heard the Avs want Turcotte first. I don't know that you can take it as gospel, but that it what they said this week. I am sure that it can always change.

From Haefele, it doesn't sound like Podkolzin will be in the mix for the Avs and the Avs may not be as high on Cozens. The Avs have not taken a Russian player higher than the 3rd round in 15 years (last one was in the 3rd round, Parshin, and he never crossed the pond) Picking Podkolzin would also involve the Avs picking against need (by not taking a center) and selecting a player where they have recent first round picks (right wings - Rantanen 2015 - 10th overall; Martin Kaut - 2018 -16th overall).

Dater has been an Avs writer for a long time.. Do you think hes connected enough to have that kind of inside info? Or that he would leak it even if he did?
 

Goulet17

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Dater has been an Avs writer for a long time.. Do you think hes connected enough to have that kind of inside info? Or that he would leak it even if he did?

Haefele and Dater are around the organization a lot with BSN Avalanche. I know that they have inside information, but it is difficult to tell how accurate they could be with this information around two months prior to the draft. I know that they were hinting that Makar would be the pick in 2017 roughly 10 days or so prior to the draft and prior to McKenzie's final list coming out, which had Makar ranked fourth.

It is difficult to imagine the Avs selecting Podkolzin, due to at at least five factors. The Avs have not liked waiting on prospects in recent years and have tried to sign them immediately and have them play in the NHL or at least the AHL. Center is a major organizational need for the Avs and they have the opportunity to grab a good center prospect with the 4th.
 

ManwithNoIdentity

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Hoping you guys pick up Byram. AJ Haefele and Adrian Dater, both of who cover the Avs, have indicated that the Avs are selecting Turcotte if available, and, if not, Kirby Dach. Dater indicated that he heard the Avs want Turcotte first. I don't know that you can take it as gospel, but that it what they said this week. I am sure that it can always change.

From Haefele, it doesn't sound like Podkolzin will be in the mix for the Avs and the Avs may not be as high on Cozens. The Avs have not taken a Russian player higher than the 3rd round in 15 years (last one was in the 3rd round, Parshin, and he never crossed the pond) Picking Podkolzin would also involve the Avs picking against need (by not taking a center) and selecting a player where they have recent first round picks (right wings - Rantanen 2015 - 10th overall; Martin Kaut - 2018 -16th overall).


He’ll he gone by #3 I’m guessing sadly
 

lilidk

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After u18 tournament I think Boldly,Caulfield and Krebs going to improve their mock draft stendings
 

Frk It

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I have been on the Cozens is a top 5 player wagon all year, and I am still there. I love the way that kid projects, I think there is a lot of room for improvement.

Kind of hoping for Cozens, Dach, or Byram... I just think they bring different elements to the table and have nice upside. Turcotte and Krebs would be cool too. That is about as short of a shortlist as I can make with these guys in the 3-10 range. Very tough group of guys to stack and evaluate.
 
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JLT

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Here were Turcotte's highlights from the U18 IIHF World Championships...
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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my 3-7 tier has just about expanded to a 3-8 to include Krebs at this point

he's still by no means my favorite guy on that list but I don't think i'd mind the Wings taking him anymore
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I really don't know if it would be that crazy to take Cam York at #6.... I do like him a lot.

If they walked up and drafted York or Broberg, I would sort of get it. It just means we were really high on them, I still expect a forward, I would hope to drop a bit if we are going the York and Broberg route, find a way to get another pick and more trade leverage to move back up at some point in the first round along with I assume the first rounder for dropping back to go D.

I think people would be nervous. Stevie has a lot of capital in the bank though if he wants to be bold and maybe take a big swing for two assets, not sure he would trust our scouts that way in his first draft though, should be interesting to see this unfold.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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I have been on the Cozens is a top 5 player wagon all year, and I am still there. I love the way that kid projects, I think there is a lot of room for improvement.

Kind of hoping for Cozens, Dach, or Byram... I just think they bring different elements to the table and have nice upside. Turcotte and Krebs would be cool too. That is about as short of a shortlist as I can make with these guys in the 3-10 range. Very tough group of guys to stack and evaluate.

The right-handed center element is very important for me too in terms of those two.
 

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