Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] Tyler Bertuzzi re-signs with the Red Wings (1 year, $3.5M) - Arbitration Award

[ijuka]

Dunno, pretty cheap to me.

 

[Stickpucker]

Arbitrator must be a DRW fan.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Great deal for Detroit, Even a one year deal at Bertuzzi's $4.25 mil would've been a bargain.

 

[Henkka]

A statement.

 

[njx9]

Never like going to arbitration with a player you value, where you have to essentially tell them exactly why they aren't anywhere near as good as they think they are. Especially over essentially no money on a one year deal for a team with less than no cap issues. I guess we'll see if Yzerman gives him a longer extension next year, but it sure smells like a signal that the organization doesn't see him as a long term piece.

 

[Adityase]

Never like going to arbitration with a player you value, where you have to essentially tell them exactly why they aren't anywhere near as good as they think they are. Especially over essentially no money on a one year deal for a team with less than no cap issues. I guess we'll see if Yzerman gives him a longer extension next year, but it sure smells like a signal that the organization doesn't see him as a long term piece.

I think it's more of a signal that Yzerman doesn't treat contract negotiations and player value/salary the same as Holland did. Not personal to the player. Then again, I think Bert knew that which is why he elected arbitration himself. That said, with the cap crunch and Covid, I'm not sure why anyone feels they can know anything with certainty when reading into this. It's a unique year.

 

[MBH]

Even if I signed a six-year deal, I'd play every game like I was on a one-year deal.

 

[The Red Line]

Yzerman clearly doesn't see him as a key player. And he might be right. Bertuzzi has been riding the coattails of two vastly more talented linemates.

Wow in a thread full of bad takes, this is the worst one by far.

You just lost the internet, congrats.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Never like going to arbitration with a player you value, where you have to essentially tell them exactly why they aren't anywhere near as good as they think they are. Especially over essentially no money on a one year deal for a team with less than no cap issues. I guess we'll see if Yzerman gives him a longer extension next year, but it sure smells like a signal that the organization doesn't see him as a long term piece.

The whole thing is that Yzerman views negotiations very analytically and seems to play with a strong hand as agents have learned they can't "panic" him into dropping more on a player than he wants to go. A lot of times, if a guy is coveted or wanted by someone else, they'll float a third party to say "If you don't sign me, I'll go to X other place for Y more money." Yzerman knows his hand, so he calls their bluff.

Tyler wanted to get 4-4.25m. Contract negotiations showed that wasn't going to happen, so he went to arb as his shot at it. His comparables probably put him at 3.5-3.75, and he hoped to make up the extra 500k by going through the process.

I mean, Yzerman in the arbitration hearing isn't gonna say "Tyler is dogshit and we don't like him and he smells bad". He will just say the things that Bertuzzi needs to work on to be better that make him not worth his asking price. Bertuzzi will say all of the good things he's done (fluky or not) to go after that raise. This is literally no different than going to your boss to try to get a raise at work above their discretion.

 

[deca guard]

unlike ! wanted tuzzi signed for 6 years at around 5+ per

 

[Perennial]

Does the arbiter take into account the league's cap situation during these hearings, or would they just focus on comparable players to determine Bertuzzi's worth?

 

[Adityase]

Does the arbiter take into account the league's cap situation during these hearings, or would they just focus on comparable players to determine Bertuzzi's worth?

Seems like they went with the low end of the comparable range. Basing that on what I've read about it, not that I've scrutinized comparable salaries myself.

 

[Sentinel]

Excellent.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Why do I feel like him and Brendan Lemieux are the same player

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Why do I feel like him and Brendan Lemieux are the same player

Not sure, considering Bert had more points in a shortened season than Lemieux has in his entire career...

 

[nbwingsfan]

Why do I feel like him and Brendan Lemieux are the same player

Other than Bert being a vastly better offensive player, yeah basically the same...

 

[Peter Tosh]

Why do I feel like him and Brendan Lemieux are the same player

Cuz both of them share names with more successful and famous players who played 15-20 years ago

 

[njx9]

I mean, Yzerman in the arbitration hearing isn't gonna say "Tyler is dogshit and we don't like him and he smells bad". He will just say the things that Bertuzzi needs to work on to be better that make him not worth his asking price. Bertuzzi will say all of the good things he's done (fluky or not) to go after that raise. This is literally no different than going to your boss to try to get a raise at work above their discretion.

I very, very much hope you're right - I just want to preface this. I want to believe that Yzerman is a good, above-board dude, and that I'm just (as usual) a terrible pessimist. That said...

I don't think it's quite like asking your boss for a raise, since in that case, if your boss tells you you suck (or even makes you feel slightly undervalued), you always have the immediate option of leaving/finding new employment, etc. In this case, Bert has no choice, and doesn't really even have a choice *next* year as he's still an RFA (unless I'm completely illiterate). It's entirely possible that Yzerman's a good dude, and just laid out the "this is what we think he really is" case to the arbitrator, but it's in his interest to downplay Bert's strengths as much as possible, and emphasize his weaknesses as much as possible, because both will go towards the arbitrator valuing the contract lower.

But even in the case where he isn't completely cutthroat in the process, you're still essentially telling a player why you think they're worth less than they think they are in a very formal process. It's not great. Going to arbitration with a dude demanding $10m when he's a $5m player makes sense to me, but going in on a $4.5m player when you have no real cap issues just seems like a weird way to negotiate. Moreso given that it was, unless I missed something, Bert's choice to go to arbitration, which sort of tells me how poorly he felt about the Wings offer before they had to argue that he wasn't good enough for more.

 

[TS Quint]

I don’t understand any of these Yzerman takes. This wasn’t a case of Yzerman negotiating hard or how Yzerman views Bert’s position on the team.

The arbitrator showed that Bert/his agent were out to lunch on Bert’s value. That’s it.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I very, very much hope you're right - I just want to preface this. I want to believe that Yzerman is a good, above-board dude, and that I'm just (as usual) a terrible pessimist. That said...

I don't think it's quite like asking your boss for a raise, since in that case, if your boss tells you you suck (or even makes you feel slightly undervalued), you always have the immediate option of leaving/finding new employment, etc. In this case, Bert has no choice, and doesn't really even have a choice *next* year as he's still an RFA (unless I'm completely illiterate). It's entirely possible that Yzerman's a good dude, and just laid out the "this is what we think he really is" case to the arbitrator, but it's in his interest to downplay Bert's strengths as much as possible, and emphasize his weaknesses as much as possible, because both will go towards the arbitrator valuing the contract lower.

But even in the case where he isn't completely cutthroat in the process, you're still essentially telling a player why you think they're worth less than they think they are in a very formal process. It's not great. Going to arbitration with a dude demanding $10m when he's a $5m player makes sense to me, but going in on a $4.5m player when you have no real cap issues just seems like a weird way to negotiate. Moreso given that it was, unless I missed something, Bert's choice to go to arbitration, which sort of tells me how poorly he felt about the Wings offer before they had to argue that he wasn't good enough for more.

I don’t agree with that last paragraph at all.

I think it is as simple as Bertuzzi and his agent thought they could get 4M. But due to Covid locking the cap the next three years, Detroit wasn’t wanting to do that unless Bert signed 6-7 years.

I don’t think going to arbitration in this year is indicative of bad negotiations... just “you want 4 million from Detroit? Here is what you’ll have to do

 

[TS Quint]

I very, very much hope you're right - I just want to preface this. I want to believe that Yzerman is a good, above-board dude, and that I'm just (as usual) a terrible pessimist. That said...

I don't think it's quite like asking your boss for a raise, since in that case, if your boss tells you you suck (or even makes you feel slightly undervalued), you always have the immediate option of leaving/finding new employment, etc. In this case, Bert has no choice, and doesn't really even have a choice *next* year as he's still an RFA (unless I'm completely illiterate). It's entirely possible that Yzerman's a good dude, and just laid out the "this is what we think he really is" case to the arbitrator, but it's in his interest to downplay Bert's strengths as much as possible, and emphasize his weaknesses as much as possible, because both will go towards the arbitrator valuing the contract lower.

But even in the case where he isn't completely cutthroat in the process, you're still essentially telling a player why you think they're worth less than they think they are in a very formal process. It's not great. Going to arbitration with a dude demanding $10m when he's a $5m player makes sense to me, but going in on a $4.5m player when you have no real cap issues just seems like a weird way to negotiate. Moreso given that it was, unless I missed something, Bert's choice to go to arbitration, which sort of tells me how poorly he felt about the Wings offer before they had to argue that he wasn't good enough for more.

Holland is gone, average to good (Maybe less) players aren’t getting overpaid any more. Bert was out to lunch by A LOT. This wasn’t a small gap.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I don’t understand any of these Yzerman takes. This wasn’t a case of Yzerman negotiating hard or how Yzerman views Bert’s position on the team.

The arbitrator showed that Bert/his agent were out to lunch on Bert’s value. That’s it.

out to lunch is a little extreme. They weren’t that far off.

 

[TS Quint]

out to lunch is a little extreme. They weren’t that far off.

He was asking for 25% more than he got. That’s a lot. And even more to cover the gap to the Wings offer. Completely out to lunch.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Love Tuzzi he's a very humble kid, Love how he said that even if it were 5 6 or 4 year deal. He still treats it like a 1 year deal and goes out and bust his tail off.

 

[njx9]

I don’t agree with that last paragraph at all.

I think it is as simple as Bertuzzi and his agent thought they could get 4M. But due to Covid locking the cap the next three years, Detroit wasn’t wanting to do that unless Bert signed 6-7 years.

I don’t think going to arbitration in this year is indicative of bad negotiations... just “you want 4 million from Detroit? Here is what you’ll have to do

As I said, I hope you're right. I suppose we'll know in June.

Holland is gone, average to good (Maybe less) players aren’t getting overpaid any more. Bert was out to lunch by A LOT. This wasn’t a small gap.

I think it's wild that we're pretending signing Bert for 1 year $4m is in any way similar to, for instance, giving Abs 7 years, giving Nielsen literally anything, giving Cleary dollar after dollar, etc. Additionally, if Bert isn't even "good", per your words, this team is a decade off and signing him or not is irrelevant. Lastly, pretending roughly $1-2m for a guy who's playing in your top 6 isn't a "small gap" is absurd hyperbole.