Defensive philosophy

[RememberTheRoar]

There was some talking in tonight’s game day thread about blocking slap shots, defenseman standing to the side of the screeing player, and Coach Q’s overall defensive philosophy.

I figured it’d be helpful to post Brian Campbell’s/Pat Boyle’s explanation of what Q wants. This comes from the Hawks Talk podcast, episode 57 from February 2nd. Discussion starts at 19:45.

-only let goalie be screened by opposing player (don’t create a double screen by battling the opposing player in front of the goalie)
-block wristers (if attempting a block, you better make sure you block it rather than interfering with the goalie’s vision of the shot)
-if not blocking wristers, stand to the side to let goalie have clean look
-tie up sticks

Campbell said, “getting sticks and lifting them to the rafters and making sure they’re up in the air so they don’t have a opportunity to tip it is the best way of going about the business in front of your net.”

Click to read more...

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

It has always been this way.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It has always been this way.

Okay, I didn’t say it wasn’t. I posted this because it didn’t seem like common knowledge in tonight’s game day thread.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Okay, I didn’t say it wasn’t. I posted this because it didn’t seem like common knowledge in tonight’s game day thread.

Gotcha. Yeah certain posters have been complaining about this for years and blaming the Dmen and Q in seemingly equal measure when really if they don't like this style of play they should only be blaming Q since he's coaching the players to do it. The system seems effective with Crow in net at least but it seems like that might just be because Crow is a really good goalie. Our backups get beat on clean shots pretty often though.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I don't actually have a problem with Q having his defensemen stand clear of the goalies view. Some goalies like it one way, some like it another. Crow was playing at a Vezina level with this system until he got hurt, and as long as he's the guy likely to be playing the majority of next season, the system should reflect his strengths.

I do think this team needs to fix some of the problems on defense (let Forsling bump out one of Oesterle/Gustafsson/Seabrook, and try to acquire a De Haan or Moore to replace another one of those guys) and I think we need to look at better backups, but don't change the system for how we defend near the crease.

 

[pvr]

There was some talking in tonight’s game day thread about blocking slap shots, defenseman standing to the side of the screeing player, and Coach Q’s overall defensive philosophy.

I figured it’d be helpful to post Brian Campbell’s/Pat Boyle’s explanation of what Q wants. This comes from the Hawks Talk podcast, episode 57 from February 2nd. Discussion starts at 19:45.

-only let goalie be screened by opposing player (don’t create a double screen by battling the opposing player in front of the goalie)
-block wristers (if attempting a block, you better make sure you block it rather than interfering with the goalie’s vision of the shot)
-if not blocking wristers, stand to the side to let goalie have clean look
-tie up sticks

Campbell said, “getting sticks and lifting them to the rafters and making sure they’re up in the air so they don’t have a opportunity to tip it is the best way of going about the business in front of your net.”

So nauseating to read that. The shaft of the defenseman’s stick should stealthily be contacting the small of the opponents’ back. Preferably with some force.

 

[AmericanDream]

It has always been this way.

tell that to Hammer...

 

[Pez68]

I have never, ever, in 30+ years being around hockey, heard of a more nonsensical approach to shot blocking. You either want your guys blocking shots, or you don't. I can understand tying guys up and not screening your goalie. Fine. Some goalies prefer this. If that's your tactic, it has to be for ALL shots.

Blocking only wristers makes absolutely no sense. First, they are about ten times more difficult to block than a slap shot... Second, they are more accurate, and you are MUCH more likely to screen your goalie trying to block a wrist shot as opposed to a slap shot. I actually love when a defenseman tries to block my wrist shots. I use him as a screen more than half the time. It is also extremely easy to walk a defenseman that comes up and tries to block wristers... Feint the shot by dipping your shoulder, watch him attempt to block, and go right around.

Q needs to be shown the door. He clearly has no idea about goal scoring or offense, and that lack of knowledge impacts the Hawks defensively. If you don't understand the mindset of guys that score, how can you possibly coach to prevent it?

Crow is just a damn good goalie. The system has nothing to do with his success. He, like the Hawks as a team, has been successful in spite of the coaching.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

tell that to Hammer...

When you have a guy that good at blocking shots you let him block them all lol. Maybe Q has changed his stance on blocking slap shots in recent years. It is definitely pretty stupid to try and block just one time of shot. Commit to the block or commit to tying up sticks.

 

[AmericanDream]

When you have a guy that good at blocking shots you let him block them all lol. Maybe Q has changed his stance on blocking slap shots in recent years. It is definitely pretty stupid to try and block just one time of shot. Commit to the block or commit to tying up sticks.

exactly, and all this does is delay and confuse players...as we know how many fake slapshots you see out there, but also fake wristers now...also, the amount of wrist shots has risen over the years to be the premier shot...so many players now have wrist shots hitting the upper 80's and low 90's...it is a borderline slapshot in itself.

like you said either block shots or dont...such a stupid ass philosophy and confusing way to limit your defenders explains a lot as to what has happened to our defense over the past few years

 

[Section88]

I have never, ever, in 30+ years being around hockey, heard of a more nonsensical approach to shot blocking. You either want your guys blocking shots, or you don't. I can understand tying guys up and not screening your goalie. Fine. Some goalies prefer this. If that's your tactic, it has to be for ALL shots.

Blocking only wristers makes absolutely no sense. First, they are about ten times more difficult to block than a slap shot... Second, they are more accurate, and you are MUCH more likely to screen your goalie trying to block a wrist shot as opposed to a slap shot. I actually love when a defenseman tries to block my wrist shots. I use him as a screen more than half the time. It is also extremely easy to walk a defenseman that comes up and tries to block wristers... Feint the shot by dipping your shoulder, watch him attempt to block, and go right around.

Q needs to be shown the door. He clearly has no idea about goal scoring or offense, and that lack of knowledge impacts the Hawks defensively. If you don't understand the mindset of guys that score, how can you possibly coach to prevent it?

Crow is just a damn good goalie. The system has nothing to do with his success. He, like the Hawks as a team, has been successful in spite of the coaching.

I see what youre saying but i feel like its tough to go against the opinion of the coach with the 2nd most wins in nhl history. Js

 

[Bubba88]

Qs System isn't a fit to the Players. They are not good enough to do what he wants. They are different.

I don't understand the logic in not blocking a wrister or not trying to physically push the screener away. If Q hasn't noticed, that's enough to get scored on and maybe some adjustments are needed.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Tough to tie up a guy's stick when you're more than a stick length away from him or on the wrong side of his body.

 

[pvr]

I see what youre saying but i feel like its tough to go against the opinion of the coach with the 2nd most wins in nhl history. Js

Not difficult at all if you’ve played the game and understand what it’s like, or should be like, in front of the net. Give guys time and space, and they’re going to do some damage. The system can’t be inflexible.

 

[hawksfan50]

Tying up sticks is OK when you are in correct position and have the speed to get to a stick on stick ..but when you chase aroubdblijeca Chinese fire drill,are in wrong cover positions ;arena are slow on awareness to get to a loose puck first such that opportunity player cannot get the puck and just fore away..then Q's system crumbles. .that has been the case all season..Add in the poor clears,turnovers in the d-zone and puck battles lost in the boards in the d-zone and you get an greater number of oops shot opportunities

 

[BobbyJet]

Tough to tie up a guy's stick when you're more than a stick length away from him or on the wrong side of his body.

EXACTLY. Hence lies the problem in a few words. The so-called system is flawed when dmen are nowhere close enough to get body position or tie up ops stick.

 

[BobbyJet]

It would be interesting to see the number of goals against generated by deflections goals or rebound goals by players standing unmolested in front of Hawks net. I reckon it is close to 50 percent, perhaps higher. That's some system Q.

 

[Enyaw]

I dont understand .... did the system change over the last 7-10 years?

This is the same defensive system that won 3 Stanley Cups

Its failing now because of ???????????????? ............ I think its the players using the system (or cant physically do the system) and lack of coaching the system ........... if the players cant handle this system ... then change the system to the players capability

Its like trying to slam a round peg in a square hole

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I dont understand .... did the system change over the last 7-10 years?

This is the same defensive system that won 3 Stanley Cups

Its failing now because of ???????????????? ............ I think its the players using the system (or cant physically do the system) and lack of coaching the system ........... if the players cant handle this system ... then change the system to the players capability

Its like trying to slam a round peg in a square hole

Yes, this goes for the whole team, not just the defense. As the roster changes, and players regress, it seems like a lot of round pegs into square holes.

 

[ClydeLee]

It's a system that has worked and in this regard, unlike the Hawks penchant for taking lots of slap shots(A thing I see nobobdy consider issues about) and D skating up the puck though, I don't see anyway this D system is outdated or failing to cause success compared to other ways.

I do see with Penguins or other teams not some big boxing out body types or with other teams either, I do see them being much better at clearly the pucks away from the crease though, this season the Hawks have looked extra awful there. But I think there's more talent and effort worry there, I don't see how some other coaching to tell them to box out guys with THIS roster would make them any better on D. Nobody but Seabs who has played this way 8 years now would be capable to really force out the body and Murphy looked to get better than what he was before by learning to use more stickwork than he was at the start of the year and in Arizona times.

 

[BK]

I dont understand .... did the system change over the last 7-10 years?

This is the same defensive system that won 3 Stanley Cups

Its failing now because of ???????????????? ............ I think its the players using the system (or cant physically do the system) and lack of coaching the system ........... if the players cant handle this system ... then change the system to the players capability

Its like trying to slam a round peg in a square hole

Roster changes have something to do with it but the league has adapted to the system and can not beat it with easy using simple strategy changes.

 

[BobbyJet]

Gotcha. Yeah certain posters have been complaining about this for years and blaming the Dmen and Q in seemingly equal measure when really if they don't like this style of play they should only be blaming Q since he's coaching the players to do it. The system seems effective with Crow in net at least but it seems like that might just be because Crow is a really good goalie. Our backups get beat on clean shots pretty often though.

I'm sure Hawks defense also misses the blocked shots that were a big strength of Hammer's game.

 

[coolhand]

Don't block shots? That's what the Preds did all last season in the playoffs to get to the finals. It's insane to think you stand off to the side and let the opposing team stand in front of your net and you try to get a stick on him when the shot comes.

 

[Blackhawks]

How about this philosophy, get better defensemen instead of the garbage ones currently on this team?

 

[vshun]

Actually, biggest shot blocker on Hawks was not Hammer but TVR while he was here. Was quite unappreciated for what he did.