Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[Miller Time]

Will always have a harder time with the ''objective fact'' premise. Again, it's a board of opinions. Facts, we can read it on NHL.com statsboard. We don't have to write in my opinion everytime.

It's not the stating of it that's the issue... It's posters that mistake their opinions for fact that's silly and makes for bad takes & go nowhere "debates"

Thing is, some have a harder time accepting opinions of others when it goes against their opinion. That is ALSO NOT A FACT. Yes, right now, Reinbacher could become Pietrangelo and Michkov can become Yakupov. Most definately. But again...if we wait till we have the facts...what's the point in discussing the 2023 draft or even the 2024 one? Should we solely be reviewing the 2017 drafts and below?

Nope. But from what I can tell, it's the exact opposite that details these threads... Posters acting as if it's a given that Michkov is the next Kucherov, and that DR has no chance of delivering better impact at the NHL level.

It's possible to prefer the Habs picked Michkov without acting as if it's a given he'll be the better player.

"I think" is different than "it's a given".

The toxicity of the debate is not amongst ourselves. It's when it's directed towards a 18-year old kid that just want to develop in his own way. I might have a take on the subject...but if I see him on the street I won't shout...HEY YOU 2ND PAIR CEILING!!!!! I will say good luck 'cause in the end, I want my team to win. And no matter what whoever does elsewhere, he has to do well here.

Amen

 

[JRichard]

Where do you read this? EOTP who has a great website for the consensus....had Michkov at 4. That doesn't strike me as the same realm as Bedard. You'd think that if a guy would be in the same realm, he would have gotten a few No1 votes no? And he didn't. By nobody. Bedard was unanimous.

EOTP’s 2023 Consensus NHL Draft Rankings

The 2023 NHL Entry Draft begins on Wednesday, and EOTP has been keeping track of most of the rankings to come out ahead of the draft. Some rankings have more correlation to how the draft will unfold…

www.habseyesontheprize.com

No doubt Bedard was 1.
But when you look at that link, it shows Michkov 4 from 2-5 with next to no range with 2-3.
Smith behind at 5th
And DR 11th from 6-23.

 

[salbutera]

We don't even know to this day if Hutson will be a permanent fixture.....Why does it matter if he doesn't generate offense? Well it's because that's what top 2 D's usually do. And for this pick to be a real success based on where we picked him, that's what we will expect him to be.

That’s what you & some others expect him to be, sounds to me as HuGo expect a player to provide 25-30TOI capable of playing all game situations not offensive stats …

 

[Habs7631]

Secondly, you can't scoff at the thought of Michkov being comparable to Bedard without also scoffing at the thought of Reinbacher becoming a Heiskanen like player. The former is far more likely to happen than the latter, I don't think it's outlandish to say that Michkov's ceiling is significantly higher than Reinbacher. But same thing, maybe Michkov really is a headcase and can't be useful in the playoffs, maybe he isn't and can be a key player, only time will tell.

The double standard is very silly.

I get what you’re saying but I think it’s different for the people comparing Reinbacher to player X or Y. This is a Reinbacher thread after all, of course people are gonna discuss what his potential ceiling is or what player he might be similar too. Where else are people supposed to discuss Reinbacher potential/similar player if not in this thread.

Caufield falling is also really different that Michkov falling. I agree draft night almost never goes according to the consensus (if there is even one) but generational talent don’t fall in the draft. If Michkov was truly on the same level as Bedard who was a generational prospect, he would have gone #2. And yes were he was supposed to go doesn’t matter, but the way some people talk about Michkov, if true then he should have been a lock for #2.

McKenzie finals list had Michkov at 5 Source. Another guy just above me another mock draft where he was at 4. Most mock drafts I remember had him in that range. I’m pretty sure I remember last year draft thread, people were getting excited when it turned out he was expected to go in our range.

So he’s a potential generational talent and the greatest Russian prospect ever but yet he was being ranked at 4-5-6? How is that possible? Was last year draft the greatest draft of all-time?

I also remember reading a lot about how Washington was 100% gonna pick him at 8, and that there was a real chance he would be there at 8.

I’m not on team Reinbacher or team Michkov or whatever. It’s way too early to tell. And Michkov could really well become the best player of this draft and Reinbacher could become a bum.

The only thing I find funny is the way some people talk about Michkov like we already missed on the next Malkin. If it’s true how good/hype he was, he would have gone #2, that’s all I’m saying.

 

[ReHabs]

There’s no need to panic. The Habs are in good hands — right? If you agree, then you should trust they’ll do right by the organization’s needs and build a team with the right pieces, one of them being Reinbacher.

Reinbacher had a weak D+1 (allegedly), but he’s still the same prospect that was ranked as a first round talent in 2023. Let him cook.

Whatever happens with Michkov is no longer our concern… until he becomes a legitimate star. At that point we can expect a lot of grumbling. But until then there’s no point.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I get what you’re saying but I think it’s different for the people comparing Reinbacher to player X or Y. This is a Reinbacher thread after all, of course people are gonna discuss what his potential ceiling is or what player he might be similar too. Where else are people supposed to discuss Reinbacher potential/similar player if not in this thread.

Caufield falling is also really different that Michkov falling. I agree draft night almost never goes according to the consensus (if there is even one) but generational talent don’t fall in the draft. If Michkov was truly on the same level as Bedard who was a generational prospect, he would have gone #2. And yes were he was supposed to go doesn’t matter, but the way some people talk about Michkov, if true then he should have been a lock for #2.

McKenzie finals list had Michkov at 5 Source. Another guy just above me another mock draft where he was at 4. Most mock drafts I remember had him in that range. I’m pretty sure I remember last year draft thread, people were getting excited when it turned out he was expected to go in our range.

So he’s a potential generational talent and the greatest Russian prospect ever but yet he was being ranked at 4-5-6? How is that possible? Was last year draft the greatest draft of all-time?

I also remember reading a lot about how Washington was 100% gonna pick him at 8, and that there was a real chance he would be there at 8.

I’m not on team Reinbacher or team Michkov or whatever. It’s way too early to tell. And Michkov could really well become the best player of this draft and Reinbacher could become a bum.

The only thing I find funny is the way some people talk about Michkov like we already missed on the next Malkin. If it’s true how good/hype he was, he would have gone #2, that’s all I’m saying.

Your argument kind of falls apart when you realize that guys don't go where they should in the draft all the time. Especially Russians lol. Sure, Ovi and Malkin went 1-2 but the best Russians since them went 58 and 135 respectively.

The reasons for teams passing on him could be chocked up to GMs wanting a sure thing in the top 5, who will likely play during their tenure as GM. Michkov was uncertain in that regard, plus the war was scaring people off.

 

[ReHabs]

So he’s a potential generational talent and the greatest Russian prospect ever but yet he was being ranked at 4-5-6? How is that possible? Was last year draft the greatest draft of all-time?

This argument has been addressed many times.

The story goes: on a talent level he is -ALLEGEDLY- comparable with Bedard and his numbers stack up against the very best of the Russians’… however there is more to drafting than just perceived talent and relative numbers. 1) Fantili, Carlsson, and (some would add) Smith were *also* very very interesting prospects, 2) Michkov’s size brings him down a peg relative to Fantili and Carlsson especially, 3) the whole “external risks” bucket which includes the contract in the KHL and the difficulty NHL GMs and scouts would have in scouting him live in person and also 4) a basic general aversion to drafting from Russia.

All put together I think any Habs fan would’ve taken Carlsson and Fantilli over Michkov — the point isn’t Michkov, it’s offensive firepower for a team starved of capable productive forward talent. Now with only Smith left at four, it could be that Smith edged the case over Michkov and others.

But if you’re asking why certain teams didn’t pick Michkov, you should also ask why four teams didn’t pick Reinbacher. The questions reveal themselves to be very unnecessary.

 

[HabbyGuy]

There’s no need to panic. The Habs are in good hands — right? If you agree, then you should trust they’ll do right by the organization’s needs and build a team with the right pieces, one of them being Reinbacher.

Reinbacher had a weak D+1 (allegedly), but he’s still the same prospect that was ranked as a first round talent in 2023. Let him cook.

Whatever happens with Michkov is no longer our concern… until he becomes a legitimate star. At that point we can expect a lot of grumbling. But until then there’s no point.

Well said... We should probably just start talking about David again in his thread until further notice.

 

[JianYang]

I just want to reiterate because it seems you got things confused.

If Michkov becomes amazing, SEVERAL teams will have some explaining to do, not EXCLUSIVELY the Habs.

There was no excuse made for anyone.

The other caveat that was being tossed around at that time was whether michkov was telling different organizations different things in order to skew his prospects of getting selected to one of his preferred destinations.

There's a cloud of mystery around this whole ordeal and I feel like we only know the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Many posters and media personnel also embraced HuGo's xenophbic policy of Russia = Scary and Bad

Makes it hard for me to really understand if Michkov refused to play here, or if we interviewed him arrogantly about how we just got rid of all the Russian players in our organization because we don't trust them

 

[Scriptor]

Many posters and media personnel also embraced HuGo's xenophbic policy of Russia = Scary and Bad

Makes it hard for me to really understand if Michkov refused to play here, or if we interviewed him arrogantly about how we just got rid of all the Russian players in our organization because we don't trust them

Seriously with this alleged xenophobia crap?

 

[Schooner Guy]

Many posters and media personnel also embraced HuGo's xenophbic policy of Russia = Scary and Bad

Makes it hard for me to really understand if Michkov refused to play here, or if we interviewed him arrogantly about how we just got rid of all the Russian players in our organization because we don't trust them

Oh for crissakes. The Habs drafted two Russian players last year and their director of amateur scouting is from Russia.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Oh for crissakes. The Habs drafted two Russian players last year and their director of amateur scouting is from Russia.

I think there's some very valid criticisms to be made of HuGo for not drafting Michkov. I don't think any of them have to do with anti-Russian sentiment.

 

[jaffy27]

There’s no need to panic. The Habs are in good hands — right? If you agree, then you should trust they’ll do right by the organization’s needs and build a team with the right pieces, one of them being Reinbacher.

Reinbacher had a weak D+1 (allegedly), but he’s still the same prospect that was ranked as a first round talent in 2023. Let him cook.

Whatever happens with Michkov is no longer our concern… until he becomes a legitimate star. At that point we can expect a lot of grumbling. But until then there’s no point.

Yup…..

If Reinbacher becomes Juolevi and Michkov becomes Tkachuk then I’ll light up my torch and sharpen my pitchfork and I’ll meet you guys at the Bell Centre

I think there's some very valid criticisms to be made of HuGo for not drafting Michkov. I don't think any of them have to do with anti-Russian sentiment.

Your reasons are speculations that Michkov will be a much more valuable asset to his team then Reinbacher…..speculation and assumptions on who will BECOME better is a failed strategy when trying to see who’s better.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Imagine telling your 2021 self you could have had Shane Wright, Matvei Michkov and Cole Eiserman but you’re gonna take none of them

LOL it's crazy when you think about it, funny how quickly things change.

 

[JianYang]

Many posters and media personnel also embraced HuGo's xenophbic policy of Russia = Scary and Bad

Makes it hard for me to really understand if Michkov refused to play here, or if we interviewed him arrogantly about how we just got rid of all the Russian players in our organization because we don't trust them

You can have your opinion about some xenophobia around Russians but don't present as fact because someone is going to read this and think it is a fact, and the myth will continue to grow.

 

[Goldthorpe]

Had the habs didn't want to draft a D I bet they would have picked Leonard and not Michkov.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

It's possible that teams will regret not drafting Michkov. We'll see I guess. I'm really happy with Reinbacher to be honest. I think he'll be a good one, so I wouldn't want to switch, but maybe San Jose will regret not taking Michkov at 4 or Arizona at 6.

I think maybe Gabe Perreault causes more regrets when teams look back at 2023, but who knows.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

You can have your opinion about some xenophobia around Russians but don't present as fact because someone is going to read this and think it is a fact, and the myth will continue to grow.

Seriously with this alleged xenophobia crap?

Oh for crissakes. The Habs drafted two Russian players last year and their director of amateur scouting is from Russia.

RW Matvei Michkov - HC Sochi, KHL (2023 Draft) - PART 3

The million dollar question with Michkov is when he will arrive in North America. Anybody who questions if he is a rare talent just hasn't watched him enough. GMs get fired all the time and if it looks like a 3 or 4 year wait, they will be tempted by the big centers tearing up the NCAA & SHL...

forums.hfboards.com

When they interviewed Michkov it would have been before they drafted any Russian players obviously.

They had just purged every Russian from their NHL/AHL roster and didn't draft any in the year prior.

Not unreasonable that it came up in interview.

 

[dinodebino]

I think the most toxic posts are the ones that are calling this thread toxic because we're debating a draft pick. Speaking for myself only, I am well aware that DR is our pick and am rooting for him but that doesn't preclude me from having a healthy/critical debate about pick alternatives on an internet forum; or am I just supposed to nod my head in agreement with the infallible HuGo ? This debate will persist for the foreseeable future as their respective careers unfold. Please, pretty please DR make me eat crow.

I saw the replies. And it will get worse. Yes, toxic it is. Debates are good for election periods. Debates on prospects/suspects is not why I come read this forum. I come for the great insight on prospects. For the funny rants that make some winter evenings enjoyable. For the rumours of trades and stuff. For the good results our kids are producing. And for the news that pop here before they pop up elsewhere on the interwebs.

Maybe debates on sports are for you. And others. Excellent, then. Enjoy it, folks. While it’s 30 degrees outside and life has so much to give.

 

[NORiculous]

The other caveat that was being tossed around at that time was whether michkov was telling different organizations different things in order to skew his prospects of getting selected to one of his preferred destinations.

There's a cloud of mystery around this whole ordeal and I feel like we only know the tip of the iceberg.

I feel like a lot of it is bs.

 

[Whitesnake]

The quote you just replied too was someone saying just that.

Always wondering why we think the few represent the most. When I say consensus, I mean consensus. Not exceptions.

No doubt Bedard was 1.
But when you look at that link, it shows Michkov 4 from 2-5
Smith behind at 5th 4-8
And DR 11th from 6-23.

Which prooves my point that in no way MOST though Michkov was with Bedard. He wasn't even with Fantilli and Carlsson. You probably can make an argument with Smith.

That’s what you & some others expect him to be, sounds to me as HuGo expect a player to provide 25-30TOI capable of playing all game situations not offensive stats …

When you pick top 5, I'm expecting a top 6 forward, a top 2 D or a No1 goalie. Not saying it always happen. But look at history, we can safely say that it does for at least 90% of the picks in the last 20 years.

 

[417]

Always wondering why we think the few represent the most. When I say consensus, I mean consensus. Not exceptions.

Well I haven't did a poll, just judging the some of the discussion in this very thread and social media.

 

[River Meadow]

Had the habs didn't want to draft a D I bet they would have picked Leonard and not Michkov.

That would have been nice, too.

Reinbecker or wtv his name is better pan out.

 

[Runner77]

I saw the replies. And it will get worse. Yes, toxic it is. Debates are good for election periods. Debates on prospects/suspects is not why I come read this forum. I come for the great insight on prospects. For the funny rants that make some winter evenings enjoyable. For the rumours of trades and stuff. For the good results our kids are producing. And for the news that pop here before they pop up elsewhere on the interwebs.

Maybe debates on sports are for you. And others. Excellent, then. Enjoy it, folks. While it’s 30 degrees outside and life has so much to give.

It’s even worse on TwitterX where one user felt compelled to post this:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1792554164393832687