Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[Runner77]

But we can’t keep repeating the narrative that Michkov was in the same stratosphere as Bedard, while simultaneously ignoring their were 3 other teams who passed on him before Habs ignored him and picked Reinbacher and another team who also passed on him.

Why did a player whose apparently in the same stratosphere as the #1 pick, last all the way to #7?

Clearly the consensus among those who were picking was that he was NOT in the same stratosphere.

If he was, he wouldn't have been available for the Habs to select.

I only answered in respect to a point you raised about Leonard only to find out that it was merely a rhetorical question to plunge us right back into the same tired arguments we’ve already both made at length.

I’ve said my piece and have no appetite to revisit who passed on the guy and who didn’t and whose perception was reality and whose wasn’t.

I hope Reinbacher pans out regardless of what the other guy does.

 

[Runner77]

The habs were near the bottom of the league in both goals for and goals against. There is a need for offensive help and also for defensive help.

The offense is weak but the D is only impressive if you consider how young they are, not that they’re good now, more that there is hope they will grow. We’ll see if Dach can stay healthy and make an impact on both sides of the ice, but there is still a lot of work to be done. Some of that work will be plugging in guys like Beck as they age in, some will be signing defensive forwards and improving the bottom six. Even so there is a need for higher end players at most positions.

True about more than one need but at least on defence, there are options. Who has top 6 potential in the pipeline (assuming Roy has made the team)? It’s a more glaring weakness.

 

[ReHabs]

Some sort of an alternative history going on in this thread where Bobrov-sr. is the key person on the SKA team

Seriously though iirc Bobrov-jr. made it clear in the post-draft interview that they weren't comfortable picking someone, who they didn't see playing in person, that high. Was fine for the Konyushkov pick though.

What's funny is Bobrov Jr could've visited Russia at any time without much issue. He probably did tbh but Michkov was not a priority for the organization. This is fair enough -- they seem to have truly preferred Reinbacher and felt he was going to be availalbe in the top5.

We'll see how it plays out but I do not buy for a moment the character assassination campaign moronic Habs fans wage against prospects. They did the same against Wright; they did it against Michkov prior to and after the draft and they'll continue do it until Michkov makes them all eat their words. It's a part of Habs fan culture.

 

[Runner77]

 

[River Meadow]

Habs Management think Reinbacher is going to become a Roman Josi or similar.

That's the only way passing on Michkov (and others) for him makes sense.

Reinbacher had better numbers in his draft year than Roman Josi did in his draft year with the Swiss National League. Reinbacher recorded 19 assists and 3 goals in 50 games for EHC Kloten in the 2022-23 season, putting up more points than Josi's 8 points (2 goals, 6 assists) in 35 games during his draft year with the NL.

Reinbacher's impressive performance placed him in the 86th percentile among defensemen for Win Shares in his draft year, which is considered beyond impressive.

While the Swiss National League is not a true development league due to the limited local talent pool, Reinbacher's standout numbers and high-level play against borderline NHLers like Alex Formenton and Tim Heed have caught the attention of scouts.

His hockey IQ, puck handling, and offensive instincts have drawn comparisons to Josi, who went on to become a Norris Trophy winner, and it's clear Habs are hoping for the same from Reinbacher.

 

[River Meadow]

I am just making some observations right or wrong.
If you don't like what I post then f***ing hit the ignore button.
I don't play well with holier than thou condescending posts

Get em', Iron Mike!

 

[dcyhabs]

True about more than one need but at least on defence, there are options. Who has top 6 potential in the pipeline (assuming Roy has made the team)? It’s a more glaring weakness.

Forwards are weaker but who on D will be top pairing? The habs have a top line, and filling out the bottom two lines shouldn’t be difficult. They need some top pairing D, who may develop, and some second line forwards.

The list of forwards is thinner but if it’s between a good forward and a D who broke records I’d go D.

 

[DAChampion]

You expect him to be a top 3 D of his era ?

Fantilli and Carlsson were rightful pick, they have similar upside than Michkov.

You're contradicting yourself. You're saying that Fantilli, Carlson, and Michkov are each equivalent in value to a top 3d of their era.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Habs Management think Reinbacher is going to become a Roman Josi or similar.

That's the only way passing on Michkov (and others) for him makes sense.

Reinbacher had better numbers in his draft year than Roman Josi did in his draft year with the Swiss National League. Reinbacher recorded 19 assists and 3 goals in 50 games for EHC Kloten in the 2022-23 season, putting up more points than Josi's 8 points (2 goals, 6 assists) in 35 games during his draft year with the NL.

Reinbacher's impressive performance placed him in the 86th percentile among defensemen for Win Shares in his draft year, which is considered beyond impressive.

While the Swiss National League is not a true development league due to the limited local talent pool, Reinbacher's standout numbers and high-level play against borderline NHLers like Alex Formenton and Tim Heed have caught the attention of scouts.

His hockey IQ, puck handling, and offensive instincts have drawn comparisons to Josi, who went on to become a Norris Trophy winner, and it's clear Habs are hoping for the same from Reinbacher.

Why does it have to be only on what Reinbacher becomes and not what Michkov becomes?

They didn't take Michkov because they didn't believe the offensive upside to be as great as the fans did, they also had concerns about how he creates his offensive, how he plays in all 3 zones, and his size.

They didn't think his offensive ability, rightly or wrongly, was special enough to overcome his perceived defensive issues, the perceived locker room issues, his size, and having both him and Caufield in their top 6 to compete for the cup.

All in all, what matters is if Reinbacher establishes himself to the Montreal Canadiens and if he becomes a valuable defenseman and we have success in the playoffs with this play. That's it.

 

[BLONG7]

This thread is as toxic as the Slaf theead 8 months ago. Enjoy!

Lost on so many eh............................the habs brass were $hit on big time for taking Slaf.
Last year at 19 he got 50 pts playing on the first line for 3 months......

This group of guys, Bobrov, Gorton, Hughes since joining the habs have hit some pretty crazy good prospects with their picks in their short tenure with the club.

Timmins had almost 20 years with the habs, and MB 10 years and expecially MB with Timmins did not do nearly as well with more time................trust the process guys. I was positive they were taking Shane Wright......boy I am glad to be wrong there.

Go back and look at the previous regimes 10 drafts.........some nice picks, but very underwhelming, which is why we sunk to the bottom of the league and other teams like Dallas have risen.

 

[BLONG7]

Why does it have to be only on what Reinbacher becomes and not what Michkov becomes?

They didn't take Michkov because they didn't believe the offensive upside to be as great as the fans did, they also had concerns about how he creates his offensive, how he plays in all 3 zones, and his size.

They didn't think his offensive ability, rightly or wrongly, was special enough to overcome his perceived defensive issues, the perceived locker room issues, his size, and having both him and Caufield in their top 6 to compete for the cup.

All in all, what matters is if Reinbacher establishes himself to the Montreal Canadiens and if he becomes a valuable defenseman and we have success in the playoffs with this play. That's it.

Were there not also huge red flags about this kid and his not being a good team mate?? Michkov that is.....

 

[SwiftyHab]

We are where Flyer fans were at when they passed on Caufield, except that Michkov is expected to produce at a higher level than Caufield. I can’t believe this happened under HuGo, who seemed more progressive and sophisticated than several past Habs management contingents and not likely to repeat the mistakes of the past, new slate and all.

Hughes has to fix the top 6 issue given what happened last year, but above all, because the pipeline is dry on scoring forwards. I just hope he doesn’t overreach in doing it as you’d still want to see a clear BPA with that early pick.

I suspect that he’ll not only draft a great forward but that he’ll also sign a top 6 free agent for a short term to allow the new draft pick to develop and also trade for a young top 6 forward as well with that late Winnipeg pick and a d man.

At the end of this summer I think you’ll see a reformulated top 6 that will help us compete for a playoff ticket

 

[NORiculous]

Why does it have to be only on what Reinbacher becomes and not what Michkov becomes?

They didn't take Michkov because they didn't believe the offensive upside to be as great as the fans did, they also had concerns about how he creates his offensive, how he plays in all 3 zones, and his size.

They didn't think his offensive ability, rightly or wrongly, was special enough to overcome his perceived defensive issues, the perceived locker room issues, his size, and having both him and Caufield in their top 6 to compete for the cup.

All in all, what matters is if Reinbacher establishes himself to the Montreal Canadiens and if he becomes a valuable defenseman and we have success in the playoffs with this play. That's it.

If « they » didn’t think that and were wrong, someone has to lose his job. ESPECIALLY because they were unanimous about it.

Also, it wasn’t only the « fans » that had his potential trough the roof. You speak like you work for the Habs and are trying to cover the tracks when you say that.

Even if Reinbacher does establish himself as a valuable D( he most likely will), not having a superstar upfront is not a viable model. Only St-Louis had the Cinderella run (and have not done anything since) in the last 20 years. Since we were told they wanted to be regularly competitive for the cup, not having a superstar won’t produce that, only the occasional Cinderella run.

Taking a shot at an offensive talent like that, and what was at the time apparently the only shot they would get, was essential. Huge strategic mistake of not going for it.

The argument about two small offensive players is also irrelevant. If Michkov turns into the stud you need, you can always trade Caufield for a huge return if it truly doesn’t work in the playoffs.

But saying that having two small forwards is a bad model while pursuing a model that has never worked regularly is just an argument to muddying the waters and has no real weight.

It is not hard to predict that if/when Michkov turns into what he was projected, Habs current management will never hear the end of it.

 

[NORiculous]

Were there not also huge red flags about this kid and his not being a good team mate?? Michkov that is.....

Wasn’t clear. Some said yes, others said no. I think there was only one known source that said he was trouble and a lot of journalists repeated it.

Bobrov most likely had some info (just guessing) but being a dick at 18 doesn’t mean you are a bad/wrong pick.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I think what's being underappreciated here is that we are in it to try and win Stanley Cups, and Michkovs profile as a player is more Johnny gaudreau than it is Wyatt Johnston. Reinbacher is more Heiskanen than not. Hence it's easy to see how the Habs organization prioritized the top pairing Dman, in my opinion

How is Michkov more Gaudreau than Kucherov? And let's not forget people were saying Kessel and Stamkos were guys you don't win cups with for ages.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Were there not also huge red flags about this kid and his not being a good team mate?? Michkov that is.....

Yes, there were character concerns about the player.

If « they » didn’t think that and were wrong, someone has to lose his job. ESPECIALLY because they were unanimous about it.

Also, it wasn’t only the « fans » that had his potential trough the roof. You speak like you work for the Habs and are trying to cover the tracks when you say that.

Even if Reinbacher does establish himself as a valuable D( he most likely will), not haven’t a superstar upfront is not a viable model. Only St-Louis had the Cinderella run (and have not done anything since) in the last 20 years. Since we were told they wanted to be regularly competitive for the cup, not having a superstar won’t produce that, only occasional.

Taking a shot at an offensive talent like that, and what was at the time apparently the only shot they would get, was essential. Huge strategic mistake of not going for it.

The argument about two small offensive players is also irrelevant. If Michkov turns into the stud you need, you can always trade Caufield for a huge return if it truly doesn’t work in the playoffs.

But saying that having two small forwards is a bad model while pursuing a model that has never worked regularly is just an argument to muddying the waters and has no real weight.

It is not hard to predict that if/when Michkov turns into what he was projected, Habs current management will never hear the end of it.

Why would someone have to lose their job over it if they made a unanimous decision?

And yeah it was pretty much only the fans and guys with such terrible models that they think a KHL point is equal to a NHL point. We all agree that Bedard is a unanimous 1, yet after that, Anaheim, Columbus, San Jose, Montreal and Arizona all made the decision that Michkov wasn't their pick. Even Philly who took Michkov were trying to get 5 to take Reinbacher. Nashville stopped trying to trade up when we picked Reinbacher. Arizona was going to take Reinbacher if we didn't and then took another defenseman rather than going with Michkov.

5 NHL teams and scouts who all felt that Michkov wasn't special enough to pick him when presented the opportunity. His own selectioning team would have taken the player we drafted over Michkov if they were picking where we were. So how do you rationalize that? The team that took him felt Reinbacher was the better selection at the time of the draft.

Ultimately, teams see a big rangy right shot defenseman as a rarer and more important piece to winning the cup than a small dynamic winger that neglects his own zone to the point you rarely see him -in it-. It will be up to Torts to coach that into him now and if the character concerns are true, he may never improve that enough to be trusted.

I had Michkov at like 3, I think he's a great offensive talent and I would have taken the swing but I'm also humble enough to know that I've gotten it wrong on those guys a thousand times before.

 

[Mrb1p]

You're contradicting yourself. You're saying that Fantilli, Carlson, and Michkov are each equivalent in value to a top 3d of their era.

No I didn't say thay

 

[CHwest]

Wasn’t clear. Some said yes, others said no. I think there was only one known source that said he was trouble and a lot of journalists repeated it.

Bobrov most likely had some info (just guessing) but being a dick at 18 doesn’t mean you are a bad/wrong pick.

Being a dick at 18 certainly sets off red flags though.

 

[Heffyhoof]

I always suspected you were Keanu.

 

[DAChampion]

No I didn't say thay

Yeah you did man, come on, it's over two posts that are perhaps 1 day apart.

 

[dinodebino]

So the toxicity is back.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Being a dick at 18 certainly sets off red flags though.

If people who were dicks at 18 weren't allowed to play in the NHL the HHOF would be barren.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

So the toxicity is back.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah you did man, come on, it's over two posts that are perhaps 1 day apart.

For some reason you ignored the part where I said "Even I as his biggest fan can't say he's anything close to that"?

 

[DAChampion]

For some reason you ignored the part where I said "Even I as his biggest fan can't say he's anything close to that"?

Right, you said that Reinbacher won't be a top-3d of his era, which is what he needs to be to match Michkov, and that Fantilli and Carlson will be equivalent to Michkov.

OK but maybe I misread,

How good fo you think Reinbacher needs to be for the pick to be validated?