Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[417]

I don't like the argument that "well other teams passed up on him" when it comes to prospects. My point here is that using this argument is not only for Michkov, it's for every prospect that doesn't work out and it's not a good argument to use for every pick. As I said, this line of thinking can excuse any disappointing pick ever. Of course, you can't expect to hit on every single pick, but using this argument for every pick that didn't pan out is making excuses. For instance, if we swapped teams with Dallas right now, I don't think there would be an outrage that we passed up on Tage Thompson for Riley Tufte in 2016 given that we have made so many other great picks.

But it's a fact.

If indeed Michkov ends up being amazing, there will have been up to 6 teams to have passed on him.

Its just that it seems, if you listen to Habs fans, that the Montreal Canadiens specifically and exclusively passed on drafting him.

Almost like he was meant for them and they decided to turn the other cheek.

There were reasons why he dropped to 7th, those existed then and they still exist today.

Not to mention, ever thought about how Bedard/Carlsson/Fantilli/Smith were projected to be 1st line players and were seen as safer than Michkov? So that leaves us and Arizona who aren't exactly the model of a successful franchise as the teams that passed on him.

Well doesn't that justify them NOT selecting him then?

Probably because we have had the hardest time drafting high end forwards compared to other teams. Also the other teams that passed up on him include teams who got a forward prospect excelling as well, and Arizona who have like 5 fans and are notorious for making odd selections.

The history attributed to prior administrations belongs to those administrations, not sure what it has to do with what the Habs did last year.

It didn't matter the year before where they drafted the player that, today, everyone agrees was the best player/forward to have been picked.

It didn't matter that at the time, a lot of of the same folks crying foul over the Habs passing on Michkov because he's coming to North America, thought Cooley or Wright, were better options.

Not me, in fact, I made this very clear in the last part of my post.

I must have missed Slaf's PPG season in the NHL. Not to mention, using a 1st overall pick isn't exactly a way to evaluate drafting ability.

And I must have missed Michkov’s…

Especially the Habs, the only team to not have drafted a player that hit 70 points in a season since 2003.

Yes unfortunate history that will hopefully change.

Again, Reinbacher can definitely pan out and be more valuable than Michkov or even make us forget about Michkov, but my point here is that I just don't like your argument of "well other teams passed up on him" because if you use it this high up in the draft, it could also be used for all the later picks where drafting becomes harder. And if you use this argument for every pick, when do you stop using the argument and acknowledge that maybe the issue is your scouting team that consistently fails to draft elite players?

If Michkov ends up being amazing, I’ll be upset for having passed on him as well.

It doesn't change from the fact that SEVERAL teams passed on him, not exclusively the Habs.

 

[417]

For one reason only. Out of the picks that were made BEFORE the Habs, the very 1st pick that made people say WTF was our pick. Nobody thought Mickhov would have surpassed Bedard. Nor were people surprised by Carlsson and Fantilli. Now, maybe you could state Will Smith. But him again in some listing was seen ahead. And yes, Phoenix is another one. So Habs and Phoenix, big questions marks. Happens we picked 1st out of those 2 teams.

Also, the idea is that the first 4 picks, you could have an argument for the fact that they chose BPA. When for us, through Hughes comment, we decided to go position. Reason why you also have to add that into consideration.

Also we sucked at drafting and developing offensive forwards. At one point, enough is enough.

In the end, yeah...no matter how Michkov does....it's what REinbacher does that is important.

Frankly though...they better be right.

But if those 4 players, according to you, were all consensus better options.

Doesn't it justify or explain them passing too, not to mention Arizona?

Either way I agree in the end, they better have been right whether that's Michkov or anyone picked after Reinbacher.

Its just somewhere along the line, Habs fans adopted the notion that Michkov was destined to be a Hab, and now they're throwing a hissy fit because he's coming to NA.

Yawn

 

[Habssince89]

But if those 4 players, according to you, were all consensus better options.

Doesn't it justify or explain them passing too, not to mention Arizona?

Either way I agree in the end, they better have been right whether that's Michkov or anyone picked after Reinbacher.

Its just somewhere along the line, Habs fans adopted the notion that Michkov was destined to be a Hab, and now they're throwing a hissy fit because he's coming to NA.

Yawn

You're nailing it. Well done.

 

[417]

He obviously wasn't the "anointed pick" . . . but he should have been the pick. I don't care that four other teams that could have picked him also chose not to.,

I don't know if he should have been the pick, we wont know for sure for awhile yet and those acting like they know are just guessing.

Time will tell...hell, there might be a guy picked later who will prove better than all of them.

Will y’all be as distraught then?

What if Ryan Leonard ends up being a physical, perennial 40 goal scorer?

Funny I don't hear or read any angst about that.

The way y'all been hyping Michkov, he better be generational, or else im asking questions.

The first 4 teams got arguably better or similar value, without the "risk", the only teams that passed on him are Montréal and the Yotes.

And how do we know this?

 

[Miller Time]

It's almost as if people don't understand what the draft is...

Just go back and look at the last decade. There literally hasn't been 1 draft in that time were a number of players drafted lower than 5th ended up being much better than the 5OA pick (& often the 2nd or 3rd best player was picked well below).

We are at least 2 or 3 years away from having a good sense of which players emerge as the next best NHLers after Bedard.

Being upset about Michkov at this point makes little sense.

 

[Mrb1p]

But it's a fact.

If indeed Michkov ends up being amazing, there will have been up to 6 teams to have passed on him.

Its just that it seems, if you listen to Habs fans, that the Montreal Canadiens specifically and exclusively passed on drafting him.

Almost like he was meant for them and they decided to turn the other cheek.

There were reasons why he dropped to 7th, those existed then and they still exist today.

Well doesn't that justify them NOT selecting him then?

The history attributed to prior administrations belongs to those administrations, not sure what it has to do with what the Habs did last year.

It didn't matter the year before where they drafted the player that, today, everyone agrees was the best player/forward to have been picked.

It didn't matter that at the time, a lot of of the same folks crying foul over the Habs passing on Michkov because he's coming to North America, thought Cooley or Wright, were better options.

And I must have missed Michkov’s…

Yes unfortunate history that will hopefully change.

If Michkov ends up being amazing, I’ll be upset for having passed on him as well.

It doesn't change from the fact that SEVERAL teams passed on him, not exclusively the Habs.

3 teams realistically passed on him. I had him 2nd but any argument could've been made for Fantilli and Carlsson and I would've heard them. San Jose picking Smith, us Reinbacher and Arizona Simashev is totally inexcusable.

You can note that I was the first person to rank Reinbacher at 5 on HFboards, so it's not like I don't like the kid. I love him. It was just a clear top 4.

I don't understand your argument, you're trying to excuse HuGos mistakes because a Mickey Mouse organization like the Yotes picked Simashev ahead of him? Or you're taking the angle that there *must* be some underlying drama?

 

[417]

Technically, one other team passed on Michkov, if it comes down to that. There was mostly consensus on who the top 4 players to leave the board would be and it played out exactly in that manner.

All due respect

F**k consensus cause the consensus almost always ends up being wrong.

Its ok to just allow things to play out and not prognosticate every single thing.

There's even a scenario where Michkov ends ups being amazing and Reinbacher still ends up being the right pick for the Montreal Canadiens.

 

[Mrb1p]

All due respect

F**k consensus cause the consensus almost always ends up being wrong.

Its ok to just allow things to play out and not prognosticate every single thing.

There's even a scenario where Michkov ends ups being amazing and Reinbacher still ends up being the right pick for the Montreal Canadiens.

Cope, at best. We passed on an offensive star and we're gonna be stuck in limbo.

 

[417]

3 teams realistically passed on him. I had him 2nd but any argument could've been made for Fantilli and Carlsson and I would've heard them. San Jose picking Smith, us Reinbacher and Arizona Simashev is totally inexcusable.

You can note that I was the first person to rank Reinbacher at 5 on HFboards, so it's not like I don't like the kid. I love him. It was just a clear top 4.

I don't understand your argument, you're trying to excuse HuGos mistakes because a Mickey Mouse organization like the Yotes picked Simashev ahead of him? Or you're taking the angle that there *must* be some underlying drama?

I'm arguing against the notion that the Habs passed on drafting him exclusively, if he's as good as y'all claim he is, he wouldn't have been available for them to pass.

Point blank.

Also I wasn't aware that this was considered a mistake already.

Cope, at best. We passed on an offensive star and we're gonna be stuck in limbo.

And we drafted an all time bust in 2022.

Until we didn't.

Again, all due respect.

But y’all don't know shit (myself included )

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm arguing against the notion that the Habs passed on drafting him exclusively, if he's as good as y'all claim he is, he wouldn't have been available for them to pass.

Point blank.

Also I wasn't aware that this was considered a mistake already.

Russophobia and size centrism are a hell of a drug. Are you really surprised he fell? Benson also fell, does it look like a mistake now? It happens every year.

Isnt there a world where he's as good as we say he is and NHL execs are just plain stupid?

 

[417]

Russophobia and size centrism are a hell of a drug. Are you really surprised he fell? Benson also fell, does it look like a mistake now? It happens every year.

Isnt there a world where he's as good as we say he is and NHL execs are just plain stupid?

Life isn't right unless you're mad at something eh?

My gosh lol

Could never be me.

 

[Miller Time]

Russophobia and size centrism are a hell of a drug. Are you really surprised he fell? Benson also fell, does it look like a mistake now? It happens every year.

Isnt there a world where he's as good as we say he is and NHL execs are just plain stupid?

Is that what the yotes did in passing on Michkov as well

 

[The Great Weal]

But it's a fact.

Alright, let me put it this way. If we drafted Newhook instead of Caufield, you excusing the pick by saying “well other teams also passed on Caufield” would also be a fact, but how many times can we use this argument until we acknowledge that maybe it’s a scouting issue? We could also be saying that “well other teams also passed on Oettinger/Robertson so us drafting Poehling puts us in the same boat as others” and “well other teams also passed on Theodore so us drafting McCarron is okay”…etc. Again, you’re not going to hit on every pick, but at what point do you stop using this argument and expect your scouts to hit on these picks every once in a while? And if you believe that using this argument for every pick is acceptable, why should any scout ever get fired? Better yet, why even have scouts at all since for every team that hits on a pick, many other teams failed to hit on that pick so it’s okay?

This is not to say that we have never hit on a pick in recent years(Caufield is a prime example), but we do need a lot more from the scouts considering we’ve been a non-playoff team for a while and are still looking for more high end talent compared to most other teams. My point isn’t about Michkov specifically here, it’s about your argument.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm arguing against the notion that the Habs passed on drafting him exclusively, if he's as good as y'all claim he is, he wouldn't have been available for them to pass.

Point blank.

Also I wasn't aware that this was considered a mistake already.


And we drafted an all time bust in 2022.

Until we didn't.

Again, all due respect.

But y’all don't know shit (myself included )

The problem is you live in a world where guys like Juolevi, Kotkaniemi, Turcotte, Andersson, Jessiman and the likes get drafted high and above very good players by actual execs.

I agree with the notion that we don't know shit, but I disagree with the notion that they know shit.

 

[Whitesnake]

But if those 4 players, according to you, were all consensus better options.

Doesn't it justify or explain them passing too, not to mention Arizona?

Either way I agree in the end, they better have been right whether that's Michkov or anyone picked after Reinbacher.

Its just somewhere along the line, Habs fans adopted the notion that Michkov was destined to be a Hab, and now they're throwing a hissy fit because he's coming to NA.

Yawn

Because of the only few reasons people were at ease with not picking the best player available was his date of arrival. Remove that...and what's left? What left between not picking a true offensive player vs a need on the back end that is still unknown especially in the offensive side of it.

So yes, there will be hissy fits and it's totally normal. I will bet also that there will be some amongst the scouting group. And yes, not only for us but for everybody that some teams will win at draft day, some teams will win based on how soon a prospect reach the NHL and does well. And some will win later based on how their prospect develop.

It's really nothing different. One day, we had won the Galchy draft. Till we didn't. One day, we had won the JK draft. Till we didn't. One day, we were stupid with the Price pick...till we didn't.

I wonder why this Mickhov thing seems new to some.....Yes, at that time, it looks a bad pick to go with Reinbacher. Yes, we were reassured based on maybe not seeing Michkov till 2026. Yes, it looks bad if finally Michkov could be in the NHL before Reinbacher. And yes, it might not feel as bad if Reinbacher plays a key role albeit on a 2nd pairing with us winning the Cup.....

 

[417]

Isnt there a world where he's as good as we say he is and NHL execs are just plain stupid?

There's also a world where like in 2022, you don't know WTF you're talking about.

You'd think you'd learn to just allow things to play out, but nah, there's always a cloud out to yell at!

 

[Whitesnake]

The problem is you live in a world where guys like Juolevi, Kotkaniemi, Turcotte, Andersson, Jessiman and the likes get drafted high and above very good players by actual execs.

I agree with the notion that we don't know shit, but I disagree with the notion that they know shit.

Somehow though it seems that posters live on different standards. Tougher ones. And the only reasons why it's because we're....reachable...lol. It makes no sense that while we do say we openly know less than the pros, that we're suppose to have as good as their record....

 

[Mrb1p]

Is that what the yotes did in passing on Michkov as well

They picked the 6'03 defender, so yes. I know you probably can't identify if Simashev fits in the "size-centrism" but yes, he does.

 

[417]

Alright, let me put it this way. If we drafted Newhook instead of Caufield, you excusing the pick by saying “well other teams also passed on Caufield” would also be a fact, but how many times can we use this argument until we acknowledge that maybe it’s a scouting issue? We could also be saying that “well other teams also passed on Oettinger/Robertson so us drafting Poehling puts us in the same boat as others” and “well other teams also passed on Theodore so us drafting McCarron is okay”…etc. Again, you’re not going to hit on every pick, but at what point do you stop using this argument and expect your scouts to hit on these picks every once in a while? And if you believe that using this argument for every pick is acceptable, why should any scout ever get fired? Better yet, why even have scouts at all since for every team that hits on a pick, many other teams failed to hit on that pick so it’s okay?

This is not to say that we have never hit on a pick in recent years(Caufield is a prime example), but we do need a lot more from the scouts considering we’ve been a non-playoff team for a while and are still looking for more high end talent compared to most other teams. My point isn’t about Michkov specifically here, it’s about your argument.

I haven't excused anyone lol.

 

[Miller Time]

Alright, let me put it this way. If we drafted Newhook instead of Caufield, you excusing the pick by saying “well other teams also passed on Caufield” would also be a fact, but how many times can we use this argument until we acknowledge that maybe it’s a scouting issue? We could also be saying that “well other teams also passed on Oettinger/Robertson so us drafting Poehling puts us in the same boat as others” and “well other teams also passed on Theodore so us drafting McCarron is okay”…etc. Again, you’re not going to hit on every pick, but at what point do you stop using this argument and expect your scouts to hit on these picks every once in a while? And if you believe that using this argument for every pick is acceptable, why should any scout ever get fired? Better yet, why even have scouts at all since for every team that hits on a pick, many other teams failed to hit on that pick so it’s okay?

This is not to say that we have never hit on a pick in recent years(Caufield is a prime example), but we do need a lot more from the scouts considering we’ve been a non-playoff team for a while and are still looking for more high end talent compared to most other teams. My point isn’t about Michkov specifically here, it’s about your argument.

The question is why/how are you so confident that our scouts have missed on their recent picks?

Is there some crystal ball I'm missing that has already decided who from the '22 & '23 draft are annointed as the top NHLers, because aside from Bedard & Slaf, not sure that anyone from those drafts look like locks to be first line or top pairing NHLer just yet

 

[Mrb1p]

There's also a world where like in 2022, you don't know WTF you're talking about.

You'd think you'd learn to just allow things to play out, but nah, there's always a cloud out to yell at!

Things to play out? I enjoy making a call and actually putting myself out there, I enjoy scouting players.

I'll raise the irony of calling it done when it's convenient to you though. Is it written in stone that Slaf is going to be the best player in the draft?

 

[The Great Weal]

I haven't excused anyone lol.

You completely missed the point of the post there. The fact that you didn't entirely address my entire post tells me that you know your argument is flawed because it can't be applied to every pick continuously.

 

[417]

The problem is you live in a world where guys like Juolevi, Kotkaniemi, Turcotte, Andersson, Jessiman and the likes get drafted high and above very good players by actual execs.

I agree with the notion that we don't know shit, but I disagree with the notion that they know shit.

I disagree with the notion of saying someone failed at something, before I know that to be absolutely true.

 

[billy piton]

They picked the 6'03 defender, so yes. I know you probably can't identify if Simashev fits in the "size-centrism" but yes, he does.

but they've picked midget cooley with third?

 

[Miller Time]

They picked the 6'03 defender, so yes. I know you probably can't identify if Simashev fits in the "size-centrism" but yes, he does.

6'2 at draft. The average height of NHL dmen.

And the russaphobe part?

Lol. Swing and a miss again.