Olympics: Czech Olympic Team 2022

Czechboy

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Hokej fokus podcast: Pešánova pozice, výkony opor a konec nálepky velmoci

Czech podcast talking about Olympics.

Interesting things vs NHL podcasts... not one fancy stat, no real mention of 5 on 5. Just grit and speed. Same criticism's you'd make in the 80's using plus/minu, goals and assists. It's all about 'gut' feeling. Only one that tried to bring that was Kuchar and you could see Antos was getting annoyed.lol

3 guys from Sparta but not Chlapik is just amazing.

They did talk about how putting Sobotka/Cervenka/Kovar together was not the best idea.
 
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Czechboy

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Funny stat that has come out of Olympics... from Bukac... Slovaks have 10 guys from Extraliga on their team... more than us.

FTR.. Antos talking the most and his big point is needs more Extraliga guys. Should've brought extraliga D and goalies. Super... I guess he doesn't know the Extraliga is an old man retirement club. Frolik will lead it in scoring next season.
 
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Elias40

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Jan 3, 2020
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Funny stat that has come out of Olympics... from Bukac... Slovaks have 10 guys from Extraliga on their team... more than us.

FTR.. Antos talking the most and his big point is needs more Extraliga guys. Should've brought extraliga D and goalies. Super... I guess he doesn't know the Extraliga is an old man retirement club. Frolik will lead it in scoring next season.


Thanks, when the Frölunda - Oskarshamn match is over, then I'll let it go. I have read several interviews with Antos about the Olympics, Pesan and failure ... and I have the impression that it is not the same Antos as before the Olympics. He would leave Pesano until the end of the contract, practically no criticism ... so I wonder if he is waiting for work from the union, that he is careful in his statements.

Otherwise, in this round, SHL has so far scored for Jontahan Lekkerimäki, 17 matches for the last team, yet a decent 5 goals. And Elmer Söderblom has already scored 16 goals in 30 matches, year 2000 ... Marko Kasper also scored for Rögle today, he also scored five goals. When clubs have the courage, it's easy ..
 
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Czechboy

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Thanks, when the Frölund - Oskarshamn match is over, then I'll let it go. I have read several interviews with Antos about the Olympics, Pesan and failure ... and I have the impression that it is not the same Antos as before the Olympics. He would leave Pesano until the end of the contract, practically no criticism ... so I wonder if he is waiting for work from the union, that he is careful in his statements.

Otherwise, in this round, SHL has so far scored for Jontahan Lekkerimäki, 17 matches for the last team, yet a decent 5 goals. And Elmer Söderblom has already scored 16 goals in 30 matches, year 2000 ... Marko Kasper also scored for Rögle today, he also scored five goals. When clubs have the courage, it's easy ..
He starts by making great points... Too old and poor choices. Then he points out firing Kral won't do anything because there are 3 guys beneath Kral that will still make the same decisions. Then he goes onto say that 10 years is a long time to suck at your jobs. All great points!

He mentions we have the coaches and the D to win but don't pick them. All great points.

They mention Jerabek doesnt play powerplay in Spartak so why did he at start of tourney here? Where did that come from? All great points.

He smashed the play ins for chance league because they brought in 40 year olds that can't play and benched the young kids. Again.. great points!!!

Then the solution is to kick out Slovaks and use young Czechs as fourth liners in extraliga. Oops..lost me there! NO TEEN improves playing 10 minutes a night and it not an honor to play 10 a night in extraliga. It's a disservice! They need to be in special teams and playing the important minutes! If there is no room for that on an extraliga team then they need to go elsewhere.

Don't bring goalies from other leagues was interesting too. It was a lot of extraliga has the answers. I disagree... Today's extraliga had 2 answers... Blumel and chlapik. That's it. It's a very poor league with old players and foreigners. Lost the path. To many teams and corrupt owners.

They kept pointing to Slovakia's tremendous success.. they played young and with a foreign coach. Fine.. I say this with no disrespect... But Ramsay has had more losses and failure then wins. It's great they are in semis in this very weird tourney but this is below worlds and Olympics for calibre. I'm happy for them but let's not look at 2 weeks here as the ultimate success.

And as I rant... I read we are considering a finn coach.lol.

The only good argument for a foreign coach was that he won't be corrupt and pick the best team as the Czech guys seem to have side deals going on. If you want him.. then you have to take him too. It feels like not all roster selections are based on merit but more corruption and back dealings.

Things like Jerabek as a 24 minute dman and on PP.

Sparta Sobotka in top 6, powerplay and 3 on 3.

Repik because he was good four years ago.

Hrubec no matter what.

Lenc because he heated up on an EHT 2 seasons ago.

They seem to focus on all the wrong things.

This tourney, for instance, is a close games. Slovaks were 1 minute from elimination.

A few small changes and we could've won. Chlapik and jasek in top 6. Maybe a Kase in bottom 6.

Also, why a top 6 and bottom 6. We are just confused but words like 5 on 5 or Corsi or anything was not even touched upon.

Pick some buddies... Look at plus minus and and points. Good luck.

Ok... Done ranting.
 

RBbandit

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Jan 4, 2020
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Not sure if it was in this podcast or some recent news article but someone mentioned that Ludek Bukač met with His Majesty King when King was elected as president of a hockey federation probably 15 years ago. And Mr. Bukač offered to prepare a whole detailed conception of youth development which he rightly claimed is the most difficult and crucial element of the future progress of Czech hockey. No one is probably surprised today His Majesty rejected the offer and a few days later announced that such a crucial document will prepare Mr. Přerost. Same Přerost who coached U20 for way too many years and is still in some position somewhere.
 
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Wooren

no longer perennial 4th place losers
May 17, 2015
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Nothing lasts forever. Is it possible Czech hockey simply never recovers and proceeds to fall even further into mediocrity? What's the initiative to put your kids in hockey when it's such a corrupt and toxic place, nevermind the astronomic costs? Who can the kids even look up to these days? Failure after failure, year after year. Occasional elite prospects busting and becoming average NHLers at best. Former STB agent in the head of the federation. Incompetent morons getting cruical job positions in the hockey infrastructure for no other reason than having the right friends.

Just yesterday I thought about how decimated Czech hockey has truly gotten over the past 15 years. Almost shed a tear. Over the past 7 years of being here on HFB, I have gone from hope, to anger, to currently just sadness and hopelessness. Indifference is next.
 

Elias40

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Jan 3, 2020
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Not sure if it was in this podcast or some recent news article but someone mentioned that Ludek Bukač met with His Majesty King when King was elected as president of a hockey federation probably 15 years ago. And Mr. Bukač offered to prepare a whole detailed conception of youth development which he rightly claimed is the most difficult and crucial element of the future progress of Czech hockey. No one is probably surprised today His Majesty rejected the offer and a few days later announced that such a crucial document will prepare Mr. Přerost. Same Přerost who coached U20 for way too many years and is still in some position somewhere.


Yes, I wrote it, I drew this information directly from Bukač's autobiography. There are more similar things, a beautiful chapter is devoted to the fall of communism and the influence of finance on hockey at all levels. As money slowly and creepingly destroyed Czech hockey, new freedom for all people, but no more duties and worries about keeping the level of hockey at a high level. And also the rise of countries like Germany, where the Germans understood what would lead them to better hockey and what approach the Germans should have. And do you know why Bukač could so openly afford to criticize people in the hockey movement? Because he was not dependent on them for their existence, which is something that will allow us to take a different view or view of the direction in which hockey should go. Luděk Bukač played, coached and educated and directly influenced dozens of people in Czechoslovak and then Czech hockey. He was an educated man, cultivated and open to current views and trends. And now compare this man with who and how runs hockey and who has ambitions to take the presidency in the summer. Power struggles, behind-the-scenes games and crooked character ... but as long as hockey draws money from the state to run, these people will never leave. They keep their finger on the pulse of the federation, they decide everything and don't let anyone in, it's a closed circle.

The King and his people will make an enormous effort not to hold elections. The only thing that interests them is the year 2024 and the World Cup. The last tournament in the Czech Republic brought the federation a profit of 300 million Czech crowns. At the end of the tournament, a press conference was convened, where Kral announced what the federation wants to do with this money and how to use the profit. He literally said that investing in the medium term in the purchase of equipment for young children, doubling the amount of money for youth support clubs, projects of regional coaches and professional coaches for youth in clubs. Cut, over.

We have the year 2022, in a few months it will be seven years since the king said he would use the money. Does the fan have the impression that Czech youth hockey is on the rise? Does it produce interesting players in much greater numbers for the draft than before 2015? If it wasn't for the strong 99, it would be sad and tragic. Does one see new stadiums in cities that potentially attract new hockey players? I don't think, thanks to the covid and the interruption of the competitions, there are currently about ten srtadions in a state of disrepair, and some of them are even due to close. Have the salaries of youth coaches risen to such a level that these people do not have to have youth training as their second job? These are all specific questions, they can be answered but the answers will not come.

And now the main..results. There is a top5 from the first to the fifth and a second top5. From sixth to tenth. The first group takes all medals with small exceptions like the Olympics and German silver or two silver for Switzerland. Yes, it is 2019 and the fourth place for the Czech Republic, but it is an exception than the rule. U18 collected a total of 21 goals in two matches against Canada and Russia, U20 scores seven goals from Sweden, Czechs rejoice if they lose only three goals to Canada. The WJC tournament is eloquent when the Czechs defeated Finland in the raids, in that match they were only held for a long time by Korenare's goal, they were much worse in terms of games but reached the semifinals. This is a situation that should leave the Czech fan alone, because he is reconciled with the fact that his team will lose and it only depends on how many goals it will be. Resignation to improvement should never come from the federation, quite the contrary. People from here should do everything possible to restore trust between hockey and its fans. So that the fan can clap for the performance after the match, in the hope that the next match will be better.

I know I'm critical, sometimes too much, but just constant criticism must be the impetus for things to start moving. If the current situation persists, the goal will not be a medal but a mere advance to the quarterfinals, and this is the biggest indictment of the current leadership and a tragic business card of their long-term work.
 
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lamini

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Nov 30, 2011
444
287
Prostějov
Nothing lasts forever. Is it possible Czech hockey simply never recovers and proceeds to fall even further into mediocrity? What's the initiative to put your kids in hockey when it's such a corrupt and toxic place, nevermind the astronomic costs? Who can the kids even look up to these days? Failure after failure, year after year. Occasional elite prospects busting and becoming average NHLers at best. Former STB agent in the head of the federation. Incompetent morons getting cruical job positions in the hockey infrastructure for no other reason than having the right friends.

Just yesterday I thought about how decimated Czech hockey has truly gotten over the past 15 years. Almost shed a tear. Over the past 7 years of being here on HFB, I have gone from hope, to anger, to currently just sadness and hopelessness. Indifference is next.

TBH I think we reached the bottom or we are close to it. Almost all our good/decent players developed despite our hockey federation, not thanks to it. We will be in group of teams that will reach QF in a good year, even SF sometimes, we will have some NHL talent, just not much and mostly 3rd-4th line. There will be more D tier Canadians in Extraliga and people in power will still cry they need more money to develop young players....as soon as they get them, they will use them to get another D tier Canadian player (I know you can't use money from goverment that way, but we are in CR, they will always find a way how to do it)
 

Swipes

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Apr 13, 2010
1,708
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Nothing lasts forever. Is it possible Czech hockey simply never recovers and proceeds to fall even further into mediocrity? What's the initiative to put your kids in hockey when it's such a corrupt and toxic place, nevermind the astronomic costs? Who can the kids even look up to these days? Failure after failure, year after year. Occasional elite prospects busting and becoming average NHLers at best. Former STB agent in the head of the federation. Incompetent morons getting cruical job positions in the hockey infrastructure for no other reason than having the right friends.

Just yesterday I thought about how decimated Czech hockey has truly gotten over the past 15 years. Almost shed a tear. Over the past 7 years of being here on HFB, I have gone from hope, to anger, to currently just sadness and hopelessness. Indifference is next.

Certainly a lot of children are now playing floorball instead as a result of this and we're seeing how quickly we are improving there. I would not be surprised if we brought back a gold medal this year. It's sad how quickly we can get good at one sport while in another we continue to fall lower and lower thanks to the corruption of Kral and Co.
 

Swipes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Not sure if it was in this podcast or some recent news article but someone mentioned that Ludek Bukač met with His Majesty King when King was elected as president of a hockey federation probably 15 years ago. And Mr. Bukač offered to prepare a whole detailed conception of youth development which he rightly claimed is the most difficult and crucial element of the future progress of Czech hockey. No one is probably surprised today His Majesty rejected the offer and a few days later announced that such a crucial document will prepare Mr. Přerost. Same Přerost who coached U20 for way too many years and is still in some position somewhere.

Yes, Elias40 mentioned it. It's very sad. Přerost is running the Litomerice academy afaik.
 

Swipes

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Apr 13, 2010
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481
Yes, I wrote it, I drew this information directly from Bukač's autobiography. There are more similar things, a beautiful chapter is devoted to the fall of communism and the influence of finance on hockey at all levels. As money slowly and creepingly destroyed Czech hockey, new freedom for all people, but no more duties and worries about keeping the level of hockey at a high level. And also the rise of countries like Germany, where the Germans understood what would lead them to better hockey and what approach the Germans should have. And do you know why Bukač could so openly afford to criticize people in the hockey movement? Because he was not dependent on them for their existence, which is something that will allow us to take a different view or view of the direction in which hockey should go. Luděk Bukač played, coached and educated and directly influenced dozens of people in Czechoslovak and then Czech hockey. He was an educated man, cultivated and open to current views and trends. And now compare this man with who and how runs hockey and who has ambitions to take the presidency in the summer. Power struggles, behind-the-scenes games and crooked character ... but as long as hockey draws money from the state to run, these people will never leave. They keep their finger on the pulse of the federation, they decide everything and don't let anyone in, it's a closed circle.

The King and his people will make an enormous effort not to hold elections. The only thing that interests them is the year 2024 and the World Cup. The last tournament in the Czech Republic brought the federation a profit of 300 million Czech crowns. At the end of the tournament, a press conference was convened, where Kral announced what the federation wants to do with this money and how to use the profit. He literally said that investing in the medium term in the purchase of equipment for young children, doubling the amount of money for youth support clubs, projects of regional coaches and professional coaches for youth in clubs. Cut, over.

We have the year 2022, in a few months it will be seven years since the king said he would use the money. Does the fan have the impression that Czech youth hockey is on the rise? Does it produce interesting players in much greater numbers for the draft than before 2015? If it wasn't for the strong 99, it would be sad and tragic. Does one see new stadiums in cities that potentially attract new hockey players? I don't think, thanks to the covid and the interruption of the competitions, there are currently about ten srtadions in a state of disrepair, and some of them are even due to close. Have the salaries of youth coaches risen to such a level that these people do not have to have youth training as their second job? These are all specific questions, they can be answered but the answers will not come.

And now the main..results. There is a top5 from the first to the fifth and a second top5. From sixth to tenth. The first group takes all medals with small exceptions like the Olympics and German silver or two silver for Switzerland. Yes, it is 2019 and the fourth place for the Czech Republic, but it is an exception than the rule. U18 collected a total of 21 goals in two matches against Canada and Russia, U20 scores seven goals from Sweden, Czechs rejoice if they lose only three goals to Canada. The WJC tournament is eloquent when the Czechs defeated Finland in the raids, in that match they were only held for a long time by Korenare's goal, they were much worse in terms of games but reached the semifinals. This is a situation that should leave the Czech fan alone, because he is reconciled with the fact that his team will lose and it only depends on how many goals it will be. Resignation to improvement should never come from the federation, quite the contrary. People from here should do everything possible to restore trust between hockey and its fans. So that the fan can clap for the performance after the match, in the hope that the next match will be better.

I know I'm critical, sometimes too much, but just constant criticism must be the impetus for things to start moving. If the current situation persists, the goal will not be a medal but a mere advance to the quarterfinals, and this is the biggest indictment of the current leadership and a tragic business card of their long-term work.

Nice post. I'll need to take a look at his autobiography, it must be a great read. I think the best we as fans can do is criticise and draw attention to the problem.

I think there is a very real danger of accepting and normalising the fact that we are no longer a hockey power so it's ok to not be in the QF every year. If it gets really bad I even feel they won't care if we drop out of the elite division, it did happen at the U18 level in 2007 I think?
 
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Elias40

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Jan 3, 2020
603
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Nice post. I'll need to take a look at his autobiography, it must be a great read. I think the best we as fans can do is criticise and draw attention to the problem.

I think there is a very real danger of accepting and normalising the fact that we are no longer a hockey power so it's ok to not be in the QF every year. If it gets really bad I even feel they won't care if we drop out of the elite division, it did happen at the U18 level in 2007 I think?

Go and definitely buy the book, the price is ridiculous and it's also quite often a retrospective look at hockey as it has evolved over the years. The part about the Soviet legend Anatoly Tarasov is very interesting, but I won't tell you more, no spoiler !!!

Hockey and its development is a wonderful example of how inspiring personalities can lead it. Whether it was the time when the Soviets first entered the world stage, huge performance differences from the 60's to the late 1980s, when medals were collected regularly by only three teams until Canada sober up for the 1998 Olympics. The American NTDP team is inspired by a purely Soviet style, added modern elements of the game to it, but the main idea comes from the Soviets. The rise of the Swedes first and then the Finns, all thanks to one magic word - cooperation. Now I would say that Belarus and Germany can also shuffle cards with their powerplay26. Slovakia has been leading Ramsay for the fifth year in a row and today it has achieved historic success, with average players but the courage to go on the ice and not wait for what the opponent will do. And this Olympics also showed without NHL players that the medal circle of candidates is significantly wider than usual.

My opinion is that even a possible descent of the U18 into the B category will not be the impulse for some people to leave their place and leave it to new people. The U18 category is not central to the federation and the drawdown, it is just an adult team. If the senior team fell into the B category, most sponsors and partners would completely give up financial support and that would be a really big problem. Paradoxically, a home championship in two years can prolong the death toll, because if it is with the spectators (which is generally expected), it promises a profit. But as history has shown, there is plenty of reason to doubt that this time it will be different. There has been a tough fight for this gain since this summer, and the situation is such that some people are taking hockey hostage.

The U18 relegation in 2007 came at a bad time as the older and successful generation of players ended and the general opinion was that it would return in two years because the B category is weak. If we look at Sweden, they realized the coming problem even when their U20 team played retention matches. They already knew that the year would have problems, but they did not pay for it with the descent. And in this brief overview, we see how both federations have approached the coming problems. It was at this time that Bukač had to take over the concept of youth with his experience, which he gained throughout his time in hockey in various positions. But the federation itself threw this possibility into the trash, and at that time the criterion for working for the federation was no longer expertise but rather acquaintances and good relations.

That there aren't as many players in the NHL as around 2000 is not such a problem for hockey. The problem arises when there are not enough quality players in their own league or in other European leagues. This returns remotely in a tournament such as the World Cup, because it is not possible to form a team for the tournament only from NHL players, players from Europe must complete it. This has been going on for a long time, but even these players are slowly ending..Červenka, Frolík, Sobotka, Řepík and others..and there is no one to add these players. And the EHT results this season confirm this, but I would be careful here because the EHT tournaments are not an objective enough criterion for evaluating hockey in the country. And so Czech hockey is trapped, now it can no longer rely on quality in European leagues as in the past, it is in my opinion impossible to repeat the 2010 win.

Nevertheless, I think that the federation could and had several options to save the situation or at least slow down. The problem starts already in the league, which is rather slow in terms of gaming, it is played at a slower pace than the Nordic leagues or NL. And this is what will eventually affect the quality of the player in NT. What I don't understand too much and it still takes is the popularity of players who keep the puck on the stick for too long, but in the final it is inefficient and rather the team wastes time. Compared to Czech players, the Swiss are generally considered to be less individually capable, they make fewer loops and they combine less. And they are also consistent in every aspect of the game, which is based on mentality. It doesn't matter if it is a training exercise or a match, the Swiss will not dare to cheat or relieve anything. People call it a habit, but in the Czech hockey dictionary this word appears minimally. So before the duel, the Swiss had a sharp training unit focusing on duel in the corner, where then in the match the Czechs got exactly into this area and thus eliminated their combination. Pesan gave the players the freedom to do whatever they wanted ... but this approach is only valid if the team wins and the coach prepares them for a playoff match. And the result and performance on the ice showed exactly what the Swiss can do if they realize their mistakes. They were precise in every zone, there was no lost puck for them and they did not go into passivity in the lead for the goal but continued to play actively. The reward for them was a win.
 
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Czechboy

Easy schedules rule!
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Nice post. I'll need to take a look at his autobiography, it must be a great read. I think the best we as fans can do is criticise and draw attention to the problem.

I think there is a very real danger of accepting and normalising the fact that we are no longer a hockey power so it's ok to not be in the QF every year. If it gets really bad I even feel they won't care if we drop out of the elite division, it did happen at the U18 level in 2007 I think?
I see it as 2 problems...

1. we are corrupt and have idiots in charge and poor development (that is a big problem and will be very hard to fix as it is political in nature)
2. Slovaks just bronzed with a roster that had maybe 4 guys that would make our team. Germans did it the last Olympics too. We need a Czech Jalonen because we still have depth and talent for the 'other 5'. This is a small problem and comes down to a bad GM and coach. We still have the players to win a World's or Olympics. Not a best on best. We are being outworked by players with less pedigree than us.
 

Czechboy

Easy schedules rule!
Apr 15, 2018
23,207
19,231
Go and definitely buy the book, the price is ridiculous and it's also quite often a retrospective look at hockey as it has evolved over the years. The part about the Soviet legend Anatoly Tarasov is very interesting, but I won't tell you more, no spoiler !!!

Hockey and its development is a wonderful example of how inspiring personalities can lead it. Whether it was the time when the Soviets first entered the world stage, huge performance differences from the 60's to the late 1980s, when medals were collected regularly by only three teams until Canada sober up for the 1998 Olympics. The American NTDP team is inspired by a purely Soviet style, added modern elements of the game to it, but the main idea comes from the Soviets. The rise of the Swedes first and then the Finns, all thanks to one magic word - cooperation. Now I would say that Belarus and Germany can also shuffle cards with their powerplay26. Slovakia has been leading Ramsay for the fifth year in a row and today it has achieved historic success, with average players but the courage to go on the ice and not wait for what the opponent will do. And this Olympics also showed without NHL players that the medal circle of candidates is significantly wider than usual.

My opinion is that even a possible descent of the U18 into the B category will not be the impulse for some people to leave their place and leave it to new people. The U18 category is not central to the federation and the drawdown, it is just an adult team. If the senior team fell into the B category, most sponsors and partners would completely give up financial support and that would be a really big problem. Paradoxically, a home championship in two years can prolong the death toll, because if it is with the spectators (which is generally expected), it promises a profit. But as history has shown, there is plenty of reason to doubt that this time it will be different. There has been a tough fight for this gain since this summer, and the situation is such that some people are taking hockey hostage.

The U18 relegation in 2007 came at a bad time as the older and successful generation of players ended and the general opinion was that it would return in two years because the B category is weak. If we look at Sweden, they realized the coming problem even when their U20 team played retention matches. They already knew that the year would have problems, but they did not pay for it with the descent. And in this brief overview, we see how both federations have approached the coming problems. It was at this time that Bukač had to take over the concept of youth with his experience, which he gained throughout his time in hockey in various positions. But the federation itself threw this possibility into the trash, and at that time the criterion for working for the federation was no longer expertise but rather acquaintances and good relations.

That there aren't as many players in the NHL as around 2000 is not such a problem for hockey. The problem arises when there are not enough quality players in their own league or in other European leagues. This returns remotely in a tournament such as the World Cup, because it is not possible to form a team for the tournament only from NHL players, players from Europe must complete it. This has been going on for a long time, but even these players are slowly ending..Červenka, Frolík, Sobotka, Řepík and others..and there is no one to add these players. And the EHT results this season confirm this, but I would be careful here because the EHT tournaments are not an objective enough criterion for evaluating hockey in the country. And so Czech hockey is trapped, now it can no longer rely on quality in European leagues as in the past, it is in my opinion impossible to repeat the 2010 win.

Nevertheless, I think that the federation could and had several options to save the situation or at least slow down. The problem starts already in the league, which is rather slow in terms of gaming, it is played at a slower pace than the Nordic leagues or NL. And this is what will eventually affect the quality of the player in NT. What I don't understand too much and it still takes is the popularity of players who keep the puck on the stick for too long, but in the final it is inefficient and rather the team wastes time. Compared to Czech players, the Swiss are generally considered to be less individually capable, they make fewer loops and they combine less. And they are also consistent in every aspect of the game, which is based on mentality. It doesn't matter if it is a training exercise or a match, the Swiss will not dare to cheat or relieve anything. People call it a habit, but in the Czech hockey dictionary this word appears minimally. So before the duel, the Swiss had a sharp training unit focusing on duel in the corner, where then in the match the Czechs got exactly into this area and thus eliminated their combination. Pesan gave the players the freedom to do whatever they wanted ... but this approach is only valid if the team wins and the coach prepares them for a playoff match. And the result and performance on the ice showed exactly what the Swiss can do if they realize their mistakes. They were precise in every zone, there was no lost puck for them and they did not go into passivity in the lead for the goal but continued to play actively. The reward for them was a win.
All great points. Thank You.

EHT results can only hurt us... it's how we got Lenc on the team or Jakub Kovar as our starter over an NHL goalie.

The fact they did one old and one young was kind of stupid too.

I hope this and our new ranking wake people up a bit!

The extraliga is a sham really - no good Czechs in it for the future. Jiricek and Kulich will be gone Blumel might leave too! Chlapik on his way to NLA.

I'm not joking when I say that I think Frolik will lead the league in scoring next season... you constantly see these old legends dominating this league. That doesn't help anything or anyone. Happy for the legends as they are some of my fav players of course. But, just a car crash of a league.

upload_2022-2-19_13-58-51.png


One Czech in top 20 under 25.

13 Czechs and 7 Foreigners... mostly over 30 to 40.

The answer is not in the Extrliga. The answer is not in sitting guys on 4th lines for 50 games so they learn the game.

I'm genuinely happy for young Czechs when they leave now. I don't blame them. If my son was elite and had an NHL chance, we're gone too!
 

Czechboy

Easy schedules rule!
Apr 15, 2018
23,207
19,231
upload_2022-2-19_14-2-10.png


U22 scorers in Extraliga... YIKES!!!

For fun, here is the over 35 crew.lol

upload_2022-2-19_14-3-25.png
 

Elias40

Registered User
Jan 3, 2020
603
323
All great points. Thank You.

EHT results can only hurt us... it's how we got Lenc on the team or Jakub Kovar as our starter over an NHL goalie.

The fact they did one old and one young was kind of stupid too.

I hope this and our new ranking wake people up a bit!

The extraliga is a sham really - no good Czechs in it for the future. Jiricek and Kulich will be gone Blumel might leave too! Chlapik on his way to NLA.

I'm not joking when I say that I think Frolik will lead the league in scoring next season... you constantly see these old legends dominating this league. That doesn't help anything or anyone. Happy for the legends as they are some of my fav players of course. But, just a car crash of a league.

View attachment 508768

One Czech in top 20 under 25.

13 Czechs and 7 Foreigners... mostly over 30 to 40.

The answer is not in the Extrliga. The answer is not in sitting guys on 4th lines for 50 games so they learn the game.

I'm genuinely happy for young Czechs when they leave now. I don't blame them. If my son was elite and had an NHL chance, we're gone too!

The problem of the extra league does not fall on the federation, these problems have been created by the clubs. I don't know if I can name the problem exactly so that it makes sense. If not, contact me and correct me. The clubs decide whether the league closes or will operate with advancement and relegation. If you close the league, you have to prepare the closing plan in advance, ideally 2-3 years before the introduction of this model. This is the first part of this solution, the second part is that the clubs follow the basic principle of this measure, in practice it means that if they want to close the league because they provide more playing time for young players, then they have to give them the chance. And now the problem is coming ... to define the word chance. My number one team in the European leagues is Frölunda, and people at this club are thinking every day about how to improve their youngsters to reach the top, help the club and then Sweden in tournaments. Dahlin, Edvinsson, Fagemo, Henriksson, Söderblom, Niederbach..these are all players who get minutes in SHL. But there is a significant difference between SHL and Extraliga. When Frölund pulls Söderblom into the first team, he is not afraid to put him on the first power play with Lundqvist or Lasch. And here Söderblom can learn how to decide the match. Henriksson often joins with Joel Lundqvist, his vast experience helping Henriksson grow into a better player in hockey. So Frölunda takes his youngsters to the first team but refuses to give them a chance in the fourth row and a few minutes in the match because they don't see the point. In the fourth row, they have Max Friberg or Mats Rosseli-Olsen, both of whom are among the oldest players on the team and evenly trying to divide game time between all attacks. Please don't take my word for it here, Lasch certainly doesn't have the same time as the third attack player, for example because Lasch is playing power play.

And similarly, all clubs in SHL try to work, because they understand that only with sufficient playing time can young people improve. During the season, it also often happens that the mad player does not have the form and the SHL club does not want to return him to the junior league, because he no longer belongs there in terms of performance and should play hockey with men. Many players then head to the Swedish Second League - Allsvenskan. And clubs in Allsvenskan also have the same approach as SHL clubs, they don't let young players in the fourth row to play four minutes a match, that's complete nonsense. But why am I writing all this ... there is more money in Swedish hockey, clubs know that it pays to give them a chance at young people and even if they go to NA after a while, it works as a positive example for other young players in the same club. Czech clubs do not do this because half of the league is afraid of relegation and the fact that if they do not play the extra league, the sponsors will leave and so will the best players. SHL is not a closed league, neither is an extra league ... so why then do young players play in large numbers in one league and not in another? It is also about the fact that in the thirty years of the Czech Republic's existence, no one has come up with a solution to reduce the table system. This is exactly the thing that clubs are responsible for and they do not want to change this system. So you see how a lot of things are connected and yet many people like this exactly and benefit from it. And as I wrote above about the fact that you need 2-3 years before the introduction of the competition to conduct a dialogue and prepare for it all the clubs concerned, similarly you need 2-3 years to prepare a plan to reduce or cancel the tables. But the topic of the tables only opens up regularly after another crash at the WJC as part of discussions about the overall problems of hockey. I believe that it is not easy for club owners to pay players at this time when they play without spectators and the revenue drops, but from Ahti Oksanen's words, some clubs will not be as bad as it is presented. Oksanen thinks that in time the Finns from Liiga will go to the extra league for money. Of course not from Kärpät, HIFK or Tappara but from Saipa, Sport or Ässat yes. And again, we are at the tables and about the chance of giving young people from our own resources. This is exactly how the Germans behaved for a long time, took a lot of Canadian, ignored their players and stayed at the bottom of the A category for a long time. They simply paid the Canadians regardless of performance and their own players. But they reconsidered this position, developed a plan for a limit for foreigners by 2026 and involved German players. Czechs go the other way, they hire average foreigners at their own expense, and that's why what I saw on your screens applies.
 

RBbandit

Registered User
Jan 4, 2020
55
56
The problem of the extra league does not fall on the federation, these problems have been created by the clubs. I don't know if I can name the problem exactly so that it makes sense. If not, contact me and correct me. The clubs decide whether the league closes or will operate with advancement and relegation. If you close the league, you have to prepare the closing plan in advance, ideally 2-3 years before the introduction of this model. This is the first part of this solution, the second part is that the clubs follow the basic principle of this measure, in practice it means that if they want to close the league because they provide more playing time for young players, then they have to give them the chance. And now the problem is coming ... to define the word chance. My number one team in the European leagues is Frölunda, and people at this club are thinking every day about how to improve their youngsters to reach the top, help the club and then Sweden in tournaments. Dahlin, Edvinsson, Fagemo, Henriksson, Söderblom, Niederbach..these are all players who get minutes in SHL. But there is a significant difference between SHL and Extraliga. When Frölund pulls Söderblom into the first team, he is not afraid to put him on the first power play with Lundqvist or Lasch. And here Söderblom can learn how to decide the match. Henriksson often joins with Joel Lundqvist, his vast experience helping Henriksson grow into a better player in hockey. So Frölunda takes his youngsters to the first team but refuses to give them a chance in the fourth row and a few minutes in the match because they don't see the point. In the fourth row, they have Max Friberg or Mats Rosseli-Olsen, both of whom are among the oldest players on the team and evenly trying to divide game time between all attacks. Please don't take my word for it here, Lasch certainly doesn't have the same time as the third attack player, for example because Lasch is playing power play.

And similarly, all clubs in SHL try to work, because they understand that only with sufficient playing time can young people improve. During the season, it also often happens that the mad player does not have the form and the SHL club does not want to return him to the junior league, because he no longer belongs there in terms of performance and should play hockey with men. Many players then head to the Swedish Second League - Allsvenskan. And clubs in Allsvenskan also have the same approach as SHL clubs, they don't let young players in the fourth row to play four minutes a match, that's complete nonsense. But why am I writing all this ... there is more money in Swedish hockey, clubs know that it pays to give them a chance at young people and even if they go to NA after a while, it works as a positive example for other young players in the same club. Czech clubs do not do this because half of the league is afraid of relegation and the fact that if they do not play the extra league, the sponsors will leave and so will the best players. SHL is not a closed league, neither is an extra league ... so why then do young players play in large numbers in one league and not in another? It is also about the fact that in the thirty years of the Czech Republic's existence, no one has come up with a solution to reduce the table system. This is exactly the thing that clubs are responsible for and they do not want to change this system. So you see how a lot of things are connected and yet many people like this exactly and benefit from it. And as I wrote above about the fact that you need 2-3 years before the introduction of the competition to conduct a dialogue and prepare for it all the clubs concerned, similarly you need 2-3 years to prepare a plan to reduce or cancel the tables. But the topic of the tables only opens up regularly after another crash at the WJC as part of discussions about the overall problems of hockey. I believe that it is not easy for club owners to pay players at this time when they play without spectators and the revenue drops, but from Ahti Oksanen's words, some clubs will not be as bad as it is presented. Oksanen thinks that in time the Finns from Liiga will go to the extra league for money. Of course not from Kärpät, HIFK or Tappara but from Saipa, Sport or Ässat yes. And again, we are at the tables and about the chance of giving young people from our own resources. This is exactly how the Germans behaved for a long time, took a lot of Canadian, ignored their players and stayed at the bottom of the A category for a long time. They simply paid the Canadians regardless of performance and their own players. But they reconsidered this position, developed a plan for a limit for foreigners by 2026 and involved German players. Czechs go the other way, they hire average foreigners at their own expense, and that's why what I saw on your screens applies.

Man, you are making too much sense, it's just depressing. We are at a point no one can pretend it's anything but corruption and greed. When fans can identify problems there is no way in hell people in power do not know.
 
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SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
11,452
5,353
U22 scorers in Extraliga... YIKES!!!
Well if you could produce at a better rate in Extraliga as a U22 you are NHL-level talent that somehow got missed. Every mid-tier country - Switzerland, Germany - is in the same situation. In the DEL there are 4 U22 players with over 10 points currently.

I'm really not sure what that's supposed to tell other than that Czech are not on par with Finland/Russia/Sweden. Which everyone knew.
 

Elias40

Registered User
Jan 3, 2020
603
323
Man, you are making too much sense, it's just depressing. We are at a point no one can pretend it's anything but corruption and greed. When fans can identify problems there is no way in hell people in power do not know.

I live in the Czech Republic and I watch hockey news every day, and if there is any information, I almost always look for a source. When it comes to a dispute, I am also looking for the opponent's opinion, I do not want to automatically accept the report as true. Unfortunately, most of the hockey environment is more negative than positive. And I also like to read older articles and compare them with the present.

Because we are both Czechs, you can see for yourself what is happening here. By that I don't just mean sports or hockey in particular. The damage caused by communism in the mentality of the people will not change in a while, it is a very long process with an uncertain outcome. This creates a deadly cocktail of people who, by thinking, belong to communism, and on the other hand, there are people who think they can do anything and not bear the consequences of their actions. Yes, now I write exactly about hockey. By eliminating Krale the problems do not end by far, it is important to remember. The main thing in the summer will be for the clubs not to believe everything the presidential candidates will tell them. Because you can promise anything, people just want to hear something positive ... but the question is whether there will be elections at all in the summer, people around the King do not want elections at any cost.

From what I've written here and to succeed, the work is 8-10 years. But it means everyday work, not just talking about TV and newspaper issues. Quite a few people who move in a hockey environment know where the biggest problems lie, but forcing specific people to take responsibility will be very difficult. In this, the people of the north have a much better mentality, unmarked by communism. There is also a huge deficit in this, which will not occur to anyone who does not think about it in context. Czechs can name all the problems with a glass of beer, but they don't want to do anything about it anymore. That's the problem.
 

Elias40

Registered User
Jan 3, 2020
603
323
Well if you could produce at a better rate in Extraliga as a U22 you are NHL-level talent that somehow got missed. Every mid-tier country - Switzerland, Germany - is in the same situation. In the DEL there are 4 U22 players with over 10 points currently.

I'm really not sure what that's supposed to tell other than that Czech are not on par with Finland/Russia/Sweden. Which everyone knew.

No, it shows that Czech clubs have a stupid attitude and fear of giving young players a full chance. Countries with excellent junior competitions have a much better chance of putting youngsters earlier in the seniors' match. The second problem is that other leagues do not have a severance system like the Czechs, it is discrimination against domestic players when they do not have to pay anything for a foreigner except their salary. There are exceptions, only a minimum of clubs in the extraliga will keep their young players and give them a chance, but it's not a trend.
 
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Swipes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
1,708
481
Šéf hokejového svazu o spolupráci s StB: Necítím se jako morálně špatný člověk | Ptám se já | Stream

Opinions? This interview accurately shows the alibi thinking of this man, he only brought money and saved hockey. The end of the conversation is an absolute farce, I don't know what more I should write about. One simply cannot be so detached from reality.

The reporter makes a lot of mistakes, she's not very good to be honest, but does ask some decent questions.

I didn't learn anything new from this interview.

It's pretty much the same tired arguments that he's always used. The older system benefitted us more, there are too few children around to produce enough good players, our players run off abroad and don't play here and thus get worse, children aren't motivated enough, we don't train enough, we have done everything we can it's up to the clubs now they are to blame, coaches aren't doing what we tell them and so on and so on....

Overall, he doesn't want to take responsibility for anything (he just blames everyone else-"it's not my fault I don't coach the players") and even has the cheek to claim he "saved Czech hockey". Financially perhaps yes but not in any metric that matters to us (e.g. medals, producing quality players etc).

I mean just look at the progress we have made in floorball. I know it's cheaper than hockey but if it's possible there it's possible in hockey.
 
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Elias40

Registered User
Jan 3, 2020
603
323
The reporter makes a lot of mistakes, she's not very good to be honest, but does ask some decent questions.

I didn't learn anything new from this interview.

It's pretty much the same tired arguments that he's always used. The older system benefitted us more, there are too few children around to produce enough good players, our players run off abroad and don't play here and thus get worse, children aren't motivated enough, we don't train enough, we have done everything we can it's up to the clubs now they are to blame, coaches aren't doing what we tell them and so on and so on....

Overall, he doesn't want to take responsibility for anything (he just blames everyone else-"it's not my fault I don't coach the players") and even has the cheek to claim he "saved Czech hockey". Financially perhaps yes but not in any metric that matters to us (e.g. medals, producing quality players etc).

I mean just look at the progress we have made in floorball. I know it's cheaper than hockey but if it's possible there it's possible in hockey.

I'll tell you quite honestly what I expected from that interview. He knows it's over and he's leaving the federation. So I expected him to behave like a guy at least once and admit that he did his best financially, but in the sports part he just screwed up. That would be enough for me to admit a mistake and say I'm leaving. Whether Pesan or Nedvěd think the same, it's even worse than I dared think. And it will be a lot of fun when a person like Hnilička takes over in two years, who has so far played the role of a useful idiot in the NSA. Is there anyone who doesn't start acting like Pesan or Kral after joining the federation? If not, and there will be a generation of other people who will claim that the mistake is on the side of the clubs, the medal wait may be 15 years. And during that time, the base will fall, because there is no success, and if floorball finally wins the gold medal, it will take the children away from hockey.
 
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Swipes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
1,708
481
I'll tell you quite honestly what I expected from that interview. He knows it's over and he's leaving the federation. So I expected him to behave like a guy at least once and admit that he did his best financially, but in the sports part he just screwed up. That would be enough for me to admit a mistake and say I'm leaving. Whether Pesan or Nedvěd think the same, it's even worse than I dared think. And it will be a lot of fun when a person like Hnilička takes over in two years, who has so far played the role of a useful idiot in the NSA. Is there anyone who doesn't start acting like Pesan or Kral after joining the federation? If not, and there will be a generation of other people who will claim that the mistake is on the side of the clubs, the medal wait may be 15 years. And during that time, the base will fall, because there is no success, and if floorball finally wins the gold medal, it will take the children away from hockey.

Yeah, exactly.

We wil have to wait and see who is elected and how they behave. I think floorball already is taking children from hockey (it's "clean"-for now anyway) but with a gold medal (maybe this year?) it will be worse that's true.
 

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