CXLVIII - NHL BOG approves sale and relocation of Coyotes to Ryan Smith, league announces establishment of franchise in Utah

[aqib]

Dude just give it a rest, he's a billionaire that wanted a new toy. It's clear he needed to do a better job of hiring the right people in those positions.

Realistically, anyone could have bought the Coyotes and just cut checks(which is what AM was basically doing), as long as you had the right people in place. He's now sitting at the big boy table with all the other owners, the "elite" as they might call themselves. There are other people that wish they were there, aspire to be there, etc.

Why should I give it a rest when I was the one who was right. Even the PHNX crew finally started admitting that his lack of presence is part of the problem.

When the team needed to rebuild its reputation and build a POLITICAL partnership, just cutting checks and hiding in the witness protection program wasn't going to do it. Sitting in the audience at the Tempe debate when people are hurling accusations at you and letting a dude who sounds like a mafia hitman do your talking for you isn't going to build trust.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Hypothetically speaking, if Meruelo doesn't win the land auction, what happens then? Would there be a stipulation that the trademarks and IP would simply transfer back to the NHL?

I know Meruelo says he's committed, but there seems to be intense skepticism around the league that he can actually get it done.

Skepticism doesn't even begin to describe it.

If the league had even the slightest hint he would be successful then the team would still be in Arizona.

 

[aqib]

Those are more fundamental questions than what I was addressing in my post and honestly, they’ve been more than hashed to death. But specifically on #2… there’s a pretty high profile example of someone who operates or at least operated exactly the same way (not paying small vendor bills while getting financing for big real estate projects). Let’s just steer away from national politics though. Suffice it to say that Meruelo would not be the first to get major financing in his circumstances.

I am not trying to bring national politics into this, however the opposition campaign in Tempe did bring up gentrification and lack of affordable housing in the project. You can't ignore the lack of affordable housing in the residential component of the project as part of the reasoning for the opposition.

 

[Tawnos]

I am not trying to bring national politics into this, however the opposition campaign in Tempe did bring up gentrification and lack of affordable housing in the project. You can't ignore the lack of affordable housing in the residential component of the project as part of the reasoning for the opposition.

I don’t buy it for a second. Yes, they might have made it a part of their reasoning, but the sell job was on the “public” funding.

 

[aqib]

I don’t buy it for a second. Yes, they might have made it a part of their reasoning, but the sell job was on the “public” funding.

Its easy to drum up opposition to something that looks like a playground for rich people and no benefits to middle-class people (other than construction jobs).

 

[rojac]

Every time my aunt's dog died she would get a new puppy (same breed) and give it the same name. She's on her 4th Bella.

In the early 1930s, my grandparents gave birth to a son, who they named David James (first and middle names). The boy only lived at couple of days.Then, in 1935, they gave birth to my father, who they then named David James. I never heard about it until after my dad's deat, but according to my mom, Dad always founnd that a bit weird.

 

[jigglysquishy]

In the early 1930s, my grandparents gave birth to a son, who they named David James (first and middle names). The boy only lived at couple of days.Then, in 1935, they gave birth to my father, who they then named David James. I never heard about it until after my dad's deat, but according to my mom, Dad always founnd that a bit weird.

If you ever get into genealogy, it is very very common.

I would venture 10-20% of all people born in 1900-1920 were named after a dead sibling.

 

[Edenjung]

The key...is the passing of HB2274...by the Arizona State Senate...who has not even taken up the bill...

You sure about that?

HB2274 - 562R - I Ver

What do firefighters with PTSD have to do with Muerelo and his pipe dream?

 

[rsteen]

If you ever get into genealogy, it is very very common.

I would venture 10-20% of all people born in 1900-1920 were named after a dead sibling.

I know someone born in the 1980s who has the same first name as his stillborn brother, different middle names. So if the dead baby was referred to, he was "Robert John" or whatever, and just "Robert" was the living son.

 

[TheLegend]

The league owned the team for 3 years before they basically bankrolled the purchase by the IceArizona clowns.

As far as a second GTA team goes, there have been lots of inquiries by deep-pocketed owners over the years. Everyone has been told no. Daly and Bettman have repeatedly thrown cold water on the idea over the years. Remington Group was planning the Markham Arena and had partnered with Ryan Reynolds to bid on the Senators, so they would be interested but the league has sent a clear message that isn't happening. If the NHL had told Ryan Smith when they first met "we're not interested in Utah" he wouldn't have been doing all the work he's been doing in the last 2 years.

(I’m in full sarcasm mode today)

Yeesh…. how many holes do I need to fill here?

Now what was it….. oh….. Smith was right up front declaring he wanted an EXPANSION team….. but could take in another one right away if necessary.

During those three plus years the league had multiple groups to vet before they eventually handed it over to IceArizona. Two of those prospective buying had MOUs in hand from Glendale btw.

All the them looking to remain in Arizona.

Moving any team is the league’s last option (Bettman has said this over and over)

I will add another angle to this you probably wouldn’t think of.

If not for the Coyotes 14 game losing streak this year they might have reached the playoffs. IIRC they were sitting in the WC1 slot at that time when that streak began.

And if not this season… they were trending to make it within the next 2-3 years given the core and prospect depth Bill Armstrong put together.

The notion of multiple games getting televised in a 5000 seat arena probably set a few alarms amongst the owners and the PA. Imagine a Stanley Cup final if it got that far. (In spite of Bill Daly saying “sure!”) Hence all the leaked rumors that began around the all star break.

 

[Headshot77]

What’s rediculous about it?

Bettman has said dozens of times when asked about Arizona that they are there because someone was willing to step up to keep the team there.

Coyotes would have gone in 2019 had Alex Meruelo not come in and dumped tens of millions of his own money trying to make it work.

You think Salt Lake City would have a team now had Ryan Smith not stepped up to the plate with $1.2 billion. Then there are two groups right now wanting a team back in Atlanta and one is close to getting it done.

So where is Quebec City?? Where are the the groups wanting a second GTA team??

Sending a provential finance minister off to Net York for meet and greets with Gary Bettman doesn’t get you an NHL franchise.

Money talks.

There is a popular, albeit conspiratorial theory on these boards that Alex Meurelo was never really an official owner of the Coyotes. That he was basically a shell owner that was there to keep the team in Phoenix, and that the team was generally under NHL control. I don't believe this idea personally but it would explain how Bettman was basically able to force AM to sell his franchise to Smith in record time. Nothing really explains how or why AM went from "I don't want to sell" as of March 6th to the team being gone less than six weeks later. It's obvious that Bettman had *something* over him and generally leagues aren't able to force owners out like Bettman managed to do here. Was it really just the allure of $1 billion dollars and being relieved of a money-losing asset? It could be. But this situation is so unprecedented in professional sports that it still smells fishy to me.

 

[TheLegend]

You sure about that?

HB2274 - 562R - I Ver

What do firefighters with PTSD have to do with Muerelo and his pipe dream?

AIUI…. The theme park district law already exists. They’re currently trying to amend it to take city and county governments out of the process.

 

[TheLegend]

Why should I give it a rest when I was the one who was right. Even the PHNX crew finally started admitting that his lack of presence is part of the problem.

When the team needed to rebuild its reputation and build a POLITICAL partnership, just cutting checks and hiding in the witness protection program wasn't going to do it. Sitting in the audience at the Tempe debate when people are hurling accusations at you and letting a dude who sounds like a mafia hitman do your talking for you isn't going to build trust.

You aren’t “right.” None of us are completely right.

You only want to be right.

 

[TheLegend]

There is a popular, albeit conspiratorial theory on these boards that Alex Meurelo was never really an official owner of the Coyotes. That he was basically a shell owner that was there to keep the team in Phoenix, and that the team was generally under NHL control. I don't believe this idea personally but it would explain how Bettman was basically able to force AM to sell his franchise to Smith in record time. Nothing really explains how or why AM went from "I don't want to sell" as of March 6th to the team being gone less than six weeks later. It's obvious that Bettman had *something* over him and generally leagues aren't able to force owners out like Bettman managed to do here. Was it really just the allure of $1 billion dollars and being relieved of a money-losing asset? It could be. But this situation is so unprecedented in professional sports that it still smells fishy to me.

Certainly. Lots of ways you can look at this.

There’s another “conspiracy” I alluded to above that having playoff games at Mullett was going to kill the revenue side of things and facing the possibility of that over the next 3-5 years had everyone trying to figure out how to avoid it.

Had the Coyotes not been in that position there was the possibility we wouldn’t have seen this happen.

 

[Edenjung]

AIUI…. The theme park district law already exists. They’re currently trying to amend it to take city and county governments out of the process.

So they stick that law to the firefighter law?
Ok thats weird.

 

[aqib]

You aren’t “right.” None of us are completely right.

You only want to be right.

Yeah so where was I wrong saying that Muruelo staying behind the scenes was a stupid strategy when trying to build support for his project and a connection with the fan base. You and awaffle were saying I was being ridiculous and now it's all blown up and even PHNX who were the biggest shills for the team and him are saying if was a problem.

 

[TheLegend]

Yeah so where was I wrong saying that Muruelo staying behind the scenes was a stupid strategy when trying to build support for his project and a connection with the fan base. You and awaffle were saying I was being ridiculous and now it's all blown up and even PHNX who were the biggest shills for the team and him are saying if was a problem.

Nobody said you were ridiculous. I myself am saying you’re using a rather narrow POV in order to engage in some sort of victory dance here.

it’s affectionately known as sealioning. The fact you used the term “shills” to describe the PHNX group only confirms it.

 

[aqib]

(I’m in full sarcasm mode today)

Yeesh…. how many holes do I need to fill here?

Now what was it….. oh….. Smith was right up front declaring he wanted an EXPANSION team….. but could take in another one right away if necessary.

During those three plus years the league had multiple groups to vet before they eventually handed it over to IceArizona. Two of those prospective buying had MOUs in hand from Glendale btw.

All the them looking to remain in Arizona.

Moving any team is the league’s last option (Bettman has said this over and over)

I will add another angle to this you probably wouldn’t think of.

If not for the Coyotes 14 game losing streak this year they might have reached the playoffs. IIRC they were sitting in the WC1 slot at that time when that streak began.

And if not this season… they were trending to make it within the next 2-3 years given the core and prospect depth Bill Armstrong put together.

The notion of multiple games getting televised in a 5000 seat arena probably set a few alarms amongst the owners and the PA. Imagine a Stanley Cup final if it got that far. (In spite of Bill Daly saying “sure!”) Hence all the leaked rumors that began around the all star break.

Yes 3 plus years of vetting groups that didn't have money. You had Hulsizer who wanted to finance the deal by selling parking rights to the city who already owned them and Jamison who couldn't close because he didn't have money and then IceArizona who the league had to finance. Look at the timeline for the Senators sale. They put the team up for sale and several ownership groups stepped up and were vetted and the team sold. It didn't take 3 years. That's what happens when you have legit owners who want to own the team.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes 3 plus years of vetting groups that didn't have money. You had Hulsizer who wanted to finance the deal by selling parking rights to the city who already owned them and Jamison who couldn't close because he didn't have money and then IceArizona who the league had to finance. Look at the timeline for the Senators sale. They put the team up for sale and several ownership groups stepped up and were vetted and the team sold. It didn't take 3 years. That's what happens when you have legit owners who want to own the team.

Comparing Apple and rutabagas now.

Sens have an arena as part of the deal and their new owner has years in the league as a minority partner.

Jamison had the group, had the lease in hand, but did not have a single large enough stakeholder.

 

[Llama19]

You sure about that?

HB2274 - 562R - I Ver

What do firefighters with PTSD have to do with Muerelo and his pipe dream?

That was the original bill...

They used the infamous 'strike-all/strike everything' workaround...
as it is easier to circumvent...the process of introducing a new one...

By the way...Sen Mendez is in opposition to this bill...

 

[Edenjung]

That was the original bill...

They used the infamous 'strike-all/strike everything' workaround...
as it is easier to circumvent...the process of introducing a new one...

By the way...Sen Mendez is in opposition to this bill...

Does he have a reason for that?
And why for gods sake is that possible? I have never seen something like that ever in my life.

They put the team up for sale and several ownership groups stepped up and were vetted and the team sold. It didn't take 3 years. That's what happens when you have legit owners who want to own the team.

Hmmm, can somebody give Ryan Reynolds a call? I have a proposition for him....

 

[aqib]

Comparing Apple and rutabagas now.

Sens have an arena as part of the deal and their new owner has years in the league as a minority partner.

Jamison had the group, had the lease in hand, but did not have a single large enough stakeholder.

They have an old arena that needs to be replaced. They had several groups bidding. It didn't take 3 years. It never takes that long in any sport when you have legit buyers.

Jamison never got the money. I remember the thread on the deadline day people were trying to see if he would meet the Fed wire deadline. He never raised the money.

 

[TheLegend]

They have an old arena that needs to be replaced. They had several groups bidding. It didn't take 3 years. It never takes that long in any sport when you have legit buyers.

Jamison never got the money. I remember the thread on the deadline day people were trying to see if he would meet the Fed wire deadline. He never raised the money.

They have an arena…. Period.

The official reason for rejecting Jamison’s was he did not have a stakeholder with a large enough share.

IceArizona was part of that group. They saw what the NHL wanted and went out and found George Gosbee to be the major stakeholder plus one other. This came from Daryl Jones himself.

 

[Spydey629]

Aren't there only four (Avalanche, Lightning, Wild, and Kraken)?

Dammit. I said five to about half a bunch of friends and no one corrected me...

You get the point!

 

[Dead Coyote]

You can "read" this press conference depending on who you're inclined to "blame" on the relocation.


If you're a "everything's the commissioner's fault" kinda person, Bettman comes across (like @bleedblue94 says) as testy and at times arrogant, often interrupting reporters and Alex too (and answering questions not even directed to him). You're going to walk away with your "Bettman is a jerk" opinion re-confirmed.


If you're a "everything's the owner's fault" kinda person, Meruelo comes across as a man WAY over his head, unable to articulate well and not someone you'd trust to sell popsicles in a desert or heaters in Alaska. You're going to walk away with your "Meruelo is incompetent" feelings confirmed.

Why not both?

I'm curious how you would have preferred she cover these types of stories. In most cases, this type of thing is necessarily based around anonymous sources, because no one would want to go on record.

I don't think that makes it "gossip", and I would be shocked if she didn't have multiple sources confirming everything she's written about -- especially given her reputation for covering extremely sensitive stories, as well as the type of shit she *always* takes from people in the comments sections (not saying you're one of them), who often seem to have, um... 'other' reasons why they hate her.

I'm sure her stories are lawyered like crazy before they're published, too.

The anonymous sources thing isn't amazing but you're right, it's not a thing that will ever change probably.

I appreciate that Strang has taken a lot of shit for things that probably will end up true- or are at least looking a lot more likely.

There's 2 problems I have with her. One is that she has gotten things wrong, and that isn't necessarily something that's been acknowledged. It makes it harder to believe what she's saying when we have evidence that it's wrong. Not always about the Coyotes either.

The other is that the way she writes her articles, and the way she paints pictures, to me looks really biased- I've posted this on the Coyotes board before but there's no reason for her opening paragraph to be about XG having a sparsely furnished 2.5m mansion and inviting AM Sr. and Jr. and there's no reason to make a whole bunch of accusations that can't be verified, when it isn't even a part of the article, just a throwaway. The fact she has always, continuously, shit on the Coyotes for her entire time, and that she has thrown mud at pretty much everyone in the organization brass, even people who are otherwise squeaky clean, and the way she paints those pictures, I can accept what she says as truth, but I can't say that she doesn't deserve some of that criticism or that she's a good, unbiased investigative journalist.

I am, and I'd still rate him ahead of owners like Jerry Moyes and the IceArizona clowns.

Do you still think he's the best owner this team has had?