CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[TheLegend]

Guys no matter how pro arena you are, you have to admit there are going to be costs to having the development there that don't exist currently. You're going to have more police every time there is an event. You're going to have more kids in the city schools since there is a residential component, etc. So unless the development company is paying for that then it is a burden on the other tax payers.

As far as what another developer would demand you can't say since the RFP was written in such a manner that only the Coyotes could respond to it.

Since nobody bothers to read the damn documents..... this is part of the summary that itemizes some of the things Meruelo will cover. (It was updated on 4/6/23)

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/99461/638164567333570000

GPLET and additional benefits to the community

 The agreement follows all Arizona laws regarding the allowed use of Government Property Lease Excise Tax (GPLET).
 A detailed, third-party economic impact analysis estimates more than $200 million in public benefits to the City of Tempe from the project, exclusive of the additional developer contributions to the city described below.
 The arena and music venue will have a 30-year GPLET abatement period. Other project components will have an eight-year GPLET abatement period.
 The arena and music venue will have a 30-year GPLET abatement period. The value of Tempe’s portion of the 30-year GPLET abatement is $87.3 million.
 Other project components will have an eight-year GPLET abatement period. The value of Tempe’s portion of the eight-year GPLET abatement is $11.8 million.
 “Tempe” will be part of the name of the entertainment district.
 At no cost, the City of Tempe will be able to use the music venue at least five days per year, the arena at least three days per year, an outdoor covered venue at least 10 days per year and the outdoor event plaza for at least five days per year. An arena suite will be available to the city for economic development/marketing purposes.
 A 1,500-square-foot emergency response and public safety facility will be constructed on site.
 Tempe will get regular and emergency use of digital signs on the property.
 The Tempe Union High School District Foundation and the Tempe Impact Education Foundation will each get $50,000 from the developer to assist in their missions.
 Developer will pay Valley Metro $414,000 per year to defray the costs of additional ride-sharing and shuttle services during the life of the 30-year arena GPLET.
 Tempe will get free use of 3,000 square feet of Class A office space during the life of the 30-year arena GPLET.
 Instead of the $2.5 million in required art in this private development, the developer will spend at least $7 million on public art within the project.
 Developer will contribute $20,000 to relocate historic POW barracks buildings that had been placed at the site.
 Developer will give Tempe $50,000 a year for managing transit/transportation impacts up to $1.5 million.
 Developer to give Tempe $1.1 million a year for public safety expenses during the life of the 30-year arena GPLET.
 Developer to pay $2 million to Tempe for affordable/workforce housing construction.
 Developer to pay Tempe $1.5 million for general city enhancements or social services at the city’s discretion.
 Developer will pay the city $200,000 per year during the life of the 30-year GPLET to support the city’s traffic control improvements at the Priest and 202/143 entr

Regarding traffic...

Traffic impacts​

Developer hired a traffic engineer to conduct a traffic impact analysis that has been submitted to the city. This will guide design and site planning related to traffic mitigation.

Developer will give Tempe $50,000 a year for managing transit/transportation impacts up to $1.5 million.

Developer will pay Valley Metro $414,000 per year to defray the costs of additional ridesharing and shuttle services during the life of the 30-year arena GPLET.

Developer will pay the city $200,000 per year during the life of the 30-year GPLET to support the city's traffic control improvements at the Priest and 202/143 entrance to reduce "cut-through" traffic on the airport grounds.

The RFP issue has been addressed MULTIPLE times..... but to refresh a few memories.....

It was created the way it was because Meruelo came to the city with a plan for the site, and the RFP is a required process since the city owned it. Any other project would have gone through the same process no matter what was proposed.

Had the city rejected the proposal another developer decided they could make a proposal for the site..... the RFP would still be issued and would be catered to THAT proposal.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Well… unless you toss in the tax liability of putting out the occasional land fill fire.

But I suppose it's good training for the first responders. If the TFD can put out a tire fire they can certainly take care of you when you fall asleep smoking in bed.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

What happens if a plane crashes? Really? I'm sure your eye-roll at this is as big as mine.

Yes, plane crashes are incredibly bad and we don't want any of those.

But it's PHOENIX where 329 days of the year are sunny and without precipitation. Inclement weather in Phoenix lasts like 40 minutes, about a dozen times a year. There's a reason that there's just a ton of UFO sightings in Arizona: Because you can almost always clearly see everything in the sky.

This is why in the entire list of plane crashes in the United States, THREE have happened in the state of Arizona - TWO were from 1956 to 1986 when pilots were too busy looking at the Grand Canyon to notice there was someone in their blind spot and they collided, and one was a Boeing construction flaw that reared it's ugly head over Yuma, which could/would have happened anywhere.

Phoenix is literally tied for the title of "Safest airport in the world."

Youre not accounting for mechanical failures and also general aviation (which there have been recent crashes due to CFIT.

A plane losing both engines or having a catastrophic mechanical immediately after take off or on approach into sky harbor with the Tempe site being so closed to the airport boundaries could be catastrophic

 

[TheLegend]

Youre not accounting for mechanical failures and also general aviation (which there have been recent crashes due to CFIT.

A plane losing both engines or having a catastrophic mechanical immediately after take off or on approach into sky harbor with the Tempe site being so closed to the airport boundaries could be catastrophic

Very little general aviation goes in and out of Sky Harbor. It’s all executive, charters and freight.

FAA has established corridors taking into account single engine failure take offs and none of the building at TED come near them.

Tempe Town Lake will not be extended either. Which would not increase the possibilities of bird strike.

Even without TED being there. There’s plenty of large, highly occupied buildings on both sides of Sky Harbor an aircraft could end up piling into.

But no…. the number one complaint being used by Phoenix as reason for not building TED is all the potential noise complaints coming from the housing.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Very little general aviation goes in and out of Sky Harbor. It’s all executive, charters and freight.

FAA has established corridors taking into account single engine failure take offs and none of the building at TED come near them.

Tempe Town Lake will not be extended either. Which would not increase the possibilities of bird strike.

Even without TED being there. There’s plenty of large, highly occupied buildings on both sides of Sky Harbor an aircraft could end up piling into.

But no…. the number one complaint being used by Phoenix as reason for not building TED is all the potential noise complaints coming from the housing.

Not true, I've flown private into Sky Harbor multiple times and there are multiple FBOs that service hundreds of private aircraft per day. All it takes is a King Air or PC-12 losing an engine and not having any place to land....

 

[Fatass]

Can we just get this vote done and approve the area? This is crazy not knowing if the club is going to be in the city long term.

 

[TheLegend]

Not true, I've flown private into Sky Harbor multiple times and there are multiple FBOs that service hundreds of private aircraft per day. All it takes is a King Air or PC-12 losing an engine and not having any place to land....

And it wouldn’t matter if TED was there or not.

One of the things Phoenix wants Tempe to give in on is a 390 foot runway extension. And for the moment I’m going to presume it’s the south runways because they’re looking to add 12 additional gates to Terminal 4 and push more larger aircraft (B757-767, A340) out the south side.

It’s the south runways that started the whole fight between the cities in the 90’s. The current IGA forces aircraft exiting the south runways east over Tempe require a hard turn to get over the Salt River corridor. Inbound aircraft required a “slide over” maneuver that has been abandoned since it was deemed “too hazardous” under low/limited ceiling and other inclement weather conditions.

Hell I’m 15 miles due west of Sky Harbor and they consistently fly in and out over my house (sometimes under the corridor if the ceiling is low). Throw in the traffic I get from the Goodyear and Glendale airports and the occasional rogue out of Luke AFB, I’ve got the same odds as anybody else have something end up dropping on my roof.

 

[TheLegend]

Can we just get this vote done and approve the area? This is crazy not knowing if the club is going to be in the city long term.

They didn’t have much choice. Elections are controlled by the county and spring and fall are the only two windows. Had the Coyotes not pushed for this to happen in Mat it would have been August.

 

[mouser]

And it wouldn’t matter if TED was there or not.

One of the things Phoenix wants Tempe to give in on is a 390 foot runway extension. And for the moment I’m going to presume it’s the south runways because they’re looking to add 12 additional gates to Terminal 4 and push more larger aircraft (B757-767, A340) out the south side.

It’s the south runways that started the whole fight between the cities in the 90’s. The current IGA forces aircraft exiting the south runways east over Tempe require a hard turn to get over the Salt River corridor. Inbound aircraft required a “slide over” maneuver that has been abandoned since it was deemed “too hazardous” under low/limited ceiling and other inclement weather conditions.

Hell I’m 15 miles due west of Sky Harbor and they consistently fly in and out over my house (sometimes under the corridor if the ceiling is low). Throw in the traffic I get from the Goodyear and Glendale airports and the occasional rogue out of Luke AFB, I’ve got the same odds as anybody else have something end up dropping on my roof.

It's the main southern runway (not the shorter 2nd south runway).

https://tempe.hylandcloud.com/Agendaonline/Documents/ViewDocument/Work_Study_Session_1422_Agenda_Packet_2_9_2023_4_00_00_PM.pdf?meetingId=1422&documentType=AgendaPacket&itemId=0&publishId=0&isSection=false

 

[Yukon Joe]

Can we just get this vote done and approve the area? This is crazy not knowing if the club is going to be in the city long term.

The Coyotes long-term future has been up in the air since at least 2009, when the team went into bankruptcy and Balsillie attempted to buy it to move to Hamilton.

YOu just kind of get used to the uncertainty.

 

[aqib]

The RFP issue has been addressed MULTIPLE times..... but to refresh a few memories.....

It was created the way it was because Meruelo came to the city with a plan for the site, and the RFP is a required process since the city owned it. Any other project would have gone through the same process no matter what was proposed.

Had the city rejected the proposal another developer decided they could make a proposal for the site..... the RFP would still be issued and would be catered to THAT proposal.

You know it is possible for the city to just issue a more open-ended RFP and let different developers so that they (and the community) can judge based on a full set of options rather than making a deal in secret and then drafting an RFP with the outcome already decided.

 

[TheLegend]

You know it is possible for the city to just issue a more open-ended RFP and let different developers so that they (and the community) can judge based on a full set of options rather than making a deal in secret and then drafting an RFP with the outcome already decided.

Anything is possible.

But then you know in reality it doesn’t happen that way.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Anything is possible.

But then you know in reality it doesn’t happen that way.

Everyone should go sit in on their city/town council meetings for a half-year. You'll be better for it.

This deal is not the "Buy back parking rights we already own" we saw previously in this saga. This appears to be a completely reasonable development deal similar to ones cut in municipalities all across North America.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You know it is possible for the city to just issue a more open-ended RFP and let different developers so that they (and the community) can judge based on a full set of options rather than making a deal in secret and then drafting an RFP with the outcome already decided.

Of course that is possible. But there is also maybe a reason (or reasons) why they did not proceed in that fashion.

If Tempe just said "Hey we have this piece of land - we want proposals on what to do with it" you risk getting dozens of wildly different proposals. Many will probably not meet the stated requirements, but they will become political issues anyways.

 

[aqib]

Anything is possible.

But then you know in reality it doesn’t happen that way.

I mean I've been on both sides of municipal RFPs having responded to them and issued them. I also pitched (or attempted to pitch) municipal governments via cold calls. You could easily set up an RFP where you say we've got this plot of land we would like to see development that does X out of the Y following things. So either creates a certain number of jobs, or amount of tax revenue, or provides certain other outcomes. Honestly I've never seen an RFP that was written so that literally only one person/company could respond to it.

 

[Tawnos]

I mean I've been on both sides of municipal RFPs having responded to them and issued them. I also pitched (or attempted to pitch) municipal governments via cold calls. You could easily set up an RFP where you say we've got this plot of land we would like to see development that does X out of the Y following things. So either creates a certain number of jobs, or amount of tax revenue, or provides certain other outcomes. Honestly I've never seen an RFP that was written so that literally only one person/company could respond to it.

On a more fundamental/technical level, it's not really all that different than the Key Arena RFP was. Written specific to what the city wants done with the property based on the interest they already knew was there. On that technical level, more than Meruelo and the Coyotes could have responded. Wasn't there a rumor ASU was going to put together a proposal of their own or am I misremembering that?

On the real world level, in Seattle that meant two bidders and in Phoenix it only meant one. But in terms of approach, I see it as really being the same process.

 

[TheLegend]

I mean I've been on both sides of municipal RFPs having responded to them and issued them. I also pitched (or attempted to pitch) municipal governments via cold calls. You could easily set up an RFP where you say we've got this plot of land we would like to see development that does X out of the Y following things. So either creates a certain number of jobs, or amount of tax revenue, or provides certain other outcomes. Honestly I've never seen an RFP that was written so that literally only one person/company could respond to it.

Actually... the Suns or DBacks could have responded. Particularly the DBacks because they've been angling for a new stadium. But then they also need someone to pay for everything.

It's easy to do anything if you want it. This is a proverbial dead horse issue.

 

[TheLegend]

Everyone should go sit in on their city/town council meetings for a half-year. You'll be better for it.

The one in Tempe back on June 2nd went 8 hours and was something else.

Having watched both Glendale and Tempe in action.... Tempe is light years ahead.

This deal is not the "Buy back parking rights we already own" we saw previously in this saga. This appears to be a completely reasonable development deal similar to ones cut in municipalities all across North America.

To think I almost bought into that idea.....

 

[Llama19]

Debate over Arizona Coyotes project in Tempe set for April 18, to be hosted by The Republic

To quote:

"The studio debate will run from 6 to 7 p.m. It will be broadcast live on Tempe Channel 11 and livestreamed on Tempe's website. The debate will be available for viewing later on azcentral.com."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/12/coyotes-project-in-tempe-focus-of-april-18-debate-hosted-by-republic/70108382007/

 

[aqib]

On a more fundamental/technical level, it's not really all that different than the Key Arena RFP was. Written specific to what the city wants done with the property based on the interest they already knew was there. On that technical level, more than Meruelo and the Coyotes could have responded. Wasn't there a rumor ASU was going to put together a proposal of their own or am I misremembering that?

On the real world level, in Seattle that meant two bidders and in Phoenix it only meant one. But in terms of approach, I see it as really being the same process.

Completely different. Key Arena was an existing arena that was hosting events but wasn't up to modern standards so it was "make this modern" that's different from an empty piece of land. For the record I also thought that was stupid, they did it in a way that blocked Hansen's Sodo proposal which I thought was better (granted I am not in Seattle so my view is from afar).

 

[aqib]

Actually... the Suns or DBacks could have responded. Particularly the DBacks because they've been angling for a new stadium. But then they also need someone to pay for everything.

It's easy to do anything if you want it. This is a proverbial dead horse issue.

That's a red herring. The Suns already did their renovation. As far as the Dbacks go I don't know if they could have put a deal together that fast given the short timeline. The fact of the matter is they could have had an RFP that allowed for a wider range of proposals but they structured it so that only the Coyotes could "win"

 

[Tawnos]

Completely different. Key Arena was an existing arena that was hosting events but wasn't up to modern standards so it was "make this modern" that's different from an empty piece of land. For the record I also thought that was stupid, they did it in a way that blocked Hansen's Sodo proposal which I thought was better (granted I am not in Seattle so my view is from afar).

I don't think it's completely different at all. They could have opened up an RFP with alternative ideas for the land the arena sits on, but they didn't. The city wanted the land used for one thing and one thing only.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Can't they just move the arena somewhere else in Tempe? I mean do we have to blow the project up over this?

 

[Yukon Joe]

I mean I've been on both sides of municipal RFPs having responded to them and issued them. I also pitched (or attempted to pitch) municipal governments via cold calls. You could easily set up an RFP where you say we've got this plot of land we would like to see development that does X out of the Y following things. So either creates a certain number of jobs, or amount of tax revenue, or provides certain other outcomes. Honestly I've never seen an RFP that was written so that literally only one person/company could respond to it.

Oh come on. I've been in government and it's not uncommon to see things like job postings that are so specific that only one person would possibly meet the qualifications.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Can't they just move the arena somewhere else in Tempe? I mean do we have to blow the project up over this?

1. Tempe is pretty well developed. I think it's been reported this is the largest piece of undeveloped land in Tempe.

2. Remember this isn't just vacant land - this is an old landfill that requires reclamation. That's Tempe's motivation here - for someone else to pay for the cost of reclamation.

3. Meruelo/the Coyotes motivation is for "someone else" to pay for the new arena.

So the deal here is as follows: Tempe gives a massive tax break in exchange for someone else paying to reclaim this site. Meruelo gets almost free development rights for condos, commercial property etc. which should be hugely profitable, but in exchange he has to A: reclaim the land and B: build an arena.

It would be hard to find another piece of land that has this combination of factors.