CXLII - Coyotes agree to play at ASU with $20m annex for next three years.

[LPHabsFan]

So what, is any team that doesn't sell out every night supposed to be sold and or moved? What about other leagues the the MLB, who have plenty of teams that don't draw big crowds each night.

If only attendance was the only issue facing this "organization"....

 

[TheLegend]

If only attendance was the only issue facing this "organization"....

Organization(S)...... there's been four (including the league).

Attendance always seems to be the fall back subject though when nobody has an original thought.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Organization(S)...... there's been four (including the league).

Attendance always seems to be the fall back subject though when nobody has an original thought.

I mean if you're going to go down the road I think you're talking about you could really only argue that there has only been two; Arizona Coyotes and Phoenix Coyotes.

I was referring to my feeling that they're not a real "organization", or franchise as a possible substitute, given how much of a disaster they've been on and off the ice over the past too many years to count.

What you're referring to, I think, is their various ownership groups, which is not what I was commenting on. I would also argue that any "ownership" group that has been in "control" of the team post bankruptcy shouldn't qualify, hence the quotation marks, given my own personal and completely factless belief that they have never actually paid a dime of their own money to purchase the team because who in their right mind would buy a money bottomless pit without assurances that they wouldn't lose money and would only pay when the team was financially stable and that in fact it's been the NHL all along through whatever LOC's they have to cover the losses.

Sorry for that last, long run on sentence.

 

[Stumbledore]

to the point where I need to be dismissive.

You don't need to be dismissive.

You just resort to being dismissive when you can't address contrary points.

 

[Stumbledore]

So what, is any team that doesn't sell out every night supposed to be sold and or moved? What about other leagues the the MLB, who have plenty of teams that don't draw big crowds each night.

Wow, massive overreaction followed by a dose of "Whatabout-ism".

The Legend said that the Coyotes were increasing their attendance. I posted figures which proved that the increase was miniscule.

And you reply with does every team that doesn't sell out every night should be sold or moved? Wow. I mean, just wow. I'll bet if someone says the temperature has gone up 3 degrees you'll run around yelling we're all gonna die of the heat.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Amen, acting like he only wants positive pro coyotes poster in this thread

Meh. The "this shouldn't be a safe space for Coyotes" people never ever get that it's also not a safe space for the relocationistas. Don't dish what you cannot take.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Meh. The "this shouldn't be a safe space for Coyotes" people never ever get that it's also not a safe space for the relocationistas. Don't dish what you cannot take.

Phoenix has a team. It won't stop until this saga does. The "don't dish what you can't take" only makes sense if "relocationists" are allowed to post what ever they like, a la coyotes fan.

 

[awfulwaffle]

If only attendance was the only issue facing this "organization"....

What's the issue if there is an owner willing to keep them in AZ? They are the ones taking on the expenses. Yes, the NHL owned the team for a time but now have an owner that is willing to shell out $1B for an arena. So what's the issue with this owner and team exactly?

 

[Stumbledore]

What's the issue if there is an owner willing to keep them in AZ? They are the ones taking on the expenses. Yes, the NHL owned the team for a time but now have an owner that is willing to shell out $1B for an arena. So what's the issue with this owner and team exactly?

After all these thousands of posts going back like a decade or more and you're asking what exactly is the issue?

Son, if you haven't got your head around the issue by now, there's nothing anyone here could say that would help you understand.

 

[LPHabsFan]

What's the issue if there is an owner willing to keep them in AZ? They are the ones taking on the expenses. Yes, the NHL owned the team for a time but now have an owner that is willing to shell out $1B for an arena. So what's the issue with this owner and team exactly?

If you actually believe that the various individuals/groups over the past 10 years have actually transferred the money they say they bought the team for, and subsequently took on all the assumed debt, and was also took on the extra debt incurred while owning the team, then I have a bridge I'd like to talk to you about.

Also, 1 billion for an arena? I mean first and foremost, it's not just an arena, it's an entertainment district. Secondly, it's about 1.7 billion according to reports not 1 billion. Thirdly, I don't know if public information has been released on it but there is no way ever that something like this is ever done by an individual but rather a group of business owners which means he's not paying for all of it. Fourthly, we've already gotten reports of the group asking for money from the government and there's no way it stops at the reported 200 million (I think it's that number but I'm not sure). Fifthly, how many times has these entertainment districts been proposed, started to be built, and never actually finished due to various reasons (pretty sure there might be an example not too far from Tempe). Sixthly, you don't need an anchor tenant that's a bottomless pit like the Coyotes to have a profitable arena but it obviously looks better to potential investors who don't due their due diligence.

I think that's it for now.

 

[awfulwaffle]

After all these thousands of posts going back like a decade or more and you're asking what exactly is the issue?

Son, if you haven't got your head around the issue by now, there's nothing anyone here could say that would help you understand.

The issue is there are people that are somehow determined to get the coyotes to leave arizona, despite the fact they have a billionaire owner that is dedicated to keeping the team in arizona.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

The issue is there are people that are somehow determined to get the coyotes to leave arizona, despite the fact they have a billionaire owner that is dedicated to keeping the team in arizona.

Laugh all you want but you're among the guilty. Also how y'all Toronto people feeling about southern hockey right about now? Feels good, don't it?

Signed,
Raised in Central Florida.

 

[Stumbledore]

The issue is there are people that are somehow determined to get the coyotes to leave arizona, despite the fact they have a billionaire owner that is dedicated to keeping the team in arizona.

First you write "what exactly is the issue?" And I answered.

Now you write, "The issue is..."

If you already had an answer made up, why are you asking the question? In my world, we call that clear evidence of a closed mind.

 

[KevFu]

Then again, how much of the Coyotes problems are due to piss poor ownership?

That's a factor, sure. But it's really more about the geography...

Phoenix has a team.

Well, the team plays 20 minutes west of PHX, and PHX isn't the center of population distribution for the DMA, Tempe is.

 

[TheLegend]

Wow, massive overreaction followed by a dose of "Whatabout-ism".

The Legend said that the Coyotes were increasing their attendance. I posted figures which proved that the increase was miniscule.

And you reply with does every team that doesn't sell out every night should be sold or moved? Wow. I mean, just wow. I'll bet if someone says the temperature has gone up 3 degrees you'll run around yelling we're all gonna die of the heat.

I’ll see your what-about-ism and raise your revisionism.

I responded to Aqib’s drive by remark about attendance dropping off because the “novelty” wore off.

The fact that attendance had increased the two seasons up to the pause counters that.

So now you want to claim it was insignificant.

That’s your opinion. Just as two years back to back increases in my opinion means it’s not “a novelty.”

 

[TheLegend]

You don't need to be dismissive.

You just resort to being dismissive when you can't address contrary points.

I’m dismissive over points about the Coyotes that have been beaten to death in this forum since 2009.

Once upon a time it was “Coyotes tickets are too damn cheap”

Now they’re too expensive.

And so on.

If you were late to the party then that’s not my fault.

 

[MNNumbers]

"This is a not a drive by......I'm actually trying to think about this.....

"Tickets too cheap" is intended to say, "There is not enough interest in the team and the games market-wide to be sustainable"

"Tickets too expensive" is intended to say "I don't think they will sell them, and that proves the ownership still doesn't know what it's doing."

Personally, I think the truth is that the team has NEVER had an owner in Arizona who really understood the market or considered the area where his arena was located. I think that, if done correctly, there would have been no need to burn the bridge with Glendale. However, no one (especially not IA) wanted to take the time to actually do it correctly. (And that may be because it would have taken a lot of work, and there might be lower lying fruit in other businesses to attend to.)

I make no predictions about what will happen. I would only say "I am interested to see what the attendance is actually like at ASU." And, I hope that some of the local posters will give truthful accounts as to what they paid for their tickets (The Coyotes' board might help, and full disclosure, I read there, but don't post, of course). This information would tell us more about the market - in the sense that it is really the big spenders who decide whether a team can survive or not - and their choice does depend a little on how much of an 'event' the game becomes, I suppose (I mean that corporate sponsors won't want to pay a lot for suites in a dull, empty atmosphere).

And, I am even more interested to see what Tempe actually does with the proposal. Like Legend, I am curious about that $200M. And, I am curious if Tempe is wise enough to make sure that the development gets built before handing out a bunch of money.

Finally, editorializing - I don't like Meruelo. So, I kind of hope it fails. But not because I don't like the Yotes' fans. They have carried a heavy burden for years, and they deserve better.

 

[gstommylee]

"This is a not a drive by......I'm actually trying to think about this.....

"Tickets too cheap" is intended to say, "There is not enough interest in the team and the games market-wide to be sustainable"

"Tickets too expensive" is intended to say "I don't think they will sell them, and that proves the ownership still doesn't know what it's doing."

Personally, I think the truth is that the team has NEVER had an owner in Arizona who really understood the market or considered the area where his arena was located. I think that, if done correctly, there would have been no need to burn the bridge with Glendale. However, no one (especially not IA) wanted to take the time to actually do it correctly. (And that may be because it would have taken a lot of work, and there might be lower lying fruit in other businesses to attend to.)

I make no predictions about what will happen. I would only say "I am interested to see what the attendance is actually like at ASU." And, I hope that some of the local posters will give truthful accounts as to what they paid for their tickets (The Coyotes' board might help, and full disclosure, I read there, but don't post, of course). This information would tell us more about the market - in the sense that it is really the big spenders who decide whether a team can survive or not - and their choice does depend a little on how much of an 'event' the game becomes, I suppose (I mean that corporate sponsors won't want to pay a lot for suites in a dull, empty atmosphere).

And, I am even more interested to see what Tempe actually does with the proposal. Like Legend, I am curious about that $200M. And, I am curious if Tempe is wise enough to make sure that the development gets built before handing out a bunch of money.

Finally, editorializing - I don't like Meruelo. So, I kind of hope it fails. But not because I don't like the Yotes' fans. They have carried a heavy burden for years, and they deserve better.

You just want the team to leave and go somewhere else. Then what happens if there's another person that wants to keep the team there you want that person to fail you and so on and so on. Give it a rest.. No one wants to see a market lose the team and trust me i been there when we lost our NBA team.

 

[TheLegend]

You just want the team to leave and go somewhere else. Then what happens if there's another person that wants to keep the team there you want that person to fail you and so on and so on. Give it a rest.. No one wants to see a market lose the team and trust me i been there when we lost our NBA team.

Not what he said.

Realize the Coyotes almost were the new Minnesota team and not the expansion Wild he has now. It's something he wouldn't wish on anyone and in some ways he's right.

It's just he sees the current situation as nothing but more than what's been going on the last 20 years. Meruelo has not made himself look very admirable in the public sense with the reported brow beating of vendors, the toxic work environment outlined in the Katie Strang article, the unpaid taxes.... and so on.

But that can change.

 

[MNNumbers]

You just want the team to leave and go somewhere else. Then what happens if there's another person that wants to keep the team there you want that person to fail you and so on and so on. Give it a rest.. No one wants to see a market lose the team and trust me i been there when we lost our NBA team.

To be honest about it, I don't think there is any place for the team to go. Many here say Houston is possible. I live in Houston now. I don't think it works. Fertitta is not going to pay what the league wants. A few here say Quebec. But with every passing year, that ship sails a little further away. While it might have worked in 2013, 2022 is much much harder to do.

I don't like Meruelo because I think people should run their businesses honestly. I don't like the NHL because the BOG and Bettman have not been very forthcoming about this whole Arizona situation for a long time. What I actually hope happens is that they get stuck with a 5000 seat barn and nothing else to do. The egg on their faces for such a thing would be perfect.

 

[Stumbledore]

Not what he said.

Realize the Coyotes almost were the new Minnesota team and not the expansion Wild he has now. It's something he wouldn't wish on anyone and in some ways he's right.

It's just he sees the current situation as nothing but more than what's been going on the last 20 years. Meruelo has not made himself look very admirable in the public sense with the reported brow beating of vendors, the toxic work environment outlined in the Katie Strang article, the unpaid taxes.... and so on.

But that can change.

Leopard meet Meruelo.

Meruelo meet leopard.

 

[OG6ix]

To be honest about it, I don't think there is any place for the team to go. Many here say Houston is possible. I live in Houston now. I don't think it works. Fertitta is not going to pay what the league wants. A few here say Quebec. But with every passing year, that ship sails a little further away. While it might have worked in 2013, 2022 is much much harder to do.

I don't like Meruelo because I think people should run their businesses honestly. I don't like the NHL because the BOG and Bettman have not been very forthcoming about this whole Arizona situation for a long time. What I actually hope happens is that they get stuck with a 5000 seat barn and nothing else to do. The egg on their faces for such a thing would be perfect.

Apparently there is another group in Houston as well if you listen to the locals on Twitter that could play temporarily in NRG stadium while an arena is built in Houston. There is also the Jazz owner that has been poking around and of course the NHL could take control of ownership again and relocate the team to a market they desire (Portland, San Diego, KC etc) until an owner comes by.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Apparently there is another group in Houston as well if you listen to the locals on Twitter that could play temporarily in NRG stadium while an arena is built in Houston. There is also the Jazz owner that has been poking around and of course the NHL could take control of ownership again and relocate the team to a market they desire (Portland, San Diego, KC etc) until an owner comes by.

there is 0% chance the NHL takes an interest in running Arizona when there's an owner already in place.

 

[OG6ix]

there is 0% chance the NHL takes an interest in running Arizona when there's an owner already in place.

Ahhh Hutch I'm talking about a scenario where the current owner wants out and no one wants to buy the team and relocate it to a market the NHL desires.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Ahhh Hutch I'm talking about a scenario where the current owner wants out and no one wants to buy the team and relocate it to a market the NHL desires.

PROVE where it states Merulo wants out,