Cryptocurrencies Part III - We ran as if to meet the Moon

The Crypto Guy

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Jun 26, 2017
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I can't wait to sell my ETH but out of curiousity, what was keeping it at that ~$2000 price point after the big crash? I'm surprised it didn't bottom out. I remember reading on the use-cases for ETH and the meta-verse being a big one, seeing how that's going so poorly i'm not sure what's keeping the price afloat. Let alone the recent price surge
The metaverse? That’s such a tiny drop in the bucket of Ethereum. You need to do some more research of what Ethereum is and what it’s capable of. And Ethereum had nothing to do with that failed project, they were just using the blockchain to run it on.

You are also going to be kicking yourself if you’re looking to sell now at the start of a bullrun. The next 2 years are going to be exciting. I’ll be grabbing some profits at 3K.
 

x Tame Impala

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The metaverse? That’s such a tiny drop in the bucket of Ethereum. You need to do some more research of what Ethereum is and what it’s capable of. And Ethereum had nothing to do with that failed project, they were just using the blockchain to run it on.

You are also going to be kicking yourself if you’re looking to sell now at the start of a bullrun. The next 2 years are going to be exciting. I’ll be grabbing some profits at 3K.
We’ll see. Gaming, identity protection, financial transactions, advertising. Ethereum didn’t cause it to fail. I’m saying metaverse was being discussed as a major use case for Ethereum had MV kicked off like Zuckerberg hoped for.
 

McGarnagle

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Aug 5, 2017
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Sharks taking profits driving us way down today. But this doesn't appear to be on fundamentals, just profit taking.

I saw a tweet that mentioned that about 60% of BTC has not circulated in the last two years, meaning that 60% of people have HODLed from over $65,000 down to about $16,000 and back to the $40s. Shows the level of long-term conviction among devotees. That or they lost their keys.
 

BreadManPanarin

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Mar 15, 2017
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Everybody doing good? :)

Trying to remember, who was the guy on here a couple years ago that was completely convinced that ADA would outperform Bitcoin long term?
 

BreadManPanarin

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Mar 15, 2017
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Look who's back! Been awhile!
Hey! How's it going?

I didn't even know they started a new forum for this purpose! I just checked the ADABTC chart on TradingView today and saw it is -80% from ATH, so it reminded me of my buddy on here who I went back and forth with about ADA vs BTC at length back during the last cycle. lol
 
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McGarnagle

Yes.
Aug 5, 2017
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Everybody doing good? :)

Trying to remember, who was the guy on here a couple years ago that was completely convinced that ADA would outperform Bitcoin long term?
brent-rambo-ok.gif
 
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BreadManPanarin

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Mar 15, 2017
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Hope your bag is big enough, we are about to take off!
Never unloaded any of it. BTC (and to a much lesser degree MSTR) make up >80% of my liquid net worth. I sleep like a baby every night.

I do plan to actually take some profits this cycle via selling the MSTR Dec '25 call options I'm holding, but I won't be selling any of my bitcoin.
 
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BreadManPanarin

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Mar 15, 2017
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Reading through all the posts I missed over the past year and a half. There's some gems.
By all accounts, this crash is permanent.
Lol!

The Crypto Guy you took quite a beating from people who were dancing on the grave back in Nov '22. Glad I stopped participating here before the crash and didn't have to deal with all that. Good job continuing to articulate your conviction during that period.

Will catch up on pages 36-41 tomorrow. I'm sure there's more amusement to be had.
 
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Non Player Canadiens

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Jan 25, 2012
11,053
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Maplewood, NJ
so ... casino ups and downs are neat but when does this actually start being useful in society? i don't understand what the end game is ... replace FiAt cUrReNcY wOrLdWiDe or just like ... collecting hockey cards?
 
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The Crypto Guy

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Jun 26, 2017
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so ... casino ups and downs are neat but when does this actually start being useful in society? i don't understand what the end game is ... replace FiAt cUrReNcY wOrLdWiDe or just like ... collecting hockey cards?
Still upset you didn't invest when you should of?

Keep staying ignorant.
 

BreadManPanarin

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Mar 15, 2017
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so ... casino ups and downs are neat but when does this actually start being useful in society? i don't understand what the end game is ... replace FiAt cUrReNcY wOrLdWiDe or just like ... collecting hockey cards?
To better frame the “casino ups and downs” with regard to bitcoin, i recommend first reading about “Gartner hype cycles” to understand why the ups and downs occur, and then looking at a logarithmic chart of the bitcoin price over the past 15 years to understand just how often the ups have outpaced the downs, and to what orders of magnitude.

Here is a visual representation of my point above:
GDNQLZVWkAEGuQH.jpg


For the past 13 years Bitcoin has gone through a repeated pattern of Gartner hype cycles in which it experiences three straight years of significant upward volatility, followed by one year of significant downward volatility. Assuming this established pattern holds (not guaranteed obviously), then 2022 was the latest “crash year”, 2023 was the first green year (+150% or so), and 2024 and 2025 are both likely to be years in which we see continued significant upward volatility. This is of course in large part due to the halving which takes place in April 2024, and will probably be aided/magnified in part due to Bitcoin Spot ETFs likely being approved by the SEC this year which will allow larger pools of capital to take positions with significantly more regulatory clarity and ease of access.

So while Bitcoin's price is extremely volatile and difficult to predict on short time frames, it has (at least historically speaking) been very predictable on long time frames. Here's another way to visualize this phenomenon:

FqbaM7naYAEq4GU.jpg


It is almost like clockwork when visualized properly, rather than just on a linear graph where it looks like one big a tulip bubble/crash.

As to when it is useful in society, I would argue that it already is. It allows people to store their wealth in a way that no one else can censor or confiscate it, and if they hold onto it long enough it has historically increased their purchasing power dramatically, which allows them to increase their ability to allocate capital in the economy. Bitcoin mining also has a very substantial benefit for environmental purposes between its ability to monetize waste natural gas that would otherwise be vented or flared into the atmosphere, to monetize stranded energy like hydroelectric dams that have insufficient demand for local delivery, to help new renewable energy projects reach break-even and profitability more quickly, and to help build a flexible base demand load which allows power grids to be stabilized and meet higher than usual needs during times of emergency. A whole essay could be written on this topic, but that's just a quick overview. Here's a whitepaper on the topic:

Bitcoin is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future (ARK/Square)
 
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Non Player Canadiens

Registered User
Jan 25, 2012
11,053
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Maplewood, NJ
Still upset you didn't invest when you should of?

Keep staying ignorant.
not upset. I've been doing fine this whole time. there are other ways to grow your money you know.

i just find funny that the narrative has shifted from "world-changing technology" to whatever this is, a stagnant Bigger Fool scam.

To better frame the “casino ups and downs” with regard to bitcoin, i recommend first reading about “Gartner hype cycles” to understand why the ups and downs occur, and then looking at a logarithmic chart of the bitcoin price over the past 15 years to understand just how often the ups have outpaced the downs, and to what orders of magnitude.

Here is a visual representation of my point above:
View attachment 799329

For the past 13 years Bitcoin has gone through a repeated pattern of Gartner hype cycles in which it experiences three straight years of significant upward volatility, followed by one year of significant downward volatility. Assuming this established pattern holds (not guaranteed obviously), then 2022 was the latest “crash year”, 2023 was the first green year (+150% or so), and 2024 and 2025 are both likely to be years in which we see continued significant upward volatility. This is of course in large part due to the halving which takes place in April 2024, and will probably be aided/magnified in part due to Bitcoin Spot ETFs likely being approved by the SEC this year which will allow larger pools of capital to take positions with significantly more regulatory clarity and ease of access.
yes but that's true for all finance right? all other things being equal, the overall pattern is one of growth

anyway, good on crypto for embracing more regulation, which it badly needs. but isn't that in contradiction to crypto's libertarian "**** the feds" ethos?
 

BreadManPanarin

Registered User
Mar 15, 2017
4,600
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anyway, good on crypto for embracing more regulation, which it badly needs. but isn't that in contradiction to crypto's libertarian "**** the feds" ethos?
I won't speak on crypto in general, as I personally have no interest in it. My interest is exclusively in Bitcoin, but I don't blame or decry others for having interest in the broader crypto ecosystem.

Bitcoin is not embracing more regulation. Bitcoin is not aware of the regulation, nor is it affected by the regulation. It is just software that is running on computers around the world, which the regulation has no power whatsoever to affect. The regulation affects how people in local jurisdictions can interact with Bitcoin in terms of on-ramps and off-ramps to the traditional financial system. This regulation was inevitable and is unavoidable, and it doesn't really matter how cypherpunk libertarians feel about it. Nation states around the world will regulate it as they see fit, and people will either choose to comply with regulations or not to comply with regulations, and if caught in non-compliance then they'll be punished accordingly.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,296
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Any of you guys know anything about the game Big Time?


There's crypto/NFTs attached to it somehow but I'm not really familiar with what they're doing.
 

bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
14,566
6,647
To better frame the “casino ups and downs” with regard to bitcoin, i recommend first reading about “Gartner hype cycles” to understand why the ups and downs occur, and then looking at a logarithmic chart of the bitcoin price over the past 15 years to understand just how often the ups have outpaced the downs, and to what orders of magnitude.

Here is a visual representation of my point above:
View attachment 799329

For the past 13 years Bitcoin has gone through a repeated pattern of Gartner hype cycles in which it experiences three straight years of significant upward volatility, followed by one year of significant downward volatility. Assuming this established pattern holds (not guaranteed obviously), then 2022 was the latest “crash year”, 2023 was the first green year (+150% or so), and 2024 and 2025 are both likely to be years in which we see continued significant upward volatility. This is of course in large part due to the halving which takes place in April 2024, and will probably be aided/magnified in part due to Bitcoin Spot ETFs likely being approved by the SEC this year which will allow larger pools of capital to take positions with significantly more regulatory clarity and ease of access.

So while Bitcoin's price is extremely volatile and difficult to predict on short time frames, it has (at least historically speaking) been very predictable on long time frames. Here's another way to visualize this phenomenon:

View attachment 799332

It is almost like clockwork when visualized properly, rather than just on a linear graph where it looks like one big a tulip bubble/crash.

As to when it is useful in society, I would argue that it already is. It allows people to store their wealth in a way that no one else can censor or confiscate it, and if they hold onto it long enough it has historically increased their purchasing power dramatically, which allows them to increase their ability to allocate capital in the economy. Bitcoin mining also has a very substantial benefit for environmental purposes between its ability to monetize waste natural gas that would otherwise be vented or flared into the atmosphere, to monetize stranded energy like hydroelectric dams that have insufficient demand for local delivery, to help new renewable energy projects reach break-even and profitability more quickly, and to help build a flexible base demand load which allows power grids to be stabilized and meet higher than usual needs during times of emergency. A whole essay could be written on this topic, but that's just a quick overview. Here's a whitepaper on the topic:

Bitcoin is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future (ARK/Square)
One of the dumbest things I've ever read.
 

McGarnagle

Yes.
Aug 5, 2017
29,392
39,916
The SEC tweeted that the BTC ETF was approved, but then pulled back claiming they were hacked, so it sent prices out of whack for an hour or so. The biggest winner is that ETH jumped on that news. Interesting that investors seem to be gauging ETH's value in relation to BTC'd value and not against the USD.

The ETF is inevitable though and will send BTC significantly up.
 
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Toothless Legend

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Oct 15, 2021
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The SEC tweeted that the BTC ETF was approved, but then pulled back claiming they were hacked, so it sent prices out of whack for an hour or so. The biggest winner is that ETH jumped on that news. Interesting that investors seem to be gauging ETH's value in relation to BTC'd value and not against the USD.

The ETF is inevitable though and will send BTC significantly up.
I love that the SEC's inept infosec practices led to a significant short-term market fluctuations of something they claim is a security. Ironically, if this was a private actor, the SEC would be hitting them with a 10b5 anti-fraud action.
 

The Crypto Guy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
27,107
34,764
The SEC tweeted that the BTC ETF was approved, but then pulled back claiming they were hacked, so it sent prices out of whack for an hour or so. The biggest winner is that ETH jumped on that news. Interesting that investors seem to be gauging ETH's value in relation to BTC'd value and not against the USD.

The ETF is inevitable though and will send BTC significantly up.

Absolutely a joke and market manipulation at its finest. I'm sure the US Gov't sold right when it went up and then bought back cheaper after the "hacked announcement". Such a joke. But like we knew, when the real announcement comes, the price is going to rocket.
I love that the SEC's inept infosec practices led to a significant short-term market fluctuations of something they claim is a security. Ironically, if this was a private actor, the SEC would be hitting them with a 10b5 anti-fraud action.

Bingo!
 
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McGarnagle

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Aug 5, 2017
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If I were younger and had less responsibilities I'd start selling the rest of my portfolio, borrow from my 401k, and go into leverage in order to completely max into BTC.

But I'm not that financially insane so I'm holding with what I have.
 

BreadManPanarin

Registered User
Mar 15, 2017
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If I were younger and had less responsibilities I'd start selling the rest of my portfolio, borrow from my 401k, and go into leverage in order to completely max into BTC.

But I'm not that financially insane so I'm holding with what I have.
Anything more than 80% of portfolio with no leverage is too wild for me.

And I'm only comfortable going that far out on the risk curve because I'm young, own my own business and have very reliable cash flow.

In general my advice to people is don't put anything more into bitcoin than you can afford to lose, though more practically speaking I wouldn't expect it to be lost - it just might go down 80% and not recover for several years. lol
 
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McGarnagle

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Aug 5, 2017
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Anything more than 80% of portfolio with no leverage is too wild for me.

And I'm only comfortable going that far out on the risk curve because I'm young, own my own business and have very reliable cash flow.

In general my advice to people is don't put anything more into bitcoin than you can afford to lose, though more practically speaking I wouldn't expect it to be lost - it just might go down 80% and not recover for several years. lol
Mine is at 40% right now and has overtaken TSLA as my largest holding.
 
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BreadManPanarin

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Mine is at 40% right now and has overtaken TSLA as my largest holding.
Going into SP500 inclusion my portfolio was 100% TSLA. Today it is 0%.

Still love the company, drive a Model 3, can't wait for my Cybertruck reservation to be ready, but it is hard for me to imagine a realistic scenario in which it doesn't get dramatically outperformed by BTC over the next year +. I'll definitely pick up some shares again at some point.
 
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McGarnagle

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Aug 5, 2017
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ETFs are approved! We did it!

Market hasn't moved at all with the announcement, little bit of selling the news actually, but it's past market hours and tomorrow morning all the big megafunds will have to start buying bitcoin to stock their funds so it has to drive upward.

Going into SP500 inclusion my portfolio was 100% TSLA. Today it is 0%.

Still love the company, drive a Model 3, can't wait for my Cybertruck reservation to be ready, but it is hard for me to imagine a realistic scenario in which it doesn't get dramatically outperformed by BTC over the next year +. I'll definitely pick up some shares again at some point.
I was like 70%-80% TSLA from like 2020 to early 2023. I still believe in the company and their competitive advantage over other carmakers and energy companies, but the momentum slowed and as Elon gets tied up in destroying twitter it's having a cooling effect on his actual innovative ventures like Tesla and SpaceX.

I haven't even sold any, I just stopped buying and added other FAANGs and Bitcoin with the new money brought in as I intentionally wanted to rebalance.
 
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