Crosby-Malkin-Stamkos-Giroux-Karlsson vs. McDavid-Draisaitl-Matthews-MacKinnon-Makar

[Midnight Judges]

Ovie should really be in there for the old guard.

That would make the question too easy.

As is, it’s a pretty good poll.

 

[Gurglesons]

Seems like a weird poll.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

11-12 Malkin is arguably the best season by anyone post lockout. He's on par with McDavid and Crosby here. And at this point in his career Crosby was as good if not better offensively than McDavid considering the lower scoring era.

Crosby >= McDavid
Malkin > Draisaitl
Stamkos = Matthews
Giroux < MacKinnon
Karlsson = Makar

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Well that is a pretty specific time period. I'm not sure the number distribution would necessarily go the way you suggest.

I have no numbers because I have not dove in but my understanding is that last season was when we saw a big jump. If that is accurate we need to look at some of the numbers the prior years.

The impression I have (and I could be totally wrong) is that a lot of the young forwards were already producing at extremely high levels. Where I noticed the most profound change was among dmen.

Crosby for example never exceeded 120 points after his sophomore peak in 06/07. McDavid had 116 point season 4 years ago so beating Crosby was going to happen. Matthews goal rate was also at a very high rate from his rookie season on.

You can't just say scoring was up because it's easier without pointing to changes on the game that account for it. The possibility does exist that the league is simply more talented.

It does strike me as possible goaltending is weaker but that's still a vague explanation.

Scoring has been very high the last 3 years

 

[hamzarocks]

That would make the question too easy.

As is, it’s a pretty good poll.

This is I think based on the 2012 season which was OVs worst.

That's why he isn't included

Otherwise the big 4 forwards for 2010-2018ish were

Crosby, OV, Geno, Stamkos and then EK as the D

 

[CanadienShark]

McDavid ≥ Crosby
Draisaitl ≈ Malkin
MacKinnon ≥ Giroux
Matthews ≥ Stamkos
Makar ≈ Karlsson

It's close between all players and I could hear arguments for the other side, but I'll take the younger group here. If Ovechkin were here instead of Giroux or Stamkos, I'm taking the older guys.

 

[DrDangles]

11-12 Malkin is arguably the best season by anyone post lockout. He's on par with McDavid and Crosby here. And at this point in his career Crosby was as good if not better offensively than McDavid considering the lower scoring era.

Crosby >= McDavid
Malkin > Draisaitl
Stamkos = Matthews
Giroux < MacKinnon
Karlsson = Makar

Malkin's 11-12 and Sid's 13-14 are going to be overlooked historically due to their era. There are as many guys breaking 100 points in today's league as there were breaking 80 points in the DPE 2.0

 

[Dingo]

Stamkos tied Matthews for points in the 2022 year.

Is 2022 Stamkos better than 2012 Stamkos?

Or did scoring change dramatically?

another funny thing here is that hindsight is 20/20, and Giroux especially faded from the older group.

Someone of these young players will likely fade and not be considered an up and coming phenom in a few years. As it is also forgotten that Giroux that year was considered a two way guy with an incredible offensive ceiling… but hindsight showed that that was his ceiling or perhaps is even regarded as an anomaly.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is I think based on the 2012 season which was OVs worst.

That's why he isn't included

Otherwise the big 4 forwards for 2010-2018ish were

Crosby, OV, Geno, Stamkos and then EK as the D

It's an odd season to choose for Crosby given it's the one he only played 22 games in and will be downplayed because of that.

Either one of Crosby's best full seasons should have been used or pick one of his partial seasons where he was flat out dominant (ie. his 41 game season or the strike shortened 2013 season where he won the Lindsay despite missing a dozen games).

 

[Sparksrus3]

Which group would you rather have for one season if everyone was healthy?

2011-12 Group	Age	GP	G	A	PTS		2021-22 Group	Age	GP	G	A	PTS
Sidney Crosby	24	22	8	29	37		Connor McDavid	25	80	44	79	123
Evgeni Malkin	25	75	50	59	109		Leon Draisaitl	26	80	55	55	110
Steven Stamkos	21	82	60	37	97		Auston Matthews	24	73	60	46	106
Claude Giroux	24	77	28	65	93		Nathan MacKinnon	26	65	32	56	88
Erik Karlsson	21	81	19	59	78		Cale Makar	23	77	28	58	86

Connor and friends

 

[North Cole]

Seems to be a massive gap in goal scoring between the two groups. Probably need to get Giroux out of there.

 

[Gurglesons]

Stamkos tied Matthews for points in the 2022 year.

Is 2022 Stamkos better than 2012 Stamkos?

Or did scoring change dramatically?

another funny thing here is that hindsight is 20/20, and Giroux especially faded from the older group.

Someone of these young players will likely fade and not be considered an up and coming phenom in a few years. As it is also forgotten that Giroux that year was considered a two way guy with an incredible offensive ceiling… but hindsight showed that that was his ceiling or perhaps is even regarded as an anomaly.

Giroux and MacKinnon are pretty good comparisons outside of MacKinnon being able to have a management group that knows how to build instead of selling like their Rantanen and Landeskogs off so they can sign Bryz.

 

[x Tame Impala]

You guys are kidding yourselves by voting for the 2021 team. Total recency bias and inability to understand scoring was more difficult 10 years ago

 

[AddyTheWrath]

McDavid / Crosby
Malkin / Draisaitl / Matthews
MacKinnon / Stamkos
Giroux

are how I have the forward tiers with Makar and Karlsson being about even.

Group B wins.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Malkin's 11-12 and Sid's 13-14 are going to be overlooked historically due to their era. There are as many guys breaking 100 points in today's league as there were breaking 80 points in the DPE 2.0

Sid's 2014 should be overlooked because it simply wasn't that good. He had an unusual 35 secondary assists - mostly on the power play. Otherwise he wasn't any better than his 4 subsequent 80-something point seasons.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Gotta go with the best player here and thats easily crosby

 

[Duffalufagus]

You serious, Clark?

 

[GreeningOil]

You guys are kidding yourselves by voting for the 2021 team. Total recency bias and inability to understand scoring was more difficult 10 years ago

Maybe it wasn’t harder to score, but that there are many more high quality scoring players now that make it appear that way?

(Not trying to intentionally gaslight, just trying to start a discussion on it)

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

McDavids team, all day long.

McDavid > Crosby
Draisaitl => Malkin
Matthews > Stamkos
MacKinnon > Giroux
Makar > Karlsson

 

[nbwingsfan]

You could argue every single player on the McDavid team is better than their counterpart (with Matthews/Makar being much better)

This is a very easy one for me.

 

[Hynh]

If it is just the 2011-12 season vs 2021-22 season then 2021-22 wins on the strength of their combined playoff performances.

79 GP, 42-85-127, +38 (and the Conn Smythe)
vs
29 GP, 15-19-34, -2

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Stamkos and girioux are not winners. Stamkos only has 2 rings because of his teammates, one of the literal sense, the other of the other sense.

And McD, Drai, and Matthews are winners?

 

[DearDiary]

You can't just say scoring was up because it's easier without pointing to changes on the game that account for it. The possibility does exist that the league is simply more talented.

Higher league scoring due to 3on3 and goalies getting their equipment reduced.

Did something so obvious really need an explanation?

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.