Crosby is going to win the Rocket

[snipes]

I believe crosby will be able to match mcdavid at least until he's 31-32 tbh. The way Sid works maybe even longer. But mcdavid will eventually become the best in the world. But maybe later than sooner.

Sids work ethic and self-belief are the "x factor" here. He works so hard on his game and the nuances to improve. You have to think he can't imagine being anything but the best, he's not just going to bow down and let McDavid pass him. McDavid will have to take it from him.

Tough to say if Crosby still has a few more years as the King, McDavid has a skillset as I'm sure you saw during the Oilers-Pens game that I'm not sure we've ever seen before. But to overtake Sid, McDavid will need to continue to adapt and improve his game.

97 is just so dominant every time he steps on the ice, he's the best player every single time he steps out there. Even against Sid, McDavid dominated the match-up. I'm not sure we've ever seen anyone like him before, he's still a teenager and he's better than all of his NHL peers. Even Sid, it was obvious who had more pure talent when they played.

One thing that's clear is Crosby/McDavid are in their own tier and the best players to enter this league in the last 20ish years. To think we've had Gretzky and McDavid while you've had Lemieux and Crosby is worth a chuckle. We've had the best players of the past 40 years on our teams.

 

[authentic]

At what point was Forsberg ever considered unanimous best player in the world? Lindros, Iginla, Jagr, Kariya, Selanne, etc.

Every year there were plenty who were the top dogs with no absolute. Whenis the last time Crosby wasn't favourite for the main awards?

Maybe the year he won the Hart Trophy, lead the league in points while missing 7 games as well as finishing 4th in Selke voting, and none of the players you mentioned were in the top 18 in Hart voting, top 18 in Selke voting, or top 10 in points. That could've been the point.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Sids work ethic and self-belief are the "x factor" here. He works so hard on his game and the nuances to improve. You have to think he can't imagine being anything but the best, he's not just going to bow down and let McDavid pass him. McDavid will have to take it from him.

Tough to say if Crosby still has a few more years as the King, McDavid has a skillset as I'm sure you saw during the Oilers-Pens game that I'm not sure we've ever seen before. But to overtake Sid, McDavid will need to continue to adapt and improve his game.

97 is just so dominant every time he steps on the ice, he's the best player every single time he steps out there. Even against Sid, McDavid dominated the match-up. I'm not sure we've ever seen anyone like him before, he's still a teenager and he's better than all of his NHL peers. Even Sid, it was obvious who had more pure talent when they played.

One thing that's clear is Crosby/McDavid are in their own tier and the best players to enter this league in the last 20ish years. To think we've had Gretzky and McDavid while you've had Lemieux and Crosby is worth a chuckle. We've had the best players of the past 40 years on our teams.

I think crosby at the age of 29 has discovered a new formula. Well he was always great at tipping in pucks and always had a nose for the net. But he seems to be even better infrint of the net now and has even became more of the shooter on the pp and he is posted up in the slot a lot now.

Crosby is more of a chess player now.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Maybe the year he won the Hart Trophy, lead the league in points while missing 7 games as well as finishing 4th in Selke voting, and none of the players you mentioned were in the top 18 in Hart voting, top 18 in Selke voting, or top 10 in points. That could've been the point.

But was he pinned to be the best that year? Was he the best any other year? Honestly how many years has Crosby not been the best or at least predicted to be the best?

I'm no Crosby fan but the guy has been the best in the world his entire career, with the only real challenger being Ovechkin.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

When the best player in the world has 20 goals in 22 games your damn right there is an arguement.

Ovechkin still has the title but argue is the key word.

Ovechkin has almost 200 more goals than Crosby.

Jarome Iginla also has more goals than Crosby from 2005 onward.

 

[Shrimper]

Crosby has another 10 games before the new year. If he can get 5 more goals in that span then I'd feel fairly strongly about him getting 50. Would need 25 in around 45 games I think.

 

[Canuck21t]

Maybe the year he won the Hart Trophy, lead the league in points while missing 7 games as well as finishing 4th in Selke voting, and none of the players you mentioned were in the top 18 in Hart voting, top 18 in Selke voting, or top 10 in points. That could've been the point.

Forsberg was never the unanimous best. I never thought he was the best at any point in his career.

It annoys me when people say Crosby is a "level above" Forsberg, at least in terms of pure on-ice ability.

Crosby may get the nudge by pure numbers (and certainly has better career value at this point), but they are absolutely on the same tier of talent.

Absolutely not.

 

[snipes]

I think crosby at the age of 29 has discovered a new formula. Well he was always great at tipping in pucks and always had a nose for the net. But he seems to be even better infrint of the net now and has even became more of the shooter on the pp and he is posted up in the slot a lot now.

Crosby is more of a chess player now.

I agree. His hand-eye has always been excellent, but he's really thinking the game at a deep level like generational players do. The game slows down for him and he see's things others don't.

I think with Sid's work ethic, clean lifestyle, and commitment to being the best he can be he'll make up for the lost time early in his career. He's already done something unprecedented, captained a team to: Stanley Cup (x2), Olympic Gold, World Championship, and World Cup. All before he was 30.

Conceivably, he captains Canada to another Gold in 2018 (hopefully playing on the same line with McDavid) and another World Championship later in his career, he'll do something unprecedented twice. History will look fondly on that. Yes, team accomplishments but that cements his legacy as Captain Canada and one of the greatest to ever play.

I think when we look back on Crosby, we'll remember his work ethic and desire to be the best. He willed himself to great heights and overcame early potentially career ending obstacles to achieve virtually every trophy you can achieve in the game. The ultimate competitor.

I'm not sure if McDavid has that same mental strength or work ethic. I hope he does, but Sid is a unique individual and we're lucky to witness it. Like you said, he's developing new formulas and always improving. Having said that, I still maintain McDavid has a God-given skill-set Crosby never had and no one else in the NHL has.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Maybe the year he won the Hart Trophy, lead the league in points while missing 7 games as well as finishing 4th in Selke voting, and none of the players you mentioned were in the top 18 in Hart voting, top 18 in Selke voting, or top 10 in points. That could've been the point.

It was, and I in no way said Forsberg was as good, I just said it was not overrating to say that he was in the same realm as Crosby.

For those saying Jagr/Selanne etc I am not talking about the late 90s I am talking about the early 2000s. For a span of 2-3 years Forsberg was considered the best player on the planet. Selanne and Jagr were playing some of the worst hockey of their careers in San Jose and Washington, and Lindros was already concussed 6 or 7 times.

He was hurt a lot, missed the entire season in 01-02 but had 27 points in 20 playoff games. Won the Hart and Art Rotss the next season and then had 55 points in 39 games. That is a pace for 115 points in a season where the Hart and Art Ross winner had 94 points. Forsberg was still seen as the best player on the planet at that time.

 

[authentic]

But was he pinned to be the best that year? Was he the best any other year? Honestly how many years has Crosby not been the best or at least predicted to be the best?

I'm no Crosby fan but the guy has been the best in the world his entire career, with the only real challenger being Ovechkin.

No he wasn't the best as often as Crosby, or runner up, but I wasn't trying to say that anyway. Just saying he was considered the best in the world by many fans, coaches, gms and players in several NHL seasons.

 

[snipes]

It was, and I in no way said Forsberg was as good, I just said it was not overrating to say that he was in the same realm as Crosby.

For those saying Jagr/Selanne etc I am not talking about the late 90s I am talking about the early 2000s. For a span of 2-3 years Forsberg was considered the best player on the planet. Selanne and Jagr were playing some of the worst hockey of their careers in San Jose and Washington, and Lindros was already concussed 6 or 7 times.

He was hurt a lot, missed the entire season in 01-02 but had 27 points in 20 playoff games. Won the Hart and Art Rotss the next season and then had 55 points in 39 games. That is a pace for 115 points in a season where the Hart and Art Ross winner had 94 points. Forsberg was still seen as the best player on the planet at that time.

Nope. Even if it is conceded that Forsberg was the best player for one year, Crosby has been the best player for the better part of a decade.

I've watched both, I remember the Avalanche heyday in the 90s, sorry Forsberg was never in the realm Crosby is in. Not even close. At all.

 

[Crocket]

Crosby's at around 30% sh% too.

Not to say that I think Vesey will outscore Crosby.

Vesey couldn't outscore Crosby if Vesey was Playing in the AHL.

 

[authentic]

Nope. Even if it is conceded that Forsberg was the best player for one year, Crosby has been the best player for the better part of a decade.

I've watched both, I remember the Avalanche heyday in the 90s, sorry Forsberg was never in the realm Crosby is in. Not even close. At all.

See that's the type of crap I don't understand. That's just ignorance. You probably think McDavid right now is better than Forsberg ever was judging by your posts here, and I can tell you that's not true either. Not that he won't surpass him because I believe he will, but as he is right now he is not a better player than Forsberg, seems to me you have a selective memory or just were very young back in the day.

 

[authentic]

It was, and I in no way said Forsberg was as good, I just said it was not overrating to say that he was in the same realm as Crosby.

For those saying Jagr/Selanne etc I am not talking about the late 90s I am talking about the early 2000s. For a span of 2-3 years Forsberg was considered the best player on the planet. Selanne and Jagr were playing some of the worst hockey of their careers in San Jose and Washington, and Lindros was already concussed 6 or 7 times.

He was hurt a lot, missed the entire season in 01-02 but had 27 points in 20 playoff games. Won the Hart and Art Rotss the next season and then had 55 points in 39 games. That is a pace for 115 points in a season where the Hart and Art Ross winner had 94 points. Forsberg was still seen as the best player on the planet at that time.

He was better than either of them in the late 90s too. Pretty much from the beginning of his career he was a better player than Selanne or Kariya.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I agree. His hand-eye has always been excellent, but he's really thinking the game at a deep level like generational players do. The game slows down for him and he see's things others don't.

I think with Sid's work ethic, clean lifestyle, and commitment to being the best he can be he'll make up for the lost time early in his career. He's already done something unprecedented, captained a team to: Stanley Cup (x2), Olympic Gold, World Championship, and World Cup. All before he was 30.

Conceivably, he captains Canada to another Gold in 2018 (hopefully playing on the same line with McDavid) and another World Championship later in his career, he'll do something unprecedented twice. History will look fondly on that. Yes, team accomplishments but that cements his legacy as Captain Canada and one of the greatest to ever play.

I think when we look back on Crosby, we'll remember his work ethic and desire to be the best. He willed himself to great heights and overcame early potentially career ending obstacles to achieve virtually every trophy you can achieve in the game. The ultimate competitor.

I'm not sure if McDavid has that same mental strength or work ethic. I hope he does, but Sid is a unique individual and we're lucky to witness it. Like you said, he's developing new formulas and always improving. Having said that, I still maintain McDavid has a God-given skill-set Crosby never had and no one else in the NHL has.

And vice-versa.

Look at how clinical Crosby is at:

a) finding the soft spot
b) brushing away Boyle's stick and shooting in one fluid motion
c) finishing with precision

 

[snipes]

See that's the type of crap I don't understand. That's just ignorance. You probably think McDavid right now is better than Forsberg ever was judging by your posts here, and I can tell you that's not true either. Not that he won't surpass him because I believe he will, but as he is right now he is not a better player than Forsberg, seems to me you have a selective memory or just were very young back in the day.

Well natural talent and career accomplishments are different? Do you see the distinction?

Forsberg has achieved far more than McDavid, but talent wise, yup damn rights McDavid is more talented. Not selective memory, it's from historical knowledge of the game.

19 year old McDavid vs. peak Forsberg? Sure, I'll concede Forsbergs 1995-96 season at 22/23 years old he was a more talented player than a teenaged McDavid. But if we're talking talent at the same age? I'll take McDavid 10 times out of 10 at the same age. Do you want to argue that?

 

[snipes]

And vice-versa.

Look at how clinical Crosby is at:

a) finding the soft spot
b) brushing away Boyle's stick and shooting in one fluid motion
c) finishing with precision

See what I've said about nuances and work ethic, that's the "x factor" in Crosby's favour. He works so damn hard at his game and continually improves.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

He was better than either of them in the late 90s too. Pretty much from the beginning of his career he was a better player than Selanne or Kariya.

Better than Jagr in the late 90s?

 

[authentic]

Well natural talent and career accomplishments are different? Do you see the distinction?

Forsberg has achieved far more than McDavid, but talent wise, yup damn rights McDavid is more talented. Not selective memory, it's from historical knowledge of the game.

19 year old McDavid vs. peak Forsberg? Sure, I'll concede Forsbergs 1995-96 season at 22/23 years old he was a more talented player than a teenaged McDavid. But if we're talking talent at the same age? I'll take McDavid 10 times out of 10 at the same age. Do you want to argue that?

I'm not talking about career accomplishments. You speak of McDavid like he's Crosby's equal right now (as a player). And you say Crosby is on a much higher level as a player than Forsberg was. Plus I already said in my post I think McDavid will pass him, I have argued in other threads for McDavid to have been Crosby's equal or superior in his rookie season, and believe he would have put up more points than Crosby back in 06/07 when Crosby was the same age as he is now.

I just think you are underestimating the talent Forsberg was. This just based on offensive production alone and if you watched Forsberg a lot you know he brought a lot more than that.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...val=250&threshhold=5&order_by=points_per_game

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...1val=50&threshhold=5&order_by=points_per_game

Also this never hurts to remind people what type of player he was on the ice incase their memory gets a little foggy.

 

[mpp9]

Forsberg simply did not score enough to justify being put over Jagr and Sid. They were regular 35+ goal scorers. Sid likely missed out on a couple 50 goal campaigns in 11 and 12.

Defense, which is not a distinct advantage over Sid, and physicality do not make up for that.

 

[Dying Alive]

What do Forsberg or McDavid have to do with Crosby's chances at the Rocket?

 

[authentic]

Better than Jagr in the late 90s?

My bad, he did mention Jagr in the post I quoted. I only meant Selanne and Kariya.

 

[authentic]

What do Forsberg or McDavid have to do with Crosby's chances at the Rocket?

Unfortunately nothing.

 

[bobholly39]

Crosby has another 10 games before the new year. If he can get 5 more goals in that span then I'd feel fairly strongly about him getting 50. Would need 25 in around 45 games I think.

We'll see.

This is Sidney Crosby - an all-time great hockey Talent. If it was some other hockey player on such a hot streak (say Stamkos, Perry, Giroux) - i'd argue they're bound to slow down at some point and ~50 on the year seems like a good target.

But because it's Crosby (and i'd say the same about Ovechkin if he was the one with 20 goals in 22 games) - i think it's at least plausible he keeps up pace all year long, or very close.

50 goals may soon become a conservative estimate - 60 might start to become realistic. Maybe even upper 60s. We could be in for an all-time great goal-scoring season.

It'll be fun to watch. Obviously i'm a Crosby fan so i hope he keeps it up - but even as just a fan of hockey i think it'll be awesome if we can see something special this year from Crosby.

 

[snipes]

What do Forsberg or McDavid have to do with Crosby's chances at the Rocket?

Unfortunately nothing.

We agree here authentic. And to be clear re: Forsberg, he was absolutely elite and among the best just Crosby is a generational player who will likely be top 10 all time when it's all said and done. Insult wasn't meant.

This debate has nothing to do with the Rocket, it's always fun to debate hockey players with diehard fans that emerges organically.

This sprung out from other observations, my view is I think Crosby can win the Rocket and hopefully he does. I hope he lights the lamp and hits 66 goals (1 higher than Ovi's highest so we can put the nail in the coffin).