OT: Covid-19 (Part 50) You Better Watch Out

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sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
13,446
24,462
Toronto
He can put all the conditions he wants. As I tell my kids "Always look both ways when crossing the street as lights/stop signs don't make cars magically stop".

To each their own, but if you’re applying this logic to covid in defiance or just to spite the government, that’s terrible advice. Maybe unlike cars not stopping, covid won’t stop. Being careful and watching both ways is good and all, but while government regulations may not stop one from getting covid, taking unnecessary risks may.

Anyhow, I know plenty of people and family gathering this weekend. It’s a calculated risk, but me personally, I don’t need the government to tell me not to gather. Our family chose this on our own. Granted, my wife has pre-existing conditions so she’s more at risk, but it was tough to tell my mom yet again we won’t be seeing her. I haven’t seen her since December 2019.
 

cajmonkey

Registered User
Mar 29, 2014
3,541
1,162
To each their own, but if you’re applying this logic to covid in defiance or just to spite the government, that’s terrible advice. Maybe unlike cars not stopping, covid won’t stop. Being careful and watching both ways is good and all, but while government regulations may not stop one from getting covid, taking unnecessary risks may.

Anyhow, I know plenty of people and family gathering this weekend. It’s a calculated risk, but me personally, I don’t need the government to tell me not to gather. Our family chose this on our own. Granted, my wife has pre-existing conditions so she’s more at risk, but it was tough to tell my mom yet again we won’t be seeing her. I haven’t seen her since December 2019.

I'm not doing anything but celebrating Christmas with my family.

Btw, you may want to reread and then edit what you wrote. =) Things like "while government regulations may not stop one from getting covid, taking unnecessary risks may." make no sense whatsoever. Taking unnecessary risks will not stop one from getting covid.
 
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Licou

Registered User
Sep 10, 2007
3,580
2,931
Longuh
Mmmmm covid....


So guys....

MSN reported that Pfizer claims that a 3rd dose has "total" protection against Omicaron...

Yet reports in the same article that Omicron is still very unkown..


If you guys don't wake up sooner than later..


We will be living in a society where Blue is Black and red is green because your told so.

There are a handful of regulars I this thread that can provide you with a detailed answer back by data on how much protection and what kind of protection a 3rd dose of mrna vaccine will offer.

But I bet that's not what you are looking for right?
 

Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,403
28,335
Montreal
Not if one of the viruses' proteins isn't hit with a mutation.

1. Omicron has a bunch of mutations everywhere as I posted earlier (the gray zone are the other proteins)
SARS-CoV-2_Variant_B-1-1-529_Omicron_lineage_mutations.png



2. Only if said protein is immunogenic.

3. For infection prevention, it also need to have an impact on viral neutralization, which most of its protein won't. Disease severity is still pretty well covered by the spike vaccine.

Really? most of the mutations are on the spike. Targeting say 2 more proteins would have made sure a lot more mutations were necessary for escape.

See, you had an answer with more context. Can you say more about that reason to target the spike vs. another surface protein?

The only other surface proteins are the membrane and envelope protein and I haven't seen anything about neutralizing antibodies (or antibodies with other functions like ADCC). In fact, people rarely develop Env antibodies (SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies; longevity, breadth, and evasion by emerging viral variants ). Membrane antibodies are not much better( Antibody Response to SARS-CoV-2 Membrane Protein in Patients of the Acute and Convalescent Phase of COVID-19 ) with only two epitopes that are somewhat immunogenic and would thus be easy to evade.
 

Licou

Registered User
Sep 10, 2007
3,580
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Longuh
It it has no intention of slowing down.
Sadly, many people have died because they weren't allowed to use products that big pharma couldn't capitalize on.
Since when does a pharmacist have the right to over ride a doctor?

Can I ask you for a source and clarification on that statement. I am interested about this subject. Please provide factual information to help me understand.

Or are we talking about feelings here?
 

Crosside

Registered User
Aug 1, 2018
4,736
1,845
They can't cancel christmas, but they definitely can put unbearable conditions to celebrate it, at least that's what I think Quebec PM (Legault) will do today at 1PM.
Move to 6 pm

At Salut Bonjour, just said don’t think have change for Christmas but the 26 curfew, restaurant close for 14 days and business no essential close
 

llamateizer

Registered User
Mar 16, 2007
13,688
6,789
Montreal
Rassemblements dans les maisons | Un autre tour de vis

So basically the government is strongly considering reducing household gatherings from 10 people to 6 people during the holidays (but they may only start on Dec 26th). They also mention that they were considering a curfew, but that has been put aside for now (thank god).

Oh well, all my events are getting canceled one after the other .

NYE celebration with my family will have to be cancelled if that's the case. We're 3 bubbles that rented a cottage months Ago.

I'm mad of the incompetence
 

Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,403
28,335
Montreal
Mmmmm covid....


So guys....

MSN reported that Pfizer claims that a 3rd dose has "total" protection against Omicaron...

Yet reports in the same article that Omicron is still very unkown..


If you guys don't wake up sooner than later..


We will be living in a society where Blue is Black and red is green because your told so.

Where did you see total protection?
Here is what I see:
Pfizer says 3rd vaccine dose raises protection against Omicron variant
Pfizer: Protection against Omicron variant improves with 3 vaccine doses
Pfizer says vaccine booster dose protects against omicron variant
"improves", "raising protection", "provides strong protection" and "up to the level of the 2nd dose" is not "total protection".
 

Tyson

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
45,710
63,217
Texas
OK, slowly... Pharma doesn't make anywhere near as much money on vaccines as they do on other medications. They produce vaccines reluctantly. They are way happier to sell tons of ivermectin, especially when it's purely for entertainment. Pharmacies actually try to meet professional standards and keep people alive so some of them won't sell you the wrong "medication."

There are actually other medications. There are monoclonal antibodies, there is a pill that I can't remember if it is the same thing, and more coming. Most aren't available outside the US because big pharma is making money off them and can sell for more there, plus the US doesn't want to export because they have so many unvaccinated people getting sick. Canada is looking into getting a supply but it's very expensive if there is any available.

Hydrochloroquine, horse dewormer, and essential oils are all very, very much available they just don't help against COVID. If you have malaria or parasites you can get them. If you have COVID they won't help you even slightly, though they helped some people in tropical countries who had COVID and also had parasites.

Pharma companies in the US love the gullible anti vaccine people. They don't take vaccines so the pandemic gets worse, they take all sorts of other stuff that pharmas make and cause shortages so they can charge more, and then, since they haven't done anything to hinder the virus, they get really sick and need other treatments, asthma medications that are now in short supply, and the monoclonal antibodies that are very expensive but wouldn't be used much if people actually knew what "research" entails.

Actually people across the globe love the gullible anti vaccine people. They get suckered for everything, taken in over and over and laughed at by the people suckering them. Most of the anti vaccine propaganda on Facebook and Twitter started off with snake oil salesmen who are happy and rich now.
We are taught to trust our doctors and if they subscribe something should a pharmacist have the right to over rule that doctor? Was that pharmacist in the exam room with that patient and doctor?
Ivermectin has a human pill as well and simply calling it horse dewormer is not being totally honest.
And yes we may be gullible down here in the states but we know enough to know big Pharma spends billions on lobbyists and they control this narrative.
There is no push whatsoever for therapeutics and when Florida started setting up clinics around the states to help people with monoclonal medicine the feds stopped sending monoclonals to the state.
We keep seeing the same ineffective solutions being regurgitated instead of new solutions....why?
 

Overtime Period

OvertimePeriod
Jun 20, 2008
1,661
120
Montreal
Move to 6 pm

At Salut Bonjour, just said don’t think have change for Christmas but the 26 curfew, restaurant close for 14 days and business no essential close
Better not happen, I just got my dream job back at my hotel where I spent 13 years! I went through so much up and down with restaurants being closed. I broke down in front of my kids working for a job I didn’t like just trying to support my family during this whole thing! I got a call back to work in the job I love ! I can’t deal with this again….
 

Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,403
28,335
Montreal
We are taught to trust our doctors and if they subscribe something should a pharmacist have the right to over rule that doctor? Was that pharmacist in the exam room with that patient and doctor?
Ivermectin has a human pill as well and simply calling it horse dewormer is not being totally honest.
And yes we may be gullible down here in the states but we know enough to know big Pharma spends billions on lobbyists and they control this narrative.
There is no push whatsoever for therapeutics and when Florida started setting up clinics around the states to help people with monoclonal medicine the feds stopped sending monoclonals to the state.
We keep seeing the same ineffective solutions being regurgitated instead of new solutions....why?

Ivermectin: Debunking Ivermectin: A Complete Guide — ICU One Pager

MAb: From what I have seen it's more of a supply problem than a reluctance to send it ( Regeneron monoclonal antibodies in short supply as COVID crush hits Florida , South Florida monoclonal antibody sites run out of supply ). It's not very surprising as monoclonal antibodies are hard to produce compared to pills. You can't rush the production of biological products.

Also, Florida decided to close many of those sites when cases went down ( Florida to close half its monoclonal antibody sites | WFLA ).
 

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,890
13,687
Seriously, how can people gather right now with a straight face? You can almost feel that freaking omicron buzzing in the air. It's obvious this wave is more aggressive (in terms of contagion) than the others, and yet people can't take a break from socializing for a few weeks? Social people are the real responsible for this pandemic, like travelers.
 

Tyson

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
45,710
63,217
Texas
Seriously, how can people gather right now with a straight face? You can almost feel that freaking omicron buzzing in the air. It's obvious this wave is more aggressive (in terms of contagion) than the others, and yet people can't take a break from socializing for a few weeks? Social people are the real responsible for this pandemic, like travelers.
You can't blame people for having had enough and simply accepting that they have to live with the virus.
I am done with these restrictions which haven't worked, yet they keep doing the same crap that hasn't and won't work.
 

Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,403
28,335
Montreal
Whether or not Ivermectin works, a pharmacist should not be overruling the decision a doctor made unless the prescription will actively harm the patient.

It harms the patient because he is trusting ivermectin over other treatments.

There are many people who died because they placed all their eggs in the ivermectin basket and it failed.
 
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Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,403
28,335
Montreal
$$$ and corruption.

And honestly, just the fact you know big Pharma spends billions on lobbying is more than I can say about people in Quebec (probably the same in the rest of Canada), we're gullible as f***, just the fact they're making ten times what they spend and that they have judicial immunity over side effects should be enough, but what do I know. There's something rotten, but hey at least this time people seems more pissed than last time, so there's hope.

Let's just say some people long have mastered the art of mass media manipulation... 10 Strategies of Media Control According to Noam Chomsky

All vaccines have had "immunity" over side effects in Quebec via the vaccine compensation program since 1987. Canada finally made one too in 2020, the last country in the G7 to do so.
 

cajmonkey

Registered User
Mar 29, 2014
3,541
1,162
It harms the patient because he is trusting ivermectin over other treatments.

There are many people who died because they placed all their eggs in the ivermectin basket and it failed.

If a patient is choosing not to get the other treatments anyways, it is not harming the patient.

In this polarized pharma-political landscape, it's especially dangerous to allow a pharmacist to veto a doctor's decision, unless the prescription itself will be harmful.
 

Tyson

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
45,710
63,217
Texas
Ivermectin: Debunking Ivermectin: A Complete Guide — ICU One Pager

MAb: From what I have seen it's more of a supply problem than a reluctance to send it ( Regeneron monoclonal antibodies in short supply as COVID crush hits Florida , South Florida monoclonal antibody sites run out of supply ). It's not very surprising as monoclonal antibodies are hard to produce compared to pills. You can't rush the production of biological products.

Also, Florida decided to close many of those sites when cases went down ( Florida to close half its monoclonal antibody sites | WFLA ).
You seem like a very educated guy but believe me while I am not very articulate I am deeply involved in local politics, my school board and spend alot of time researching.
You sent 3 articles that I can find 3 articles to counter in seconds. So, what articles are factual?

This topic of Covid is deeply passionate for all of us but I keep wondering of the longterm damage we are doing by isolating kids, keeping them away from their friends, not having a normal childhood.
Who the hell thinks putting a mask on a 2 year old on a plane is good science? The filtration systems on a plane provides new air every 2-3 minutes.

Sorry for the tangent.
 

OnTheRun

/dev/null
May 17, 2014
12,180
10,685
We are taught to trust our doctors and if they subscribe something should a pharmacist have the right to over rule that doctor? Was that pharmacist in the exam room with that patient and doctor?
Ivermectin has a human pill as well and simply calling it horse dewormer is not being totally honest.
And yes we may be gullible down here in the states but we know enough to know big Pharma spends billions on lobbyists and they control this narrative.
There is no push whatsoever for therapeutics and when Florida started setting up clinics around the states to help people with monoclonal medicine the feds stopped sending monoclonals to the state.
We keep seeing the same ineffective solutions being regurgitated instead of new solutions....why?

For the record therapeutics (that actually work) are being pushed hard.


No one should be pushing hard for a glorified sugar-pill like Ivermectin to treat covid19.
 
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Tyson

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
45,710
63,217
Texas
For the record therapeutics (that actually work) are being pushed hard.


No one should be pushing hard for a glorified sugar-pill like Ivermectin to treat covid19.

Who are we to say if a doctor believes it will help a patient?
Doctors are pushing therapeutic medicine but the world governments keep rinsing and repeating. They should be leading the way.

Look,
I am not an ivermectin fan or expert, I do trust my doctor and if he prescribed it I would take it because that is his skilled set.
A pharmacist is not qualified to step in and overrule a doctor/patient decision.
 
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