Friedman: Could the Leafs target Seth Jones?

[Scintillating10]

Said on Kyper tonight Leafs are targeting Montour and Pesch

 

[JKG33]

Do people like you ever learn? I bet that makes them a cup favourite, right? Adding a near 10 million defenseman who has been awful his last two seasons. Unlike Klingberg you can't shoe that contract away when he becomes a regret acquisition ten games in the year.

Let me guess, people like you think Jones is terrible because a spreadsheet said so?

It sure as shit doesn't make them a cup contender, that task is damn near impossible as long as Matthews is the highest paid player. But I've resigned myself to the fact that he's not going anywhere now.

The teams biggest glaring weakness is a top pairing RD. Those don't grow on trees. If Marner and Tavares are gone by July 2025 that allows the cap to be relocated to defence. McCabe-Jones and Rielly-x would be the most respectable top 4 they've had in this era.

 

[TLEH]

Said on Kyper tonight Leafs are targeting Montour and Pesch

If Kypreos said it, its definitely not happening.

 

[MCR74]

Why?

 

[Boomstick]

I'm ecstatic that the Leafs have failed again. Year after year. It's awesome. So comical.
But the one thing I dislike is that now we'll have to listen to "The Leafs are in on everyone in the whole damn league"
Gets old fast.

 

[seanlinden]

You guys are running him out of town, asking him to waive a NMC and you think you will somehow get a positive return? Everyone in the league will know he HAS to be dealt, that is not playing from a position of strength....

Absolutely. He's a premier player in this league who turned 27 years old yesterday. The opportunity to acquire players like him does not happen very often. If you're a team that Marner is ok with going to, and can work the extension into your cap, there's probably very few assets that it doesn't make sense to move.... especially given that you can get him retained at 50% for this year.

 

[seanlinden]

I think Toronto and ownership is fine with keeping Marner, I don't think they are in a position where he has to be dealt. The only scenario I see where he HAS to be dealt is if he tells management he doesn't plan on resigning with them no matter what.

The biggest issue plaguing Toronto is lack of space to make the team better, with Tavares coming off the books after next season, they won't have that issue anymore. I think the smarter move for Toronto would be extending Marner and waiting the extra year on a declining John Tavares to come off the books to fix that issue.

He's under performed in the playoffs, but I don't think he's in the Phil Kessel terriority were he just had to be off Toronto roster no matter what the return was.

Ultimately, I think (or at least hope) the Leafs realize that they cannot expect to win with Matthews at $13.25m, Nylander at $11.5m, and Marner at $11.5m; at least not for a while until the cap jumps apreciably.

So, you've basically gotta have a frank discussion with Marner -- in that if he wants to remain a Leaf, he's going to have to swallow his pride and do something that neither Matthews nor Nylander did, and take a pretty substantial discount... which based on his negotiation history, seems unlikely.

It's not a matter of somebody saying "I dont want to sign" -- it's a matter of them coming to the conclusion that there isn't going to be a contract that both sides are happy with -- so get Mitch moved to his next destination rather than play lame duck for a year.

 

[eojsmada]

Could they target Jones? Yes. Should they? No. They need more than one defenseman at that cap hit.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Rielly Jones has been a defense pair I've wanted for a long time but I don't know how you do it.

I don't feel like Jones is worth Marner and honestly I don't know why Marner would waive to go to Chicago because aside from Murphy, Jones and Bedard they got nothing, and Murphy and Jones could both be gone before next season ends.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Will Marner waive for half the teams with the cap space to take him on? I can’t see his dad agreeing to Mitchie leaving his side like that. The Leafs would have to take a cap hit back in return that’s going to be ugly in terms of term. Some $6m guy who has term unless they’re willing to stomach a $3m retention.

So worst case they wait a season. My post is still the same, they have 1 year of tight cap space. They are in the top of the league for flexibility

 

[HawksDub89]

He’s over paid by like 1.5-2 million, but he’s still a really good top 4 D. He’s not a 1D, but probably more a 2-3.

In a vacuum he makes sense for Toronto but for a multitude of reasons it probably won’t happen.

Fwiw I doubt he’d waive for Toronto. (So that stops the trade before it starts)

 

[waitin425]

Ultimately, I think (or at least hope) the Leafs realize that they cannot expect to win with Matthews at $13.25m, Nylander at $11.5m, and Marner at $11.5m; at least not for a while until the cap jumps apreciably.

So, you've basically gotta have a frank discussion with Marner -- in that if he wants to remain a Leaf, he's going to have to swallow his pride and do something that neither Matthews nor Nylander did, and take a pretty substantial discount... which based on his negotiation history, seems unlikely.

It's not a matter of somebody saying "I dont want to sign" -- it's a matter of them coming to the conclusion that there isn't going to be a contract that both sides are happy with -- so get Mitch moved to his next destination rather than play lame duck for a year.

The thing is, is there should be no team that gives Mitch what he wants. He is not worth a penny over 8.

 

[seanlinden]

The thing is, is there should be no team that gives Mitch what he wants. He is not worth a penny over 8.

While I disagree with you on the number, that is the crux of the problem.

No good team should have given Auston Matthews that contract. No good team should have given William Nylander thtat contract. The Leafs continue to botch negotiations with these guys, setting new high-water marks every time.

 

[GoBoltz56]

The leafs adding another proven winner. This checks out.

 

[Leafs87]

His career really went down the drain after joining Chicago. Is this due to a weak team or?

 

[Mr Positive]

The perfect Dman on a sweet deal isn't available

Jones is a really smart addition. Give him a good surrounding cast and he will elevate

I am skeptical that he would be for sale at all though. The Hawks will try to load up, not tear down

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

This deal would make no sense.

The Leafs already have their Seth Jones in Morgan Rielly and it keeps them in a cap-bind for longer.

 

[Mr Positive]

This deal would make no sense.

The Leafs already have their Seth Jones in Morgan Rielly and it keeps them in a cap-bind for longer.

It makes sense if they are shipping out Marner (likely in a separate deal). Plus of course Tavares is only 1 year left.

As for already having Reilly, Reilly is good. I see no issue with having two of him

 

[Schennanigans]

I’m all for it if it gets Marner out of here.

 

[DitchMarner]

I'm not sure he's the right guy to target. He kind of seems like a richer man's Morgan Rielly.

I know he was considered one of the best d-men around a few years ago, but he's fallen off since then.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

It makes sense if they are shipping out Marner (likely in a separate deal). Plus of course Tavares is only 1 year left.

As for already having Reilly, Reilly is good. I see no issue with having two of him

Neither player improves the PP1.

Jones would become a 10M luxury, just like Marner, except for many more years.

The Leafs don't need to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. They need a PPQB, among other things.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Jones would probably thrive on the leafs but that being said, we assume marner is going the other way?

 

[Mr Positive]

Neither player improves the PP1.

Jones would become a 10M luxury, just like Marner, except for many more years.

The Leafs don't need to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. They need a PPQB, among other things.

To me the main issue they have is that talent is stilted towards the forward group. If Jones can be an impact Dman that is a huge deal. The PP issue is overblown. It's gone up and down. The balance of talent is the one common element than spans all the years.

 

[hamzarocks]

This year that would be ~5 mil total savings, after Nylander and Matthews extensions it’s 9. They had a 5 million dollar Brodie sitting on the bench in the playoffs, Bert at 5.5 putting up 3.5 mil third line numbers, and one of the most expensive healthy bottom-6s among playoff teams.

It’s not like there’s no money to spend on middle class pieces, they just continuously spend middle class money on guys that don’t deliver results. You could make the core 5 mil each, we’d just have more expensive disappointments elsewhere in the lineup. The cheap filler pieces like Benoit, McMann, Holmberg etc outperformed most of the guys making money. Those cap hits being too high isn’t the reason we have Bertuzzi + Brodie instead of Nichushkin + Towes, the latter two are a cheaper combo this year.

Bertuzzi had 4 pts in 7 games

If that is 3.5M value then

Tavares 2 in 7 --> 1.75M value
Marner 3 in 7 --> 2.625M value
Matthews 4 in 5 --> 4.9M value
Nylander 3 in 4 --> 4.6M value

Top 4 core guys were worth 13.8M when making ~40.5M. Core 4 was around 27M overpaid

Brodie, Bert, Domi, Lub, Edmunson, Benoit, samsonov, Reeves combined maybe 10-15M overpaid?

By your own flawed logic, the top 4 core beign f***ing shit cost the middle group of Bertuzzi, Domi, Lub a chance at the cup.

The core 4 lost again. The depth outplayed them, played steong defensive hockey and chipped in offensively when they could.

Big 4 went MIA for an 8th series out of 9

 

[canuckslover10]

Would need to see a 1.5-2 million dollar retention.