Corey Pronman Mid Season ranking

[FlyguyOX]

Draft strength is determined by people who only really pay attention to the top of the draft, thinking that draft slot is all that matters. Those people just brush aside the fact that Kucherov was a late 2nd rounder, Point, Sorokin, Guentzel, Rust were 3rd rounders, Shesterkin was a 4th rounder, Stone was a 6th rounder. It's lazy to only measure draft strength simply based on the top. You can have a non elite top of the draft, but very solid depth after the top, stretching several rounds into said draft


2011 is a prime example of having a meh to solid top of the draft but several studs found outside of the top 10.

Exceptions don't make the norm. And you are stating the strength of a draft in hindsight when you point out guys like that. If they were correctly evaluated in their draft year they... would've gone in the top half of the 1st...

It's ok to state the strength of a draft can only be found in hindsight. But if you're looking at draft year determination of strength then it has to be valued differently.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kleber was the worst player in the summer on an average US Hlinka team that will have many players go undrafted.

He’s not in any way good. He can actively hurt his team too with how slow he is, how many mistakes he makes with the puck, and that he’s weak defensively. He’s big. That’s it.

 

[Chainshot]

Pronman has had an interesting progression in his rankings from years ago when he seemed to heavily favor flashier offensive minded and often small forwards to a higher regard for size and physical play.

 

[95snipes]

Kleber was the worst player in the summer on an average US Hlinka team that will have many players go undrafted.

He’s not in any way good. He can actively hurt his team too with how slow he is, how many mistakes he makes with the puck, and that he’s weak defensively. He’s big. That’s it.

I'm 100% with you on this one. Verbatim. Maybe if you're trying to build the 2012 LA Kings you could hide him as a 6th defenseman, but that's really the only appeal I see.

Another that stands out is Cole Hutson at 20. If his last name wasn't Hutson, I highly doubt he's being ranked that high. He's been fairly meh this year. It seems like people are trying to right their mistakes with Lane with Cole. I think that's backwards and Lane is the better prospect. Lane has much better feet and that 'pop' that Cole doesn't really have in his game.

I also agree with your Felicio take I saw in another thread. I'm not a fan either.

I think we're flipped on our views of Emery/Skahan though.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Pronman has had an interesting progression in his rankings from years ago when he seemed to heavily favor flashier offensive minded and often small forwards to a higher regard for size and physical play.

His preference is still the former, but once we got inside NHL contacts his lists became more reflective of what hockey men want in their prospects.

I also still think he will never get passed Drouin.

 

[rt]

Yakemchuk over Demidov and Helenius is.....a choice. I'm surprised but happy he has Catton at 6.

I like Yakemchuk a lot too.

Kleber was the worst player in the summer on an average US Hlinka team that will have many players go undrafted.

He’s not in any way good. He can actively hurt his team too with how slow he is, how many mistakes he makes with the puck, and that he’s weak defensively. He’s big. That’s it.

When I read praise for this player, it’s generally about how much he’s improved. Have you watched him more recently and have you seen a big improvement?

 

[TLEH]

Yakemchuk is an example of a late birthday kid that the supposed CHL, NCAA agreement would really help. I personally would prefer him to play his D+1 in the NCAA if I was teams.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When I read praise for this player, it’s generally about how much he’s improved. Have you watched him more recently and have you seen a big improvement?

Not this season. Going to try to soon. I don’t like watching USHL at the beginning of the season. I like trying to binge it later in the season and pick and choose from varying times in the season what games to watch when I have basically all of them available.

I have a hard time believing what I saw last season and August has changed that much since, but time will tell.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I like the Yakemchuk ranking. Bold but I like his game alot.

He has the most attributes of all these Dmen imo. High end offense (near top of class), good defense, big & physical, skates well, extremely competitive.

 

[TLEH]

I like the Yakemchuk ranking. Bold but I like his game alot.

He has the most attributes of all these Dmen imo. High end offense (near top of class), good defense, big & physical, skates well, extremely competitive.

Wish he skated a little bit better. But the puck skills and poise make up for it.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

It's a fine perspective, but most drafts look closer to the same after the first round, and there's a huge amount of noise. Most good draft evaluations I've seen are looking at the depth and success of the talent in the first round, and sometimes into the second, as compared to the "average" draft. Beyond that, of course there are always amazing players drafted late, but that is impossible to evaluate in the year and has less bearing on the overall class evaluation. Not that it matters much.

It does matter though.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Exceptions don't make the norm. And you are stating the strength of a draft in hindsight when you point out guys like that. If they were correctly evaluated in their draft year they... would've gone in the top half of the 1st...

It's ok to state the strength of a draft can only be found in hindsight. But if you're looking at draft year determination of strength then it has to be valued differently.

Of the guys I mentioned, only Rust and Stone had meh DY production. Everyone else produced like a 1st/2nd round talent.

 

[coooldude]

It does matter though.

Does it? Specifically, does it matter what we keyboard jockeys think about evaluating draft classes in retrospect?

If you are arguing that it matters that NHL front offices have an assessment of how deep a draft class is, at the time it is being drafted, sure, that matters. But that's not really what we were talking about.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Does it? Specifically, does it matter what we keyboard jockeys think about evaluating draft classes in retrospect?

If you are arguing that it matters that NHL front offices have an assessment of how deep a draft class is, at the time it is being drafted, sure, that matters. But that's not really what we were talking about.

The 2nd and 3rd rounds are extremely important. Those help you win Cups. The 1st round is the sexiest because of the number 1 and the ease of following fewer DY players, but hitting on players later is super important.

 

[coooldude]

The 2nd and 3rd rounds are extremely important. Those help you win Cups. The 1st round is the sexiest because of the number 1 and the ease of following fewer DY players, but hitting on players later is super important.

... Yes, the draft is important... when I said "Not that it matters much" I was saying "it doesn't matter much what we think on HFboards about whether a draft is deep or not." I was not saying that the draft doesn't matter after round 1.

 

[Czechboy]

Jiricek at 12.. any other Czechs?

 

[Castle8130]

Parekh 10, Helenius 11, Buium 12, jiricek 13, Connelly 14, iginla 15, MBN 16.

Other notables, elick 18, Hutson 20, Greentree 31 (foot speed), Emery 32, Ritchie 33.

Did Hemming and Cherynshov still make the top 20? Those are the only 2 I see as missing from the most consensus top 20 (outside of Greentree)

 

[Intangir]

Did Hemming and Cherynshov still make the top 20? Those are the only 2 I see as missing from the most consensus top 20 (outside of Greentree)

Hemming did not make the top 36 list, Chernyshov was 17th on the list.

 

[PatrickMcC]

Hemming did not make the top 36 list, Chernyshov was 17th on the list.

I don’t think he has a good enough grasp on Hemming yet. Doesn’t get a lot of minutes so he’s waiting for more international tournaments like the upcoming u18s. From what he’s seen earlier, doesn’t love the compete

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Not saying you're wrong especially on pure skill, but the discussion in the Wheeler thread was that Pronman tends to try to capture what NHL scouts are telling him the order is. So Demidov, like Michkov, may slide to 6-8 even if he's 2 (or some bulls say 1) for pure skill and upside.

Oh, I don’t doubt that. I’m not judging his rankings necessarily but merely stating Demidov is firmly at #2 for me. I’ll never claim to be adept at scouting, but I can pretty confidently say there aren’t that many players more valuable than Demidov in this draft regardless of Russian factor. I don’t really think it’s that close either unless your team really needs defense.