Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by BinCookin, Apr 11, 2018.
Maybe put all our contract discussions here.
mantha has said that he underachieved during the season. This feels a bit strange. he knows that he still has to play better, even seemingly prefers a bridge deal - yet still is lazy AF during some games it seems as if he can't get out of his own way
Mantha is best when he's angry. When he's emotionally invested in a game, watch out. His problem is being invested every game. I trust that with some maturity he will learn to bring it every night and become a good first line winger. If not he'll be Franzen (which isn't bad but not what we had hoped when we drafted him).
Franzen was always a ton better defensively than his detractors seem to remember. He could disappear on offense, but he was a rock solid defensive player. A guy coaches anywhere would trust, heck he was a shutdown defensive center before breaking out into a hulking goal scoring winger.
Most of Franzen bashing is basically why wasn't he a top 20 player in the league if he did the things people asked from him. He did them for stretches but ultimately if he did them all the time he would have been the best player in the league. All this time later I am not sure what people really thought the Mule should be. He was a darn good 200 foot hockey player that filled the net a decent amount, played with some physicality and had some massive playoff runs. Unfortunately his career was shortened by injuries. But pretty confused when people don't want another Franzen, uh the guy was really good at hockey.
I do think Mantha could be even better, but I am terribly confused by the way people run Franzen and Osgood in terms of former Wings. I just don't get it at all.
i feel the same - i always thought franzen was extremely underrated und had tons of skill. just watch his ppg stats during his prime years. If mantha becomes as good as franzen minus the injuries, he would be able to hit 65-70 points. not sure if mantha has that in him
What i like about manthas attitude is that he really reflects his season pretty well...not the usual "i think i played good" crap, he knows his weaknesses. When he learns to bring it 70% of the time instead of 50%, we have ourselves a nice skilled 1st line winger
Bridge deals for everyone but Larkin.
My ideal scenario:
AA - 2 years
Mantha - 3-5 years
Larkin - 6-8 years
I like that Mantha wants to prove himself some more. Because I think the guy can be a 35-35 winger. Which would be sick.
I also hope Holland trades AA for a youngish top four defenseman.
I didn't mean for my post to come off as bashing Franzen, just comparing the fact they're both offensively inconsistent.
I'm with you on Larkin. It sounds like he is all but decided that he wants to be with the team long term, and if we use a conservative projection, he probably doesn't have a lot of room left to grow as a player. Signing him to 8 years at "market value" for his current level is probably safe. If he does grow more than what was anticipated, you have him locked into a team friendly deal with term and eat up probably his best years where he's paid less than he's worth. That's a win.
I think term is probably a little long for Mantha. He has said he wants a bridge deal, a true "prove myself" contract. If that's what he wants, I would go no higher than 3 years. If I did my research correct based on when Mantha broke into the NHL, his RFA status is going to expire when he is 27. He's currently 23. My target would be to have his contract expire in 3 years, when he would be 26. That should give the Wings the benefit of still having his RFA rights; that could be huge to keep him from being able to wander around and see what others have to offer, or potentially use him as a trade chip if he/the team decides he isn't in the long-term plans.
I'm just about done with the Athanasiou era. His numbers are really good when he's being given the chance to play minutes with the best players on the team, but when he's removed from their side, his numbers seem to drop while theirs continue to grow. I don't know of a way to verify this with actual data, but I don't think it's a coincidence. Obviously this has something to do with linemates, but the point is, Larkin seemed to put up numbers regardless of who was playing on his wing and Athanasiou seemed to put up his best numbers mainly with Larkin as his center. I would sign him to a short bridge deal contingent on the Wings being able to move Nyquist at the draft. If Gus is still around, I can't see AA getting the opportunity to play with the players he needs to play with to be effective.
I'd rather try to package AA for a defenseman (or to move up in the draft), but I'd be fine with that range for Larkin, and ok with 3 years on Mantha.
I'd trade AA if he doesn't play ball in negotiations or if there's a really attractive trade out there. If he accepts a 2-year deal at a fair number I'd do it. Still think he could be a guy that just suddenly "gets it" and explodes.
I think he could be a really good player if he suddenly "got it", but I don't see him meshing well enough with the current staff to undergo that epiphany while in a Wings jersey. Mantha, ok, but it seems like there's just too much friction between AA and the coaches for that aha moment to occur.
Maybe AA would respond better to a similar message, if it was coming from a coach with enough rings to get his attention, I dunno. And I don't say that to knock Blashill; I just honestly don't know what might get through to a player who has good talent, but appears to have a strained dynamic with this staff.
Mantha at 3 years with an AAV of ~$2.5-3M would be a really nice bridge IMO. Gives him some incentive to still swing for a big 5+ year deal when the 3 year deal expires and gives him time to mature.
Larkin should get the moon because Holland has already opened up the vault for guys like Abdelkader, Dekeyser, etc. I know different situations with positions, ages, UFA vs RFA etc. but it is just the principal of not nickel and dime'ing your only core piece for now and future.
Like others, AA can be packaged with the Vegas 1st or one of the early 2nds for a move up in the draft or a valuable piece from another organization. He has warts and I think he can be a solid NHLer but I think he's burned his bridge here.
What type of deal do Bert and Frk get?
Short, 2-3 years for Bertuzzi and 1-2 years for Frk. 1.0-1.5M ballpark.
Bert should get a 1-2 year lowish AAV contract, he was good in the top 6 to finish the season, but, he still hasn't shown he can maintain it long term, or when other teams start planning for him game to game.
Same price for both? Basically AA's contract value at longer term for Bert and more or less the same for Frk
I can't see Frk getting a million.
I imagine Bert getting 1.1-1.25M
I think Frk gets 925K
I agree on giving Mantha a "prove yourself" bridge deal. Larkin can be locked down long term. He is the present and future of this team bar none. Give AA a similar deal to Mantha to prove he is worth the cash, or deal him for a defender.
Bert gets a million tops. Frk I don't really see getting a ton of money. He's pretty replaceable.