Value of: Colorado Players (Rantanen, Colton, etc.)

[Mac Attack]

Nah, similar to what you paid to get him, with a slight add. We're not trading that pick.

Had Buffalo fans interested in the same trade but with 11th overall, but I get why you wouldn't want to move the pick

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I'd just keep Rantanen.

 

[BB88]

I highly doubt they’re available, but it’s worth looking at imo. We’re essentially a year away from having two players making $12m. While that’s only a $3m increase on Mikko it does mean reduced depth yet again. If the right deal comes up I could definitely see them considering adding depth and prospects and using the prospects to help make bigger moves.

Where are they going to land someone who means as much to their success as Rantanen?

They are damm idiots if they try to retool the depth by trading their superstar in his mid prime

 

[Shane Diesel]

They're very likely going to get Landy back

Has his situation changed? The last update I saw was from April saying he's "not close" to returning.

Considering he hasn't played a second of competitive hockey in two years and underwent a procedure that's novel in the NHL I don't understand where the optimism is coming from unless his overall prognosis has improved.

 

[BB88]

Has his situation changed? The last update I saw was from April saying he's "not close" to returning.

Considering he hasn't played a second of competitive hockey in two years and underwent a procedure that's novel in the NHL I don't understand where the optimism is coming from unless his overall prognosis has improved.

Landy will be 32y next season while having missed 2 seasons in a row

Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody should put up high expectations on Landy anymore and his return should not raise the chances of Rantanen getting traded.
Let him rather be a positive surprise than expect prime Landy to come back

 

[Perratrooper]

Since we're discussing potential trades with the Ducks... the Ducks cannot conceivably pay and play all of Carlsson, McTavish, Zegras, Gauthier, and Terry. This is just their young forward group. They have a young goalie and young stud defensemen who will need raises as well, alongside whoever ends up being their 3rd overall pick this year.

• Terry $7M until 29-30
• Zegras $5.75 until 26-27, when he will need a raise
• McTavish on ELC this year, needs his first big contract in 25-26
• Dostal on ELC this year, needs his first big contract in 25-26
• Carlsson on ELC, first big contract in 26-27
• Gauthier on ELC, first big contract in 26-27
• Zellweger on ELC, first big contract in 26-27
• Mintyukov on ELC, first big contract in 26-27

Terry, Carlsson, Gauthier, Zellweger, and Mintyukov seem to be Verbeek's guys. More questions around McTavish and Zegras.

Verbeek said he wants to improve and make a push for the playoffs in 24-25. He has said he's looking for a RW who can score and he he likes big bodies. He signed Killorn last year ($6.25 until 27-28) so we know he's not afraid of older vets with championship experience. You need a solid mix of vets and younger guys.

Signing and extending Rantanen would not really help with their future salary situation, but it would address their need at RW and desire to improve next season. They have a logjam of left-shot centre/LW prospects and young players.

I think McTavish would be a better fit for the Avs than Zegras in terms of play style. Avs need guys who will get in dirty areas and score greasy goals, they have enough top 6 playmakers, especially if they re-sign Drouin. Not that McTavish doesn't have the potential to be a great playmaker, because he does, but he does both pretty well. Also both McTavish and MacKinnon are very intense and kinda unhinged so watching the two of them on the same team would be very entertaining lol.

Avs are likely trying to sign Mittlestadt to be their 2C, and McTavish has always played centre, so that's not perfect, but I think McTavish has more potential on the wing than Zegras does. From what I've seen, Zegras plays much better at centre than he does on the wing. McTavish at 21 is already decent at faceoffs with 51.72% this season, compared to Mack's 46.19%, and Mittlestadt's 47.06%. Avs really need guys who can win faceoffs... Rantanen was at 53.82% but he took way less faceoffs than any of those three.

McTavish needs a contract next year, and it won't be cheap, but it'll be cheaper than Rantanen's and they will have clarity on the Landeskog & Nichushkin situations by then.

There would obviously be a lot more involved in a trade like this than just "Rantanen for McTavish" (mostly from Colorado's side, which isn't the end of the world considering they have very little cap space and need to move off some contracts anyway) and trades like this very rarely happen (Rantanen would also need to agree to go to Anaheim if they're on his no-trade list), but it's an interesting thought.

I really appreciate the detailed and thought out post, regarding if the fit makes sense. Where I disagree with you (unless I am misinterpreting the “mostly from Colorado’s side” is on your assessment of McTavish being worth more than Rantanen. I just don’t think I understand the rationale there.

In terms of trades like this a few come to mind. We have Meier, Stone and Eichel in recent years, however I think relative to their peers and the situation present Rantanen is worth the most (remember Eichel had a pending back surgery that Buffalo didn’t want). Looking back a bit further, the Jeff Carter trade seems to jump out as bigger trade where a large haul was paid. Now obviously Carter was more of a true center, however I would again argue that Rantanen holds more value. The trade was Vorachek (7th overall 4 years prior), a first (8th overall) and a third round pick. Carter wasn’t coming off as strong of a season and I would argue was an inferior player, but was a true center. He was relatively close in age (26?) to Rantanen as well.

Where are they going to land someone who means as much to their success as Rantanen?

They are damm idiots if they try to retool the depth by trading their superstar in his mid prime

They won’t land one individual player that means as much to the success of the team, however they may land enough parts that can end up being a greater overall contributor to team success while getting younger. It’s not a situation where we are just giving him away, if all offers on the table are weak you simply just keep him.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Nah, similar to what you paid to get him, with a slight add. We're not trading that pick.

I’d like to see devils trade down some spots with their pick with a depth dman attached to move down, and then try to flip that pick as well for Colton maybe. Any team picking 11-20 I would be more comfortable flipping the pick straight up for Colton.

 

[blankall]

IMHO if the Avs trade with the Ducks centered around Rantanen, the 3rd Overall is going. It's just natural, there's no attachment to who that player is and they'll give the Avs 3 ELC years when they play. At 3rd you could possibly stretch the player into playing year one or at worst give them one dev year, so not a long wait.

From there you could debate the player(s) rounding out the offer. But I doubt it would be Terry, Avs would probably want to keep the replacements around 4-4.5mil coming back. Despite what the other poster said, they need to keep cap available for at least one of Landy or Nuke.

Naw. I still don't see the Ducks giving up the 3rd overall. They cap control from a 3rd overall is too valuable and Rantanen doesn't fit the timeline of their rebuild.

MacKinnon is turning 29. The Avs need compete now. How does trading a 100 point and 40 goal player for a draft pick accomplish that. When you have a player like MacKinnon, you don't manage assets, you compete until they're done and deal with the fallout after.

If Rantanen is traded it's in a hockey trade for a player or player the team thinks makes the team better now, not a draft pick that might contribute in a few years.

 

[Perratrooper]

Naw. I still don't see the Ducks giving up the 3rd overall. They cap control from a 3rd overall is too valuable and Rantanen doesn't fit the timeline of their rebuild.

MacKinnon is turning 29. The Avs need compete now. How does trading a 100 point and 40 goal player for a draft pick accomplish that. When you have a player like MacKinnon, you don't manage assets, you compete until they're done and deal with the fallout after.

If Rantanen is traded it's in a hockey trade for a player or player the team thinks makes the team better now, not a draft pick that might contribute in a few years.

I agree that 3rd overall shouldn’t be the focal point, however as another Ducks fan agreed to, it’s something along the lines of McT/Zegras+3rd+Lacombe I think the conversation gets started for sure. Say Colorado accepts and re-sign Drouin they could conceivably run lines of:

Lehk-MacK-Drouin
UFA/trade-Mitts-UFA/trade
Landeskog-McT-LOC
Wood-Colton-Kovalnenko
Scratch: Wagner

Toews-Makar
Girard-Manson
Lacombe-Malinski


Colorado would have $12.9m in cap space. If they move Colton that shoots up to $16.9m. Say the third overall is one of Demidov or Lindstrom and they can play two a third line level. The cap hit would be minimal and we would yet again improve our depth. If Nuke comes back healthy (huge if) then we have another top 6 winger and one we can very much afford.

 

[blankall]

I agree that 3rd overall shouldn’t be the focal point, however as another Ducks fan agreed to, it’s something along the lines of McT/Zegras+3rd+Lacombe I think the conversation gets started for sure. Say Colorado accepts and re-sign Drouin they could conceivably run lines of:

Lehk-MacK-Drouin
UFA/trade-Mitts-UFA/trade
Landeskog-McT-LOC
Wood-Colton-Kovalnenko
Scratch: Wagner

Toews-Makar
Girard-Manson
Lacombe-Malinski


Colorado would have $12.9m in cap space. If they move Colton that shoots up to $16.9m. Say the third overall is one of Demidov or Lindstrom and they can play two a third line level. The cap hit would be minimal and we would yet again improve our depth. If Nuke comes back healthy (huge if) then we have another top 6 winger and one we can very much afford.

Any ducks fan who agreed to that is out of their mind. You're not getting McTavish and the 3rd overall. That would be an insane trade for a rebuilding team to make.

 

[BB88]

I really appreciate the detailed and thought out post, regarding if the fit makes sense. Where I disagree with you (unless I am misinterpreting the “mostly from Colorado’s side” is on your assessment of McTavish being worth more than Rantanen. I just don’t think I understand the rationale there.

In terms of trades like this a few come to mind. We have Meier, Stone and Eichel in recent years, however I think relative to their peers and the situation present Rantanen is worth the most (remember Eichel had a pending back surgery that Buffalo didn’t want). Looking back a bit further, the Jeff Carter trade seems to jump out as bigger trade where a large haul was paid. Now obviously Carter was more of a true center, however I would again argue that Rantanen holds more value. The trade was Vorachek (7th overall 4 years prior), a first (8th overall) and a third round pick. Carter wasn’t coming off as strong of a season and I would argue was an inferior player, but was a true center. He was relatively close in age (26?) to Rantanen as well.



They won’t land one individual player that means as much to the success of the team, however they may land enough parts that can end up being a greater overall contributor to team success while getting younger. It’s not a situation where we are just giving him away, if all offers on the table are weak you simply just keep him.

& again since when do you trade 27y superstars for quantity?

That’s just asking to get fired and absolutely stupid way to try to retool

With Mackinnons game your window is 4-5 years, Rantanen fits that timeline perfectly

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I agree that 3rd overall shouldn’t be the focal point, however as another Ducks fan agreed to, it’s something along the lines of McT/Zegras+3rd+Lacombe I think the conversation gets started for sure. Say Colorado accepts and re-sign Drouin they could conceivably run lines of:

Lehk-MacK-Drouin
UFA/trade-Mitts-UFA/trade
Landeskog-McT-LOC
Wood-Colton-Kovalnenko
Scratch: Wagner

Toews-Makar
Girard-Manson
Lacombe-Malinski


Colorado would have $12.9m in cap space. If they move Colton that shoots up to $16.9m. Say the third overall is one of Demidov or Lindstrom and they can play two a third line level. The cap hit would be minimal and we would yet again improve our depth. If Nuke comes back healthy (huge if) then we have another top 6 winger and one we can very much afford.

I’m pretty sure that one Ducks fan was the extreme minority here as I haven’t seen any other fellow Ducks fans agreeing to such a trade. I seriously doubt that much would be on the table.

 

[Smitty426]

I’d like to see devils trade down some spots with their pick with a depth dman attached to move down, and then try to flip that pick as well for Colton maybe. Any team picking 11-20 I would be more comfortable flipping the pick straight up for Colton.

is that best use of the asset though? If they draft Nygard he's not too far off from playing. I'd try and get McNabb for the D as you suggest and moving a combo if necessary of picks/prospects for Ross

 

[Perratrooper]

I’m pretty sure that one Ducks fan was the extreme minority here as I haven’t seen any other fellow Ducks fans agreeing to such a trade. I seriously doubt that much would be on the table.

So what would the consensus value be? Ducks wouldn’t be the only team potentially interested.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

is that best use of the asset though? If they draft Nygard he's not too far off from playing. I'd try and get McNabb for the D as you suggest and moving a combo if necessary of picks/prospects for Ross

I don’t think it’s the best possible use, hitting on the pick would definitely be the best but that could take 3-4 years to know if it’s even possible and we got 3 years left of a sweet heart hischier contract plus Luke and Nemec making league minimum for only a couple more seasons. It’s a weird spot to be in while also picking 10th in the draft. It’s like having a $100 bill and needing to make a few smaller purchases but nobody will make change so you have to hope it just works out. Like if they could get Mcnabb and 19th overall for 10, and then flip 19 for Colton that’s decent value despite the individual pieces not being worth 10 spot at all. But it could turn out to sting twice if those picks turned into something.

 

[ameselare]

I really appreciate the detailed and thought out post, regarding if the fit makes sense. Where I disagree with you (unless I am misinterpreting the “mostly from Colorado’s side” is on your assessment of McTavish being worth more than Rantanen. I just don’t think I understand the rationale there.

In terms of trades like this a few come to mind. We have Meier, Stone and Eichel in recent years, however I think relative to their peers and the situation present Rantanen is worth the most (remember Eichel had a pending back surgery that Buffalo didn’t want). Looking back a bit further, the Jeff Carter trade seems to jump out as bigger trade where a large haul was paid. Now obviously Carter was more of a true center, however I would again argue that Rantanen holds more value. The trade was Vorachek (7th overall 4 years prior), a first (8th overall) and a third round pick. Carter wasn’t coming off as strong of a season and I would argue was an inferior player, but was a true center. He was relatively close in age (26?) to Rantanen as well.

Yeah that's totally fair. I guess I was thinking Colorado would need to give a bit more because they desperately need cap space, and Anaheim knows that. McTavish is going to be a great player for a long time (in my opinion) and is still very young, although Rantanen is obviously much more established and proven than he is. But you're right that precedent would show that Anaheim would be the team giving more.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

So what would the consensus value be? Ducks wouldn’t be the only team potentially interested.

Personally, I don’t think Rantanen would be a smart player to target for the Ducks at this point in their rebuild. His value would exceed what would make sense for a rebuilding team to give up. If they were already in contention and just needed to get over the hump, it would make a lot more sense. Giving up two top 3 picks though and then adding even more on top of it, just defeats what they’ve been building for the past few years. There are other teams who make much more sense to grab Rantanen.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

If the Avs are determined to waste the rest of Mackinnons prime then trading Rantanen makes sense

That top6 would be absolutely brutal without him

MacGinnon was on a 6 million dollar contract and they made it out of the second round exactly once.

They already wasted his prime.

 

[ameselare]

Personally, I don’t think Rantanen would be a smart player to target for the Ducks at this point in their rebuild. His value would exceed what would make sense for a rebuilding team to give up. If they were already in contention and just needed to get over the hump, it would make a lot more sense. Giving up two top 3 picks though and then adding even more on top of it, just defeats what they’ve been building for the past few years. There are other teams who make much more sense to grab Rantanen.

Based on what I've read from Verbeek, he wants the team to get more competitive and push for the playoffs. They have so many high end prospects, there's really no need to continue basement dwelling - the young core needs to learn how to play winning hockey and play meaningful games. But I think you're right that a move like trading for Rantanen feels a few years too soon as their top guys are still very young and still learning the pro game.

 

[ameselare]

So what would the consensus value be? Ducks wouldn’t be the only team potentially interested.

I would think a lot of teams would be interested. Who has the cap space to fit a player him, and who has pieces the Avs would want/need? They need someone who can replace him in the top-6, even if that player hasn't reached the heights Rantanen has yet.

Canucks should be looking for a high-end RW to play with Pettersson but they cannot afford Rantanen.

EDIT: Got my wires crossed on this one, ignore this. Canes are looking for right-shot centres, which Rantanen technically is.

Red Wings need to get over the hump.

Wild could be a fit, can they afford him though? Not sure why the Avs would trade in division.

Preds are looking for more offense. He would fit the age group. Again, not sure why the Avs would trade in division.

Isles definitely need offense.

Sens need to get over the hump, but they need their young players to stay healthy, and to improve defense and goaltending more than they need a scoring winger.

Lightning need some younger pieces to keep this thing going but their cupboards are pretty bare.

I don't want to mention Utah because half the league is apparently getting traded there this summer (usually players than fanbases want to get rid of).

Sabres could be a fit, they have plenty of young players and prospects but they can't keep them all, and they need to get over the hump. There's been plenty of business between these two teams in recent years, too.

I honestly don't think Nichushkin is ever playing for the Avs again. I would also be surprised if Landeskog can effectively play again, crazier things have happened, but it's been so long and he's over 30 now. Unless the Avs feel they need an aggressive retool and like the haul they can get, Rantanen isn't going anywhere considering the loss of these two players.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Canes are looking for right-shot centres, which Rantanen technically is.

Uhhh, he isn't a center or a right shot?

Whomever it would be, they'd be trading cost controlled youth for sure.

 

[ameselare]

Uhhh, he isn't a center or a right shot?

Whomever it would be, they'd be trading cost controlled youth for sure.

Thank you, my bad. Got my wires crossed a bit here with RW/right-shot. Edited my original post.

 

[Linds]

Any trade for Rants would have to be a hockey trade with roster players coming back with lower cap hits signed with term. Highly unlikely there are any contending teams that could make that sort of trade. Maybe the Canes if they don't sign Guentzel

 

[ameselare]

Any trade for Rants would have to be a hockey trade with roster players coming back with lower cap hits signed with term. Highly unlikely there are any contending teams that could make that sort of trade. Maybe the Canes if they don't sign Guentzel

Especially if Landeskog and Nuke both don't come back then Rantanen should not be going anywhere. Would be impossible to replace all three of them. As it is, if Landeskog and Nuke have both played their last games for the Avs, from my perspective you guys need a net front/greasy goals kinda guy to fill out the top 6. Ideal for the Avs for Drouin to improve upon what he accomplished this year. Him, Lehkonen, and Rantanen can move between the top two lines as needed. Need one more high end guy. But that's just my outsider's view of things.

 

[Perratrooper]

Personally, I don’t think Rantanen would be a smart player to target for the Ducks at this point in their rebuild. His value would exceed what would make sense for a rebuilding team to give up. If they were already in contention and just needed to get over the hump, it would make a lot more sense. Giving up two top 3 picks though and then adding even more on top of it, just defeats what they’ve been building for the past few years. There are other teams who make much more sense to grab Rantanen.

Hey I’d do 3rd+Zegras if it’s something Duck’s fans would consider if they prefer to keep McTavish. I would still want Lacombe and/or Clara in there as well (which I’m sure is the easiest point to get around).

I don’t disagree with other teams might make more sense, but that doesn’t mean the Ducks couldn’t be a strong contender.