Value of: Colorado Players (Rantanen, Colton, etc.)

[Shane Diesel]

Toews new contract kicks in July 1st, so there's 3.15m more for him, and Mitts will get more than 2.5m on his previous contract (RFA July 1st). So, ya... tons of cap space still I guess?

And Rantanen isn't up until next year so all of that is a moot point.

They also get another $7 million if Landeskog doesn't come back and at this point I don't know why anyone would be confident he will after two years of not playing. Maybe another $6.25 million if Nichuskin has his contract terminated.

There are several big pieces we don't know about, but yeah the team will be better shipping out a top five winger for a couple middle six forwards or a draft pick that'll most likely take three seasons to develop.

If you're trading Rantanen then they might as well start from scratch and get a haul for MacKinnon and Makar too. Blow it up and start from scratch.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

No. It's generally insane for a rebuilding team to trade those kind of assets for a player that'll be 28 at the start of the season. If a team has the 3rd overall, it generally means they are a ways away from competing. Adding a vet is typically not the answer.

McTavish and the 3rd overall for a vet is outrageously bad asset management.

McTavish has held his draft value. When was the last time any later was traded for two top 3 picks?

Agreed. As a Ducks fan, no way would I do that trade being offered. That’s a lot to give up from a rebuilding team for one piece who isn’t going to turn the team into a contender.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Agreed. As a Ducks fan, no way would I do that trade being offered. That’s a lot to give up from a rebuilding team for one piece who isn’t going to turn the team into a contender.

Agreed and he is one of the best wingers in the league. There is just no one player you guy a rebuild around. It’s a team game, not even McD can take a team to the promised land.

 

[ameselare]

Since we're discussing potential trades with the Ducks... the Ducks cannot conceivably pay and play all of Carlsson, McTavish, Zegras, Gauthier, and Terry. This is just their young forward group. They have a young goalie and young stud defensemen who will need raises as well, alongside whoever ends up being their 3rd overall pick this year.

• Terry $7M until 29-30
• Zegras $5.75 until 26-27, when he will need a raise
• McTavish on ELC this year, needs his first big contract in 25-26
• Dostal on ELC this year, needs his first big contract in 25-26
• Carlsson on ELC, first big contract in 26-27
• Gauthier on ELC, first big contract in 26-27
• Zellweger on ELC, first big contract in 26-27
• Mintyukov on ELC, first big contract in 26-27

Terry, Carlsson, Gauthier, Zellweger, and Mintyukov seem to be Verbeek's guys. More questions around McTavish and Zegras.

Verbeek said he wants to improve and make a push for the playoffs in 24-25. He has said he's looking for a RW who can score and he he likes big bodies. He signed Killorn last year ($6.25 until 27-28) so we know he's not afraid of older vets with championship experience. You need a solid mix of vets and younger guys.

Signing and extending Rantanen would not really help with their future salary situation, but it would address their need at RW and desire to improve next season. They have a logjam of left-shot centre/LW prospects and young players.

I think McTavish would be a better fit for the Avs than Zegras in terms of play style. Avs need guys who will get in dirty areas and score greasy goals, they have enough top 6 playmakers, especially if they re-sign Drouin. Not that McTavish doesn't have the potential to be a great playmaker, because he does, but he does both pretty well. Also both McTavish and MacKinnon are very intense and kinda unhinged so watching the two of them on the same team would be very entertaining lol.

Avs are likely trying to sign Mittlestadt to be their 2C, and McTavish has always played centre, so that's not perfect, but I think McTavish has more potential on the wing than Zegras does. From what I've seen, Zegras plays much better at centre than he does on the wing. McTavish at 21 is already decent at faceoffs with 51.72% this season, compared to Mack's 46.19%, and Mittlestadt's 47.06%. Avs really need guys who can win faceoffs... Rantanen was at 53.82% but he took way less faceoffs than any of those three.

McTavish needs a contract next year, and it won't be cheap, but it'll be cheaper than Rantanen's and they will have clarity on the Landeskog & Nichushkin situations by then.

There would obviously be a lot more involved in a trade like this than just "Rantanen for McTavish" (mostly from Colorado's side, which isn't the end of the world considering they have very little cap space and need to move off some contracts anyway) and trades like this very rarely happen (Rantanen would also need to agree to go to Anaheim if they're on his no-trade list), but it's an interesting thought.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

IMHO if the Avs trade with the Ducks centered around Rantanen, the 3rd Overall is going. It's just natural, there's no attachment to who that player is and they'll give the Avs 3 ELC years when they play. At 3rd you could possibly stretch the player into playing year one or at worst give them one dev year, so not a long wait.

From there you could debate the player(s) rounding out the offer. But I doubt it would be Terry, Avs would probably want to keep the replacements around 4-4.5mil coming back. Despite what the other poster said, they need to keep cap available for at least one of Landy or Nuke.

 

[Shane Diesel]

IMHO if the Avs trade with the Ducks centered around Rantanen, the 3rd Overall is going. It's just natural, there's no attachment to who that player is and they'll give the Avs 3 ELC years when they play. At 3rd you could possibly stretch the player into playing year one or at worst give them one dev year, so not a long wait.

From there you could debate the player(s) rounding out the offer. But I doubt it would be Terry, Avs would probably want to keep the replacements around 4-4.5mil coming back. Despite what the other poster said, they need to keep cap available for at least one of Landy or Nuke.

It's a massive assumption the third overall pick would come in and have an impact immediately. This does nothing to help the Avs in their current Cup window.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

It's a massive assumption the third overall pick would come in and have an impact immediately. This does nothing to help the Avs in their current Cup window.

The Avs putting all of their cap on MacK, Rants and Makar also doesn't help their current cup window.

I'm a huge Rantanen fan and supporter. But we saw the value he provided in the playoffs, aside from one huge goal he could have been replaced by two 50-60 point players and helped the team's depth challenges. And ideally younger hungrier players that wouldn't mind playing harder than Rantanen clearly wants to.

Every retool has gambling in it. My opinion is I'd rather gamble on one of the top 5 picks in this draft providing value in 2 years than watch Rantanen get a $12mil contract in a year. Especially if it's a proper 3-4 asset package that comes with that pick.

 

[Shane Diesel]

The Avs putting all of their cap on MacK, Rants and Makar also doesn't help their current cup window.

Really? That combo has literally won a Cup.

I'm a huge Rantanen fan and supporter. But we saw the value he provided in the playoffs, aside from one huge goal he could have been replaced by two 50-60 point players and helped the team's depth challenges. And ideally younger hungrier players that wouldn't mind playing harder than Rantanen clearly wants to.

Again, just crazy hyperbole and projection. Over the last five years the only winger to outscore Rantanen in the playoffs is Kucherov. But yeah, he's just a lazy mooch that is more a passenger than driver.

Every retool has gambling in it. My opinion is I'd rather gamble on one of the top 5 picks in this draft providing value in 2 years than watch Rantanen get a $12mil contract in a year. Especially if it's a proper 3-4 asset package that comes with that pick.

And the chances the top three pick comes in and replaces Rantanen production in the first year is low. The chances of replacing Rantanen's production after three years is also low. So you're willing to trade real talent for a lottery pick in the middle of a Cup contention window. All just to avoid paying a contract extension for at least three years.

Insane

 

[Ararana]

This is a ridiculous overreaction. Av's do not need to retool. Dallas is a great team. Doesn't mean Av's can't do it next year.

The Avs already performed half of a retool by trading Byram for their long term 2C. The other half IMO would have been trading Rantanen for a haul rather than giving a winger 13+ million a year.

But with Nuke axing himself off the roster, I'm not sure they let Rantanen go anymore. They should be doing everything they can to lock down Drouin and extend Rantenen. Not to mention moving heaven and earth to make the Nuke contract disappear.

Drouin - MacKinnon - Lehkonen
XXX - Mittlestadt - Rantanen

 

[GhostfaceWu]

This would have all the makings to blow up in Colorados face. Rantanen is 27 for christ sake.

 

[IceManCat]

Would have to imagine the Panthers would be all in on Rantanen if he were available

 

[Ararana]

Would have to imagine the Panthers would be all in on Rantanen if he were available

Still got blue balls from 2015?

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Would have to imagine the Panthers would be all in on Rantanen if he were available

I'm pretty sure a 2027 1st doesn't help the Avs anytime soon.

 

[SR]

What’s the ask in Manson? Utah has a litany of picks.

 

[ameselare]

The Avs already performed half of a retool by trading Byram for their long term 2C. The other half IMO would have been trading Rantanen for a haul rather than giving a winger 13+ million a year.

But with Nuke axing himself off the roster, I'm not sure they let Rantanen go anymore. They should be doing everything they can to lock down Drouin and extend Rantenen. Not to mention moving heaven and earth to make the Nuke contract disappear.

Drouin - MacKinnon - Lehkonen
XXX - Mittlestadt - Rantanen

You're probably right that the Nuke situation eliminates a Rantanen trade. They'll be able to make the Nuke contract disappear... anything is possible when this much money is involved.

 

[Adam da bomb]

What’s the ask in Manson? Utah has a litany of picks.

Good on you for staying loyal to your team even though they moved. I remember how much I hated the coyotes when jets 1.0 first left.

 

[Mac Attack]

The Avs already performed half of a retool by trading Byram for their long term 2C. The other half IMO would have been trading Rantanen for a haul rather than giving a winger 13+ million a year.

But with Nuke axing himself off the roster, I'm not sure they let Rantanen go anymore. They should be doing everything they can to lock down Drouin and extend Rantenen. Not to mention moving heaven and earth to make the Nuke contract disappear.

Drouin - MacKinnon - Lehkonen
XXX - Mittlestadt - Rantanen

When people refer to retooling they generally mean selling off a veteran or two so they can get younger even if slightly worse for a bit. The Mitts trade was just a straight up hockey trade, which I was very happy with.

 

[Ararana]

When people refer to retooling they generally mean selling off a veteran or two so they can get younger even if slightly worse for a bit. The Mitts trade was just a straight up hockey trade, which I was very happy with.

Hence the Rantanen trade.

 

[BB88]

If the Avs are determined to waste the rest of Mackinnons prime then trading Rantanen makes sense

That top6 would be absolutely brutal without him

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I really don't think any of these guys are going to end up available.


The Nichushkin situation pretty much gives the Avs a "Get out of jail free" card this summer.


They can bring back Drouin and Mittelstadt, and mostly just run it back with the Top 9F and Top 4D they had this year. Give some rookies an opportunity to earn a spot to start the year as depth pieces and then load up at the deadline again with bottom 6 guys.

 

[Smitty426]

Not sure everyone will agree on some of the op's post. 2C probably isn't a need with Mitts added. Defensive depth will be obliterated with G or Manson gone and would need replacements. And G was actually really good in the playoffs.

If there's interest in Rantanen and Colton, probably prioritize them this offseason. Free up the cap for Landy to return and infuse what's left of the cap space into the acquired players, trying to keep at least Trenin and adding some more defensive depth in free agency.

Colton for......?

 

[Perratrooper]

I really don't think any of these guys are going to end up available.


The Nichushkin situation pretty much gives the Avs a "Get out of jail free" card this summer.


They can bring back Drouin and Mittelstadt, and mostly just run it back with the Top 9F and Top 4D they had this year. Give some rookies an opportunity to earn a spot to start the year as depth pieces and then load up at the deadline again with bottom 6 guys.

I highly doubt they’re available, but it’s worth looking at imo. We’re essentially a year away from having two players making $12m. While that’s only a $3m increase on Mikko it does mean reduced depth yet again. If the right deal comes up I could definitely see them considering adding depth and prospects and using the prospects to help make bigger moves.

 

[Mac Attack]

Colton for......?

Swap of first rounders.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I highly doubt they’re available, but it’s worth looking at imo. We’re essentially a year away from having two players making $12m. While that’s only a $3m increase on Mikko it does mean reduced depth yet again. If the right deal comes up I could definitely see them considering adding depth and prospects and using the prospects to help make bigger moves.

I just don't see it at all. Not with Nichushkin almost certainly gone. We'll have to wait and see exactly how that cap relief plays out but it almost certainly will solve the issues IMO.

The only reason to make a trade now is if they feel like the team needs a shakeup and to move in a different direction. And quite frankly I don't see why they need to do that and highly doubt the Avs management will feel any differently.


They're very likely going to get Landy back, they'll get a full season of Mitts as 2C next year, they'll get LOC back. And they'll have a chance to get some good looks at a few potentially solid young players as well(Behrens, Foudy, Kovalenko, Malinski).

No real need to do anything significant and Mikko is a lifer unless he wants out.


Edit: It's not like this season was a failure either. They lost to another very good team and lost one of our top 3 or 4 most important guys on the team for half the series. There was like 8 teams this year all with a legit chance to win the cup. Avs were one of them and simply lost to another one.


They do need to get younger as a team, but they can do that by giving the young guys I mentioned earlier a legitimate chance to earn roster spots. Maybe use the 2024 1st as a trade chip for a guy like Necas as well.

 

[Smitty426]

Swap of first rounders.

Nah, similar to what you paid to get him, with a slight add. We're not trading that pick.