Line Combos: Coaching Options Thread(Updated Lines In OP)Discuss Practice/PP/PK/Captaincy/lines

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I want Everberg with the big team as much as anyone, but saying he can't benefit from AHL time seems like a stretch to me. He can still get more used to the NA game and he can develop his offensive skills more as he's been playing on the top line down there, rather than the 3rd or 4th line here.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Not playing in the minors but playing period. I think Guenin will get a game soon (if Roy hasn't turned on Redmond) just to keep him somewhat fresh. I don't think it benefits anyone to sit longer than a week or so.

 

[Foppa2118]

People are way too hard on Cliche. He is good on the PK, and it isn't like he is taking valuable ice time away. His role really should be someone who is excellent in the face off circle though. Need to teach them youngens.

I think good on the PK is probably a stretch though. Talbot is an example of a guy that sucks 5 on 5 but is good on the PK. Cliche is an example of a guy that sucks 5 on 5, and is just ok on the PK. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I think good on the PK is probably a stretch though. Talbot is an example of a guy that sucks 5 on 5 but is good on the PK. Cliche is an example of a guy that sucks 5 on 5, and is just ok on the PK. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

I don't like Cliche, but come on, he's been good on the PK this year. I agree with someone else who said he's been harder on the puck this year and in the defensive zone. He was god awful in the opening game, but he's been fine since then. Sure, he provides no offense at all, but I think he's played better than McLeod, personally.

Also, it appears the Avs practice got cancelled as the PR team said they would practice last night.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't like Cliche, but come on, he's been good on the PK this year. I agree with someone else who said he's been harder on the puck this year and in the defensive zone. He was god awful in the opening game, but he's been fine since then. Sure, he provides no offense at all, but I think he's played better than McLeod, personally.

Agreed 100%. He has been a lot harder to knock around this year than last year, don't know why but it's true.

McLeod is still throwing hits and on rare occasions creating scoring chances but defensively he's been a complete liability. I agree the Highlander should come out of the lineup before Cliche, based on recent play.

 

[Foppa2118]

I want Everberg with the big team as much as anyone, but saying he can't benefit from AHL time seems like a stretch to me. He can still get more used to the NA game and he can develop his offensive skills more as he's been playing on the top line down there, rather than the 3rd or 4th line here.

It's not like he's some long term prospect though. He's almost assuredly not going to be in the top 6 on this team long term, he'll be in the bottom 6. If he hasn't stuck in the NHL in the next couple years, he'll probably part way with the organization and go back to Europe.

Hasn't he already shown in his pre-season and five regular season games that he's plenty comfortable with the NA game? I don't think there's any reason at all for concern over that.

Playing on the 3rd/4th line here is >>>>>>>>>> playing on the 1st line in Lake Erie. Especially when they signed him with the hopes of being a 3rd/4th line guy.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't like Cliche, but come on, he's been good on the PK this year. I agree with someone else who said he's been harder on the puck this year and in the defensive zone. He was god awful in the opening game, but he's been fine since then. Sure, he provides no offense at all, but I think he's played better than McLeod, personally.

Also, it appears the Avs practice got cancelled as the PR team said they would practice last night.

He's been fine on the PK, I'm not disappointed in him there, but he's not on Talbot's level. As far as hockey players that can be ok on the PK in the NHL, but not very good 5 on 5, there's plenty of guys like that around.

I guess we just disagree if you think he's gone beyond a good or ok level of play on the PK.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

It's not like he's some long term prospect though. He's almost assuredly not going to be in the top 6 on this team long term, he'll be in the bottom 6. If he hasn't stuck in the NHL in the next couple years, he'll probably part way with the organization and go back to Europe.

Hasn't he already shown in his pre-season and five regular season games that he's plenty comfortable with the NA game? I don't think there's any reason at all for concern over that.

Playing on the 3rd/4th line here is >>>>>>>>>> playing on the 1st line in Lake Erie. Especially when they signed him with the hopes of being a 3rd/4th line guy.

Why can't he be in the top 6 on this team? Two of our top wingers are in the twilight of their careers, and another is a UFA in two years. It's not like we're bursting at the seams with future top 6 wingers in the system.

We shouldn't just be developing him to ONLY be a 3rd or 4th liner, we should hope for more. Frankly, I could see him developing into a McGinn player who is capable of filling in the top 6 for long spurts. If a stretch in the AHL helps him develop his offensive game more, then I'm all for it. We already know he can play a defensive game, but if he adds more offense, he could be a real find for this team.

Like I said, I want him on this team as much as anyone, but I just don't understand the idea that he won't benefit from AHL time. He wasn't even in the main league in Sweden last year. Unless you've played 2-3 years in the AHL or are just too good for the league, I'm not sure there's any player who wouldn't benefit from playing down there more.

 

[Foppa2118]

Why can't he be in the top 6 on this team? Two of our top wingers are in the twilight of their careers, and another is a UFA in two years. It's not like we're bursting at the seams with future top 6 wingers in the system.

We shouldn't just be developing him to ONLY be a 3rd or 4th liner, we should hope for more. Frankly, I could see him developing into a McGinn player who is capable of filling in the top 6 for long spurts. If a stretch in the AHL helps him develop his offensive game more, then I'm all for it. We already know he can play a defensive game, but if he adds more offense, he could be a real find for this team.

Like I said, I want him on this team as much as anyone, but I just don't understand the idea that he won't benefit from AHL time. He wasn't even in the main league in Sweden last year. Unless you've played 2-3 years in the AHL or are just too good for the league, I'm not sure there's any player who wouldn't benefit from playing down there more.

He could be a top 6 player in the NHL, but that's not why they signed him, and that's not where they envisioned him. Not with the top six they have signed for the next two years, plus McGinn for the next two years as well.

He was brought in to hopefully improve the quality of the bottom 6, and if he can step into a top six roles when injuries hit that's a bonus. That's the reason all those guys like Rendulic, Henley, and Vincour were brought in during the summer. To prevent the bottom 6 from turning into a minor league team when they lose a couple guys like last year in the playoffs.

And they were all brought in so hopefully one or more can help them this year. They aren't long term projects.

 

[henchman21]

Alright alright... Everberg playing in the AHL isn't a bad thing for his game. He does have areas where he needs to and can improve in. Still, with roster space available he should be in the lineup until Winchester gets back (which should be tomorrow anyway so the point is moot). Can we agree on that?

 

[Avs_19]

Cliche has done a pretty good job on the PK but that's pretty much it. He isn't very good on faceoffs and is terrible at even strength.

McLeod is the worst forward on the team though. What happened to the guy who would hit everything in sight? Is he just way too slow now so players just easily slip his checks? Again, decent at times on the PK but others could easily do that job. He should be the first one getting benched but it won't happen.

 

[Foppa2118]

Alright alright... Everberg playing in the AHL isn't a bad thing for his game. He does have areas where he needs to and can improve in. Still, with roster space available he should be in the lineup until Winchester gets back (which should be tomorrow anyway so the point is moot). Can we agree on that?

I don't think playing in the minors is "bad" for Everberg. I just don't think it provides much more for his game at his age/development, than even just practicing with NHL players and Roy coaching him. He'll learn a lot more from just practices with Roy and watching video with coaching staff, than he will playing games and practicing with Chevy in the Lake Erie.

Also, by the way this comparison between being a scratch in the NHL and playing with LEM is all under the premise that he won't be playing games with the Avs. Something that would take a lengthy run of health, after Winchester gets back. Even then, maybe he gives Roy a reason to play him over Briere or McLeod.

With the playoffs on the verge of slipping away, I don't think they can afford to make decisions based on anything other than icing the best lineup. That's the biggest reason Everberg should be called up IMO, even if we disagree on how much it benefits him to be in Lake Erie.

Edit: I'm not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me in your post, haha. I assume you were referring to me.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Cliche has done a pretty good job on the PK but that's pretty much it. He isn't very good on faceoffs and is terrible at even strength.

McLeod is the worst forward on the team though. What happened to the guy who would hit everything in sight? Is he just way too slow now so players just easily slip his checks? Again, decent at times on the PK but others could easily do that job. He should be the first one getting benched but it won't happen.

The worse part about Mcleod is hes here for 3 more yrs. Mcleods been a **** hockey player for awhile now.

 

[henchman21]

I don't think playing in the minors is "bad" for Everberg. I just don't think it provides much more for his game at his age/development, than even just practicing with NHL players and Roy coaching him. He'll learn a lot more from just practices with Roy and watching video with coaching staff, than he will playing games and practicing with Chevy in the Lake Erie.

Also, by the way this is comparison between being a scratch in the NHL and playing with LEM is all under the premise that he won't be playing games with the Avs. Something that would take a lengthy run of health, after Winchester gets back. Even then, maybe he gives Roy a reason to play him over Briere or McLeod.

I would say it actually does for a while. The NA game is different, and the AHL is better than the league he was playing in before. He can get used to better competition and get used to a different style of game while getting 18-19 minutes a game instead of being a scratch. NHL teams don't practice as much as they used to during the season, and many of them are glorified walkthroughs. Now for how long is relative for each player. Maybe the lights up the next 15 games in the AHL and basically proves that he can handle this... maybe the effort dies down as he isn't trying to prove himself so much (if that happens, he will have struggles getting a call up again)... hard to say. I will agree Everberg is at the age where he shouldn't need much seasoning though, just some time to get used to the NA game and fix some bad habits he could get away with in Sweden. That might take 10 games, it might take a full season. After that, he will be about as good as he will ever be. So right now, if the choice is scratch or AHL... without a doubt AHL.

Just saw your edit... I wasn't really referring to anybody. Just trying to find a middle ground for everybody.

 

[Foppa2118]

I would say it actually does for a while. The NA game is different, and the AHL is better than the league he was playing in before. He can get used to better competition and get used to a different style of game while getting 18-19 minutes a game instead of being a scratch. NHL teams don't practice as much as they used to during the season, and many of them are glorified walkthroughs. Now for how long is relative for each player. Maybe the lights up the next 15 games in the AHL and basically proves that he can handle this... maybe the effort dies down as he isn't trying to prove himself so much (if that happens, he will have struggles getting a call up again)... hard to say. I will agree Everberg is at the age where he shouldn't need much seasoning though, just some time to get used to the NA game and fix some bad habits he could get away with in Sweden. That might take 10 games, it might take a full season. After that, he will be about as good as he will ever be. So right now, if the choice is scratch or AHL... without a doubt AHL.

I think I would definitely agree with you, and side with this line of thinking for Everberg, if I hadn't seen him in the pre-season games and five regular season games.

I didn't see any reason to be concerned that he doesn't get the NA game. He can play the NA game better than anyone on the 4th line for sure. I think his game is much more suited to the NA style than in Sweden anyway. He keeps it simple, and has a very meat and potatoes approach. Forechecks hard, goes to the net hard, back checks hard, is in the right position in all three zones. He gets it.

Also in terms of NHL practices, they may not be on the ice as much as they used to, but they still have video session on their off days. With Roy's attention to details in both team and individual play, any improvements he may or may not need to make will be benefited by this.

Edit: Screw middle ground.

In all reality, I think your previous post was the middle ground. We all think Everberg could help the team as it is now, but disagree on Cliche's PK effectiveness, and how much Lake Erie will help Everberg's game.

 

[frog]

I don't like Cliche, but come on, he's been good on the PK this year. I agree with someone else who said he's been harder on the puck this year and in the defensive zone. He was god awful in the opening game, but he's been fine since then. Sure, he provides no offense at all, but I think he's played better than McLeod, personally.

Also, it appears the Avs practice got cancelled as the PR team said they would practice last night.

I don't think cliché is very good on the pk. Too many times he has completely fanned on a clearing attempts which is the main thing you have to do out there. He rarely wins battles when the puck is loose in the defensive zone which is another big job for the pk.

Talbot, Mitchell, Oreilly and Landeskog are better on the pk and Mcleod wins more battles than cliché I would say.

 

[henchman21]

So maybe Roy agrees?

Colorado Avalanche @Avalanche · 4m 4 minutes ago
NEWS: Dennis Everberg has been recalled from the Lake Erie Monsters.

 

[Foppa2118]

Hope he tries this in the bottom six:

McGinn - Mitchell - Everberg
McLeod - Talbot - Briere

I really think that third line could be really strong. Everyone's strong on the forecheck, and Mitchell and Everberg are solid skating the puck in transition.

PK Units:

Mitchell - Talbot
O'Reilly - McLeod
Landy - Everberg

I've actually been wondering about them trying Mack on the PK. Not to block shots, but I really think his explosive first few steps might break up a lot of plays or force poor passes at the point, and if the puck pops free and he's anywhere close to the D man, he's gonna get to it first and go for a breakaway. Maybe wait until they're down a couple goals in a game and try it.

I think it might also help his confidence, and get him more into games by playing more. Helped Duchene a lot early in his career IMO.

 

[bohlmeister]

ROR Dutch Iggy
Landy Mitchabov Tangs
McGinn Mac Beast
McSuck Cliche Talbot

Read'em and weep boys and girls.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I'd like to see:

ROR - Dutch - Iggy
Lando - Malkin - Everbeast
McGinn - MacK - Tangs
Sucks - So - Much

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Landy-Duchene-ROR
McGinn-Mack-Iginla
Tanguay-Mitchell-Everberg
McLeod-Cliche-Talbot

Those top two lines looked good finishing the game last night. Everberg fills in where the 4th line plugs played at the end.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't put much stock in +/- but I just noticed O'Reilly is tied with Barrie for a team worst -8. He's never had a + game this year either. In his case i think that stat is probably fairly accurate. Hasn't been his usual self defensively, and isn't generating much offensively.

Hope he finally starts to click with Duchene again or whoever he plays with, because they need him at both ends of the ice.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I don't put much stock in +/- but I just noticed O'Reilly is tied with Barrie for a team worst -8. He's never had a + game this year either. In his case i think that stat is probably fairly accurate. Hasn't been his usual self defensively, and isn't generating much offensively.

Hope he finally starts to click with Duchene again or whoever he plays with, because they need him at both ends of the ice.

That's because of MacK and the Dmen. Mainly the Dmen. MacK seems to be really trying in the Dzone and not cheat, but he has still had his blunders.

RoR and Lando haven't been quite as aggressive on D as they have been in the past, but they have been playing smart and not really doing anything that leads to a goal. I can't really recall anything for Lando off the top of my head and the only plays I can think of for RoR was 1 play on the PK were he went for the puck and should have just let others get it, and then he lost a FO (could have been anyone, especially with our crappy FO ability) which was immediately scored (that goal that Pickard literally dropped out of his glove). Until a few games ago I thought Lando was one of our worst offensive players compared to expectations. Stone hands like crazy. but in my research of breaking down the goals to try and figure out a more accurate +/- (who is actually responsible, not just who is on the ice) Lando was leading the team despite having very very few offensively good plays. RoR was one of the few guys as a + as well. Just goes to show how important sound defense is. Iggy was another guy who was close to the team lead while everyone was complaining about his lack of offense because he too would play sound defense shift in and shift out.

Barrie, however, that's on Barrie. Dude has done so many things that help lead to a goal against, and he leads the team major screw ups. Which just goes to show how bad his D has been considering all the points he has racked up. Most his mess ups have been defensive related as well. Things like loosing his man/snot knowing which man to pick up, or being too physically weak, or missing a poke check. Where as a lot of the other Dmen's mistakes have come from not being able to handle the puck and turning the puck back over, a lot of times in very bad spots on the ice leading directly to great scoring chances turned into goals.

 

[AvsFan2123]

Hejda is starting to pick up his game a little, I have noticed a definite improvement in his play lately. And I'm going to catch some heat for this, but Stuart is starting to look decent the last couple games. He still makes bonehead decisions with the puck sometimes, but he's playing better D, playing physically, and winning 1 on 1 battles. He's still playing average, but better since the start.

 

[henchman21]

Hejda is starting to pick up his game a little, I have noticed a definite improvement in his play lately. And I'm going to catch some heat for this, but Stuart is starting to look decent the last couple games. He still makes bonehead decisions with the puck sometimes, but he's playing better D, playing physically, and winning 1 on 1 battles. He's still playing average, but better since the start.

You shouldn't catch heat because it is true. Stuart has been solid for the Avs since he got moved to a more reasonable role. He is beastly on the PK and solid 5v5. He needed time to get used to the system.