Class of 2011 HHOF

[Epsilon]

I don't remember anyone with voter standing calling Brind'Amour the Hart trophy favorite in 2005-06 at the half-way point of the season, or anywhere around there. I do remember some homer Canes fans on HF saying that, but that's just about it. Any reputable sources out there making such a claim?

Eric Staal has a legitimate case for being "player of the year" for 2005-06 (regular season+playoffs), but I don't really see Brind'Amour getting anywhere close. It's not like Datsyuk in 2008-09, where he was the best two-way player in the league and finished in the top 5 in scoring (and 3rd in Hart voting). Brind'Amour was a great defensive forward, but was barely top 50 in the league in scoring. Leadership and intangibles doesn't even begin to make up that sort of gap.

 

[lextune]

Nieuwendyk gets in and Oates doesn't?

Yup, the HOF really knows what it's doing. Wtf is wrong with these guys?

Harry Sinden is on the committee. He has the personality to beat down at least half of the other 17 members.

There will be no Oates in the hall as long as Sinden is there.

Simple.

 

[lextune]

Nieuwendyk gets in and Oates doesn't?

Yup, the HOF really knows what it's doing. Wtf is wrong with these guys?

Harry Sinden is on the committee. He has the personality to beat down at least half of the other 17 members.

There will be no Oates in the hall as long as Sinden is there.

Simple.

 

[revolverjgw]

Jagr and Thornton had strong second halves to cement themselves as the two Hart candidates, but halfway through the year, Brind'Amour was considered the front-runner.

By who, his mom? I don't remember this at all.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Success

If both C are instrumental to success, then I don't see why not. The knock on Brind'Amour's case being that he only played at his 2005-06 level for one full season, maybe two, whereas most of the others on your list put together numerous campaigns of similar acclaim.



Brind'Amour was logging huge minutes that year (24 minutes per game) as a Selke-caliber defensive forward, and an offensive force on the powerplay. It's a coach's dream to be able to give your veteran C all the tough minutes at even strength, and know he will also be a key contributor offensively. Not to mention a terrific leader to a team with a good blend of youth and veterans.

Jagr and Thornton had strong second halves to cement themselves as the two Hart candidates, but halfway through the year, Brind'Amour was considered the front-runner. The fact that he continued his strong play for an extra two months to captain his team to a Cup is what puts that season over the top. All things considered, he was the league's top C that year in my books.

Success being the operative word. More precisely team success.

If you look at the 1997 and 1998 Red Wings there was a synergy that flowed from line to line from Yzerman to Federov to Larionov and Draper, regardless of how the shifts were arranged or the responsibilities. The four centers dictated the game the Red Wings wanted to play whether defensively or offensively.For this to happen the two top centers have to works in harmony and the rest join in.

In 2002 and 2006 Brind'Amour first with Francis then with Staal was an integral part of this synergy as the Hurricanes went to the finals, winning in 2006.The actual individual performance is secondary to the team result.

On the other hand if you look at some of the other teams Brind'Amour played on.St. Louis with Oates and Philadelphia with Lindros. Both teams were productive but played a disjointed, inconsistent game. Evident with the Flyers - there was the Lindros game and the other Flyer game. The fact that Lindros was a power center does not enter the picture. Messier was a power center yet with or without Gretzky on the Oilers, later in 1994 with the Rangers the team synergy thru center was sustained.

This is where one of the key evaluations about Rod Brind'Amour's career will take place.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Except

Harry Sinden is on the committee. He has the personality to beat down at least half of the other 17 members.

There will be no Oates in the hall as long as Sinden is there.

Simple.

Except if the alternative point of view is supported by Scotty Bowman than Harry folds. If neither supports a point of view then it is very unlokely that the point of view will ever carry the day.

 

[Hab-a-maniac]

Maybe its because its a nice round number, but I've always considered 10 or more goals in the playoffs a big factor.

Well he was a factor. I poorly stated it. Just saying he wasn't a HOF-type factor and you can surely put Mullen, MacInnis, Vernon and Gilmour's efforts ahead of his in Conn Smythe importance. That's what I meant, I just sort of phrased it a bit wrong.

 

[Hab-a-maniac]

Harry Sinden is on the committee. He has the personality to beat down at least half of the other 17 members.

There will be no Oates in the hall as long as Sinden is there.

Simple.

Sinden always was a real S.O.B. so I wouldn't be shocked. I wonder if he'll pull a Conn Smythe, who quit the HOF selection committee in 1971 for inducting Busher Jackson, saying putting that name in with all the other Leaf greats was a sham. He was seeing it through his own bias because Jackson was an off-ice party animal who never met his standards for clean, decent athlete's behaviour. Well if Harry's likes and dislikes hold sway then I guess that's why Neely got in but if Oates is kept out next year, someone's gotta step up. Especially if he's kept out over ****ing Sundin or some less deserving guy. If that happens, I boycott the damn place and officially call those people out. Why don't we call on Sweet Lou if that happens? He's listened to and well respected. He's got Oatsey as an assistant in Jersey now. Even if you remove a lot of the HOF's questionable entries, Oates has to get in.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Sinden always was a real S.O.B. so I wouldn't be shocked. I wonder if he'll pull a Conn Smythe, who quit the HOF selection committee in 1971 for inducting Busher Jackson, saying putting that name in with all the other Leaf greats was a sham. He was seeing it through his own bias because Jackson was an off-ice party animal who never met his standards for clean, decent athlete's behaviour. Well if Harry's likes and dislikes hold sway then I guess that's why Neely got in but if Oates is kept out next year, someone's gotta step up. Especially if he's kept out over ****ing Sundin or some less deserving guy. If that happens, I boycott the damn place and officially call those people out. Why don't we call on Sweet Lou if that happens? He's listened to and well respected. He's got Oatsey as an assistant in Jersey now. Even if you remove a lot of the HOF's questionable entries, Oates has to get in.

What are you talking about? I feel that Oates should be in the hall but there is no way, except maybe in fantasy terms, that you can make a case that Oates had a better career than Sundin who was a stud and complete player with virtually no support in his career.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What are you talking about? I feel that Oates should be in the hall but there is no way, except maybe in fantasy terms, that you can make a case that Oates had a better career than Sundin who was a stud and complete player with virtually no support in his career.

Huh? I don't think Sundin was any more complete than Oates. Oates got a lot more Selke votes than Sundin (even if they were mostly based off his faceoff prowess), and neither was particularly physical. I guess Sundin was better at protecting the puck, but I don't see any big intangibles advantage for Sundin. If anything, Oates was better defensively than Sundin.

So yeah, I think these are two players who can mostly be captured by their stats - Oates with the significantly better peak - Sundin with more consistency.

 

[Cory Trevor]

Oates should get in. Numbers are there. The old argument of "which player has more impact on their line" begins and ends with Oates.

next year's class: Sakic, Sundin, Oates and Shanahan would be a great class

The only knock against him I think is that he ratted out De Niro in Goodfellas