Value of: Christian Dvorak to MTL

[Foppberg]

Sure, specially at 6M. But that wasn’t the purpose of my message.

Dvorak at #2 is scary bad.

Um...

 

[staveNsteel]

Not bad? Dvorak has never produced 40+ and is 25 year old ( the upside is quickly fading)

I’d be more confortable with him as 3rd C that can play 2nd C in case of injury. But in any event, unless Suzuki and Caufield completely dominate, I don’t see this as good enough Cs to make the playoffs.

Arizona as a whole doesn't produce points. The upside is that Dvorak is still young, has more upside outside AZ than he does stuck there. Even if he can produce at a 50pt clip as the 2C, that's solid. That's something I'd move a late 1st to get.

 

[Mr Positive]

Arizona is tanking for Wright

Dvorak staying or going doesnt change much about their odds. They are going to get caved in regardless

They'd also want to have some kind of a team for Wright to walk into.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Not bad? Dvorak has never produced 40+ and is 25 year old ( the upside is quickly fading)

I'm not going to say that your wrong, anything can happen.

But if you add some context you'll see that Dvorak most likely has plenty of untapped potential. I believe under better circumstances Dvorak has plenty more to give. He's done quite well for us on a crap team with crap linemates, coached crappily.

 

[Captain97]

Dvorak staying or going doesnt change much about their odds. They are going to get caved in regardless

They'd also want to have some kind of a team for Wright to walk into.

I'm not sure I your aware but Dvorak has been available for a couple months now, so the underlying premise of Arizona probably doesn't want to trade him is kind of flawed.

 

[Mike Jones]

If this rumour is true and I'm Arizona I grab any picks Montreal offers.

Then I hire more scouts and development people.

 

[MasterMatt25]

It’ll cost more than that.

Then I really don't want

 

[NORiculous]

Arizona as a whole doesn't produce points. The upside is that Dvorak is still young, has more upside outside AZ than he does stuck there. Even if he can produce at a 50pt clip as the 2C, that's solid. That's something I'd move a late 1st to get.

I don’t see 25 as still young although he might have some hidden upside still left. Like I said, Dvorak would be great as 3rd C that can play on the 2nd when injury hits.

But banking on his upside to appear so the 2nd C is filled appropriately… doesn’t seem to be the best approach.

At 25 (will turn 26 during the season) he has never produced more then 38pts and people project him at 55ish? Sure, it could happen. But we have to admit that there are a lot of chances it doesn’t.

The Habs don’t have the reputation and the team to produce a lot of pts either.

 

[Heldig]

If this rumour is true and I'm Arizona I grab any picks Montreal offers.

Then I hire more scouts and development people.

I think Arizona has ALL the scouting people now.

 

[NORiculous]

I'm not going to say that your wrong, anything can happen.

But if you add some context you'll see that Dvorak most likely has plenty of untapped potential. I believe under better circumstances Dvorak has plenty more to give. He's done quite well for us on a crap team with crap linemates, coached crappily.

I am not saying he doesn’t. But making a move and banking on it to happen is risky.

If it doesn’t happen, maybe the Habs should have kept the picks and used them to draft and build trough the draft instead of trying to fix on the fly.

 

[Jormungandr]

I'm not sure I your aware but Dvorak has been available for a couple months now, so the underlying premise of Arizona probably doesn't want to trade him is kind of flawed.

Dvorak has been “available” for months in the sense that everyone on the roster is available except Chychrun. It’s no secret that Arizona is selling everything for futures. Dvorak’s name keeps coming up because he’s one of the most desirable pieces.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Then I hire more scouts and development people.

You're months too late. AZ already did that.

Edit: we've actually got enough picks. We need live bodies. Can only have so many prospects come through at once. Gotta stagger contract years, etc.

 

[General Disarray]

If they get Dvorak from the Canes pick that is the ultimate Counter move. Literally brilliant.

 

[KevSkillz4]

If they get Dvorak from the Canes pick that is the ultimate Counter move. Literally brilliant.

It's perfect for MTL. Better contract, less potential than KK, but pretty good top 6C and he is going to put 20-25 goals, no doubt.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Arizona as a whole doesn't produce points. The upside is that Dvorak is still young, has more upside outside AZ than he does stuck there. Even if he can produce at a 50pt clip as the 2C, that's solid. That's something I'd move a late 1st to get.

Montreal only scored 16 more goals than Arizona over the last two seasons (~126 games). I think less ice time and not getting PP1 time with Kessel and Chychrun will hurt him more than the extra ~8-12 goals the Habs will score might help, so I struggle to believe his production will improve by much, if at all.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Why not go all out and get both Hertl as our 2C and Dvorak as our 3C

Trade both 1sts, 2nds, Poehling, Drouin prospects whatever to make it happen!

Suzuki
Hertl
Dvorak
Paquette

I like it!

 

[Mr Positive]

I'm not sure I your aware but Dvorak has been available for a couple months now, so the underlying premise of Arizona probably doesn't want to trade him is kind of flawed.

It's not flawed if you think of the process as open to what the trade market wants to take from you. Like for instance, maybe both Garland and Dvorak were available, but you still make sure to keep one. Plus, it's very likely that Kessel is going out by the trade deadline.

It's also not just Wright you have to worry about. You need to have players for Keller and Chychrun to play with, and you want a quick turnaround, or they'll want out. They are signed, but the NHL proves that with leaks and comments you can basically force your way out.

Of course I can't know, but with Garland gone, and all the other players out, trading out Dvorak on top of that is just too much.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I am not saying he doesn’t. But making a move and banking on it to happen is risky.

If it doesn’t happen, maybe the Habs should have kept the picks and used them to draft and build trough the draft instead of trying to fix on the fly.

Keeping the picks and going the draft route has even more risk, no? Those picks might never even reach the NHL. Once you get beyond the first few picks in the draft your odds of finding a regular NHLer drop significantly and the Carolina pick is most likely gonna be a later round pick. Just playin' devil's advocate here, but there's ALWAYS risk.

Edit: It really is all about risk management and taking the right risks. You'd know better than me which is best for MTL.

 

[Mr Positive]

Keeping the picks and going the draft route has even more risk, no? Those picks might never even reach the NHL. Once you get beyond the first few picks in the draft your odds of finding a regular NHLer drop significantly and the Carolina pick is most likely gonna be a later round pick. Just playin' devil's advocate here, but there's ALWAYS risk.

Edit: It really is all about risk management and taking the right risks. You'd know better than me which is best for MTL.

Also of course, part of the development is in the NHL (it's unavoidable), and so you need a core of veterans for those young players to sheltered with, and it's better on their morale if they can get some wins (even if playoffs aren't in cards)

 

[Natey]

Who is this guy?

A video coach in the KHL lol

 

[Kai Yo T]

I'm not sure I your aware but Dvorak has been available for a couple months now, so the underlying premise of Arizona probably doesn't want to trade him is kind of flawed.

It is?

Wouldn't trying to convince someone that because the team is listening to offers and has turned down every one of them, that they really, really want to trade him be the flaw here?

What that really means is "convince me or we'll keep him."

 

[Gravity]

Why not go all out and get both Hertl as our 2C and Dvorak as our 3C

Trade both 1sts, 2nds, Poehling, Drouin prospects whatever to make it happen!

Suzuki
Hertl
Dvorak
Paquette

I like it!

Yes let's throw all our chips to build an eternally mediocre team instead of keeping with the re-tool.

 

[Mr Positive]

Why not go all out and get both Hertl as our 2C and Dvorak as our 3C

Trade both 1sts, 2nds, Poehling, Drouin prospects whatever to make it happen!

Suzuki
Hertl
Dvorak
Paquette

I like it!

The Sharks are resisting their rebuild. Hertl is likely the lynch pin, because he's an impending UFA this season. But, as of now Hertl is likely unavailable. They will try to win this year, and maybe without the distraction of Kane around things will be better. Also the division is weak enough for them to go for it.

But mid season Hertl could be available if the Sharks stink

 

[Mike Jones]

I think Arizona has ALL the scouting people now.

With their picks across the next few drafts they'll probably need more.

 

[Mike Jones]

You're months too late. AZ already did that.

Edit: we've actually got enough picks. We need live bodies. Can only have so many prospects come through at once. Gotta stagger contract years, etc.

They should grab all the picks they can.

Waiver claims, free agents, and PTOs will take care of the bodies.