CHL/NCAA

[OMG67]

I don't see how this improves the quality of play in the CHL. Right now the main advantage of going the CHL route is you get to play in a higher level league at 16, rather than waiting until you are 18 to go the NCAA route. Under the proposed new rules, those players who choose the CHL route could transfer to the NCAA at 18 instead of playing in the CHL until they are 19 or 20. Won't this just lower the level of play in the CHL?

Plus teams will need to rethink the whole rebuild process. Right now most players stay in the CHL until they are 19 so the current rebuild process makes sense. But under the proposed rules, teams will need to worry about their first and second round picks transferring to the NCAA at 18. I can see NCAA scouts at the CHL games looking for players to recruit for their programs.

Will the CHL become like Junior A teams where they proudly list the players who have been recruited from their team to play in the NCAA. Will the CHL become the USHL of Canada?

I don’t think that will happen at all unless the 18 year old is in a bad situation that is hurting his development.

What is more likely to happen is the player will play his full term in the CHL and then go NCAA. Not all players will get full ride scholarships so those players will need the top up they would get fromt he value of their CHL scholarship.

The player will not be in a rush to play NCAA. I don’t see a situation where a decent 18 year old will leave the CHL to go to NCAA and ride the pine as a 19 year old Rookie. The player would benefit from additional development in the CHL. Go to school at 20 or 21 with a more mature body and maybe even some Canadian University under his belt to transfer credits.

 

[bcspragu]

I don't see how this improves the quality of play in the CHL. Right now the main advantage of going the CHL route is you get to play in a higher level league at 16, rather than waiting until you are 18 to go the NCAA route. Under the proposed new rules, those players who choose the CHL route could transfer to the NCAA at 18 instead of playing in the CHL until they are 19 or 20. Won't this just lower the level of play in the CHL?

Plus teams will need to rethink the whole rebuild process. Right now most players stay in the CHL until they are 19 so the current rebuild process makes sense. But under the proposed rules, teams will need to worry about their first and second round picks transferring to the NCAA at 18. I can see NCAA scouts at the CHL games looking for players to recruit for their programs.

Will the CHL become like Junior A teams where they proudly list the players who have been recruited from their team to play in the NCAA. Will the CHL become the USHL of Canada?

Sure some stars play ncaa at 18-19 the vast majority of the league is 20+. I think this would bring more talent to CHL and you’d see ncaa go almost exclusively 20-24 with usdtp players making up the rare younger players

 

[Otto]

MSN

 

[OMG67]

MSN

It was interesting that the article mentioned the Name Image Likeness (NIL) rule change int he NCAA and how that could change the fortunes of Canadian hockey players. The fact is that Canadian Athletes competing in the NCAA cannot earn money from NIL directly in the same way as American athletes because they are int he USA on a Student Visa. They are ineligible to earn money in the same was as the American athletes because their Visa restricts it. The Canadian Athletes can earn off NIL but only from Canada. They cannot make personal appearances. Anything they do has to take place on Canadian soil which requires them to return to Canada to perform whatever duties required. There are some exceptions for things like JErsey sales etc but nowhere near what is available for American athletes.

The other question regarding NIL is how impactful hockey is from that perspective. We can see how impactful it is in sports like Football and Basketball but I am not sure Canadian hockey players would be considering the NCAA for anything to do with NIL revenues.

 

[Kingpin794]

It was interesting that the article mentioned the Name Image Likeness (NIL) rule change int he NCAA and how that could change the fortunes of Canadian hockey players. The fact is that Canadian Athletes competing in the NCAA cannot earn money from NIL directly in the same way as American athletes because they are int he USA on a Student Visa. They are ineligible to earn money in the same was as the American athletes because their Visa restricts it. The Canadian Athletes can earn off NIL but only from Canada. They cannot make personal appearances. Anything they do has to take place on Canadian soil which requires them to return to Canada to perform whatever duties required. There are some exceptions for things like JErsey sales etc but nowhere near what is available for American athletes.

The other question regarding NIL is how impactful hockey is from that perspective. We can see how impactful it is in sports like Football and Basketball but I am not sure Canadian hockey players would be considering the NCAA for anything to do with NIL revenues.

NCAA hockey only makes a fraction of the money of Football or basketball. I’d be shocked if any hockey players even at quality programs were making any meaningful NIL money.

 

[HockeyPops]

NHL preparing for possible CHL-NCAA rule change

A major shift in the hockey world could be coming soon. According to Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, the NHL gave the general managers an update on the future of the NCAA and Canadian Hockey League relationship this week at the GM meetings.

www.sportsnet.ca

The msn article doesn't display properly on my device.

 

[OMG67]

NCAA hockey only makes a fraction of the money of Football or basketball. I’d be shocked if any hockey players even at quality programs were making any meaningful NIL money.

Which is why I was surprised it was even mentioned as a factor to be honest.

 

[OHL4Life]

Which is why I was surprised it was even mentioned as a factor to be honest.

I laugh when dreger said there was no truth to the NCAA/CHL reports

 

[leafs4life94]

I wonder if you'll start seeing players that are stuck in no-mans land for their D+1/D+2 year where they're too good for the OHL, but not good enough for the NHL, end up playing a year in the NCAA - they'd be playing against older, yet still skilled competetion

 

[OMG67]

I wonder if you'll start seeing players that are stuck in no-mans land for their D+1/D+2 year where they're too good for the OHL, but not good enough for the NHL, end up playing a year in the NCAA - they'd be playing against older, yet still skilled competetion

I think the OHL would protect itself with their Standard Player Agreement that if they go to NCAA early, they forfeit their scholarship or some other form of forfeiture.

 

[Kingpin794]

I wonder if you'll start seeing players that are stuck in no-mans land for their D+1/D+2 year where they're too good for the OHL, but not good enough for the NHL, end up playing a year in the NCAA - they'd be playing against older, yet still skilled competetion

The NCAA isn’t even a league for 19 year olds. Usually the guys holding their own there are 20/21/22 or older even. Might see some middle six guys go there instead of being OA’s. If they are good enough to play at 19 in the NCAA they are good enough to get good ice time in the OHL.

 

[leafs4life94]

The NCAA isn’t even a league for 19 year olds. Usually the guys holding their own there are 20/21/22 or older even. Might see some middle six guys go there instead of being OA’s. If they are good enough to play at 19 in the NCAA they are good enough to get good ice time in the OHL.

I'm more thinking of guys who might be seen as too good for the OHL, someone like a Cowan or Goyette, that might benefit from playing against older competition as opposed to players younger than them.

 

[BadgerBruce]

I’ve said this before but will repeat it now: the NCAA can go right ahead and change its eligibility regs to allow guys with CHL experience to play. But will the CHL change its standard player agreement so this can happen? Right now, a guy needs to play 4 CHL seasons or be age 20 to fulfil his contractual obligation, unless he goes to the NHL (this is part of the NHL-CHL Agreement) or is released and clears waivers. Otherwise, players who jump ship for the NCAA would be breaching their CHL contracts.

 

[Corso]

I’ve said this before but will repeat it now: the NCAA can go right ahead and change its eligibility regs to allow guys with CHL experience to play. But will the CHL change its standard player agreement so this can happen? Right now, a guy needs to play 4 CHL seasons or be age 20 to fulfil his contractual obligation, unless he goes to the NHL (this is part of the NHL-CHL Agreement) or is released and clears waivers. Otherwise, players who jump ship for the NCAA would be breaching their CHL contracts.

The NCAA exclusion of CHL players is very unlikely to stand up in a court of law and that is why you are seeing all the chatter about the looming changes. I would venture to guess that the CHL standard contract agreement would also not stand up to a court challenge and will be re-written.

 

[bcspragu]

I’ve said this before but will repeat it now: the NCAA can go right ahead and change its eligibility regs to allow guys with CHL experience to play. But will the CHL change its standard player agreement so this can happen? Right now, a guy needs to play 4 CHL seasons or be age 20 to fulfil his contractual obligation, unless he goes to the NHL (this is part of the NHL-CHL Agreement) or is released and clears waivers. Otherwise, players who jump ship for the NCAA would be breaching their CHL contracts.

NCAA could change tomorrow to let CHL players in by not declaring them professionals. Nothing needs to change in CHL deals to make this work. 16-19 year old seasons would be major junior either Chl or ushl. 20-23 would be ncaa. Makes all 3 leagues stronger as a result

 

[RayzorIsDull]

This would be the death of the CHL.

 

[Kingpin794]

This would be the death of the CHL.

No it wouldn't. If NCAA is so preferable, everyone would be leaving for it and the USHL/BCHL already. Fact is, if you want to be drafted, the CHL is a much better option than USHL/BCHL. Unless you're a late birthday or able to finish school early, you aren't playing NCAA hockey in your draft year. You don't get the same exposure. Scouts weigh the CHL much higher still than leagues that act as feeders for the NCAA. I honestly think this would be good for the CHL. American kids would be way more likely to come to the OHL/WHL first and then head to the NCAA once they are 20 if they haven't made the AHL by then.

 

[Otto]

This would be the death of the CHL.

You know they would still have to pay to go to school right? Anyone good enough to get a free ride scholarship offer is probably already going

 

[BadgerBruce]

NCAA could change tomorrow to let CHL players in by not declaring them professionals. Nothing needs to change in CHL deals to make this work. 16-19 year old seasons would be major junior either Chl or ushl. 20-23 would be ncaa. Makes all 3 leagues stronger as a result

Nothing needs to change? Ever heard of Breach of Contract?

 

[RayzorIsDull]

You know they would still have to pay to go to school right? Anyone good enough to get a free ride scholarship offer is probably already going

Not necessarily NIL packages are now covering tuition for recruits. For hockey it would be such a small expense for a school and once they get to school they can pursue their degree after retirement.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

No it wouldn't. If NCAA is so preferable, everyone would be leaving for it and the USHL/BCHL already. Fact is, if you want to be drafted, the CHL is a much better option than USHL/BCHL. Unless you're a late birthday or able to finish school early, you aren't playing NCAA hockey in your draft year. You don't get the same exposure. Scouts weigh the CHL much higher still than leagues that act as feeders for the NCAA. I honestly think this would be good for the CHL. American kids would be way more likely to come to the OHL/WHL first and then head to the NCAA once they are 20 if they haven't made the AHL by then.

The NCAA is averaging 7 NHL 1st round picks over the past 10 years which is terrific considering they're competing with Europe and the CHL. Most likely another 7 this year. Possibly the #1 pick in 2025 as well. For instance look at the 02 draft with Owen Power. 2 years USHL, 2 years NCAA will make 8.3 mil next year. Maybe Byfield will hit big soon but Power is now on the verge of generational wealth. He's far ahead of any other 02 OHL player selected. Celebrini went BCHL, Kent Johnson BCHL. Jack Hughes never played NCAA and went #1. The tides are changing fast. The NCAA is becoming more and more powerless and the schools will just go over the heads of the NCAA and go to court.

 

[Kingpin794]

The NCAA is averaging 7 NHL 1st round picks over the past 10 years which is terrific considering they're competing with Europe and the CHL. Most likely another 7 this year. Possibly the #1 pick in 2025 as well. For instance look at the 02 draft with Owen Power. 2 years USHL, 2 years NCAA will make 8.3 mil next year. Maybe Byfield will hit big soon but Power is now on the verge of generational wealth. He's far ahead of any other 02 OHL player selected. Celebrini went BCHL, Kent Johnson BCHL. Jack Hughes never played NCAA and went #1. The tides are changing fast. The NCAA is becoming more and more powerless and the schools will just go over the heads of the NCAA and go to court.

No they aren't. You're counting the NTDP as NCAA. That is its own thing even apart from the USHL. Its an all star team. So what if you aren't one of the 20 some players that make the NTDP? Way more likely you're a first round pick playing in the CHL than outside of it in NA. For every Kent Johnson there are still 2 players from the CHL that are just as successful.

Just 2023:
24 CHL players taken in the first 2 rounds
3 players from USHL or other NCAA feeder leagues taken round 1 or 2 who weren't on the NTDP.
And none of those 3 guys were American or Canadian.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

No they aren't. You're counting the NTDP as NCAA. That is its own thing even apart from the USHL. Its an all star team. So what if you aren't one of the 20 some players that make the NTDP? Way more likely you're a first round pick playing in the CHL than outside of it in NA. For every Kent Johnson there are still 2 players from the CHL that are just as successful.

Just 2023:
24 CHL players taken in the first 2 rounds
3 players from USHL or other NCAA feeder leagues taken round 1 or 2 who weren't on the NTDP.
And none of those 3 guys were American or Canadian.

Those NTDP guys can go anywhere they please though. Sometimes they come to the CHL sometimes they go to the NCAA.

 

[HolyRoller]

NCAA hockey only makes a fraction of the money of Football or basketball. I’d be shocked if any hockey players even at quality programs were making any meaningful NIL money.

Football and Basketball subsidize mens hockey. Just like womens lacrosse, softball, golf, soccer, chess twam....