News Article: Chevy not pressured!

[Gm0ney]

Zero AMD frolic are not the pieces I'd be changing. I mean adding those types of players do not cost either team a tone. smid was had for less ten a seto. As was Holland. Versteeg (a seto equiv) returned two good prospects. Againbi feel pike your making it out to be harder then it is/was.

I disagree that the above mentioned trades constitute rearranging deck chairs.

That's not rearranging deco chairs

Don't text and drive!

Guys who can play in the Top 6 forward group or Top 4 D aren't what I think of as deck-chair rearranging. It's the low-end AHL tweener signings and wire pickups that fit that description: Wright, Peluso, Brett MacLean, Miettinen (ignoring his (mis)usage in the Top 6 for the purposes of this discussion), Meech, Jones, Flood, McArdle, Maxwell, good lord...now those are deck chairs!

 

[surixon]

Zero AMD frolic are not the pieces I'd be changing. I mean adding those types of players do not cost either team a tone. smid was had for less ten a seto. As was Holland. Versteeg (a seto equiv) returned two good prospects. Againbi feel pike your making it out to be harder then it is/was.

I disagree that the above mentioned trades constitute rearranging deck chairs.

That's not rearranging deco chairs

Your missing my point, in a vacum yes adding those players verstegg and Smid without subtracting equivilient players to be able to fit them under the CAP would indeed be upgrading the team.

However:

Smid makes 3.5 million and Verstegg makes 4.5 million. Who do you move out to fit them in CAP wise. I don't have any issue with your acquisition costs but the team doesn't have cap space to add them. Shipping out junk like Stuart and Thorbourn wont do enough to fit them in. You'd have to ship out a big contract, Seto's 3 million deal likely being the easiest to move. That is why I'm saying its just rearranging deck chairs because shipping one in means we ship out an equivalent asset out elsewhere.

Next summer Chevy will have the cap space to add a Verstegg or Smid to the roster without needing to ship out an equivalent contract. That is all I'm saying.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I know for a fact there are several teams that are trying to make significant moves but they can't because almost every team is hamstrung by the cap this season.

Are the Jets one of those teams? Yes. But they can't really make a big move because of the cap situation. I expect this summer for some change to happen within our top core of players.

 

[Whileee]

I know for a fact there are several teams that are trying to make significant moves but they can't because almost every team is hamstrung by the cap this season.

Are the Jets one of those teams? Yes. But they can't really make a big move because of the cap situation. I expect this summer for some change to happen within our top core of players.

Bang on!

20 of the teams are projected to have less than $1.5 million in cap space, so if we trade a core player we need to match salaries. When you are matching salaries, you either have to take two lesser players back in the trade, or you have to be concerned about contract term. Would you want to trade a player with 4-7 years left on a contract for someone with 1-2? Only if you are a strong contender.

The Jets need to stay patient and make the right trades at the right time, not sacrifice assets to try to improve a bit during the season.

The only other major move would be a coaching change. That might have a short-term effect, but it could also backfire. In any case, I think they should only make a coaching change if they have their favourite candidate available. That might not happen until the off-season.

 

[Grind]

Your missing my point, in a vacum yes adding those players verstegg and Smid without subtracting equivilient players to be able to fit them under the CAP would indeed be upgrading the team.

However:

Smid makes 3.5 million and Verstegg makes 4.5 million. Who do you move out to fit them in CAP wise. I don't have any issue with your acquisition costs but the team doesn't have cap space to add them. Shipping out junk like Stuart and Thorbourn wont do enough to fit them in. You'd have to ship out a big contract, Seto's 3 million deal likely being the easiest to move. That is why I'm saying its just rearranging deck chairs because shipping one in means we ship out an equivalent asset out elsewhere.

Next summer Chevy will have the cap space to add a Verstegg or Smid to the roster without needing to ship out an equivalent contract. That is all I'm saying.

yes, I agree with that and understand it. My point was mainl, even with everyone in this **** cap situation, those trade happened.

Those teams had to do some some juggling to make it work and it paid off. Yes its' difficult. Yes it takes the proper aligning of two team needs etc. And NO, i'm not expecting it to happen prior to the deadline.

Merely my point was, can we stop acting like these trades are akin to hunting a unicorn and bathing in its blood?

They are not impossible and they are not ALWAYS a bad idea. That's all I've been trying to get at. And for the final time to really drive it home, I do not expect one of these to happen.

I just feel like this "rearranging deck chairs" meme has taken on abit of a life of its own.

 

[tbcwpg]

yes, I agree with that and understand it. My point was mainl, even with everyone in this **** cap situation, those trade happened.

Those teams had to do some some juggling to make it work and it paid off. Yes its' difficult. Yes it takes the proper aligning of two team needs etc. And NO, i'm not expecting it to happen prior to the deadline.

Merely my point was, can we stop acting like these trades are akin to hunting a unicorn and bathing in its blood?

They are not impossible and they are not ALWAYS a bad idea. That's all I've been trying to get at. And for the final time to really drive it home, I do not expect one of these to happen.

I just feel like this "rearranging deck chairs" meme has taken on abit of a life of its own.

I don't think people are deliberately saying that trades are a bad idea. My personal feeling is that the trades that have been made this season thus far are not the type of trades that would help this team to a degree that makes it worthwhile.

 

[Grind]

I don't think people are deliberately saying that trades are a bad idea. My personal feeling is that the trades that have been made this season thus far are not the type of trades that would help this team to a degree that makes it worthwhile.

i guess that's where we'll just have to disagree.

While they may not have been what'll help a tonne directly, to me the writings been on the wall for this season for the last month.

Finagling a trade that sends a guy like joki or seto out for prospects/picks would help the team long term (though i'm very aware that would be tricky due to cap)

and moving some b prospects/depth picks for a young upgrade in our bottom six (like holland) would help the team now.

Not in major ways, but it is possible to make small smart moves that can have a much bigger impact.


Again, I don't expect anything like this to happen until the trade deadline but moves like that would work, and are possible. Not frequent or likely, but they can be done.

 

[ps241]

I know for a fact there are several teams that are trying to make significant moves but they can't because almost every team is hamstrung by the cap this season.

Are the Jets one of those teams? Yes. But they can't really make a big move because of the cap situation. I expect this summer for some change to happen within our top core of players.

I expect real movememt on the Jets this summer when the cap goes up and other teams have room.

 

[surixon]

yes, I agree with that and understand it. My point was mainl, even with everyone in this **** cap situation, those trade happened.

Those teams had to do some some juggling to make it work and it paid off. Yes its' difficult. Yes it takes the proper aligning of two team needs etc. And NO, i'm not expecting it to happen prior to the deadline.

Merely my point was, can we stop acting like these trades are akin to hunting a unicorn and bathing in its blood?

They are not impossible and they are not ALWAYS a bad idea. That's all I've been trying to get at. And for the final time to really drive it home, I do not expect one of these to happen.

I just feel like this "rearranging deck chairs" meme has taken on abit of a life of its own.

I get what your saying. You are correct its not impossible to add those players but it would take munovering on our part to make it work.

I think must people including myself agree with what you feel this team needs to do. I know you wanted it to happen last off season and that you feel that we are spinning around accomplishing very little because we didn't make the changes last year. I think many of us so called patience people just feel that this off season is the more optimal time to make those moves. I think many of us will grab our pitchforks and join you if Chevy sits on his hands and does nothing this summer.

 

[tbcwpg]

i guess that's where we'll just have to disagree.

While they may not have been what'll help a tonne directly, to me the writings been on the wall for this season for the last month.

Finagling a trade that sends a guy like joki or seto out for prospects/picks would help the team long term (though i'm very aware that would be tricky due to cap)

and moving some b prospects/depth picks for a young upgrade in our bottom six (like holland) would help the team now.

Not in major ways, but it is possible to make small smart moves that can have a much bigger impact.


Again, I don't expect anything like this to happen until the trade deadline but moves like that would work, and are possible. Not frequent or likely, but they can be done.

The deadline is likely for moves involving guys like Jokinen or Setoguchi. The Holland trade was born out of necessity for Toronto, and again I don't think this team is closer to the playoffs with Holland-type players. I don't disagree that moves CAN be made, but I think making those kind of lower-end moves right now are just moves for the sake of them. There isn't a great market right now. Picks are a better commodity closer to the draft.

I don't see the need to trade these guys NOW. Setoguchi and/or Jokinen for picks doesn't really do anything right now that wouldn't be accomplished at the deadline, and it sends the message to the team that the season has been given up upon and that rentals are being shipped out already.

 

[Whileee]

The deadline is likely for moves involving guys like Jokinen or Setoguchi. The Holland trade was born out of necessity for Toronto, and again I don't think this team is closer to the playoffs with Holland-type players. I don't disagree that moves CAN be made, but I think making those kind of lower-end moves right now are just moves for the sake of them. There isn't a great market right now. Picks are a better commodity closer to the draft.

I don't see the need to trade these guys NOW. Setoguchi and/or Jokinen for picks doesn't really do anything right now that wouldn't be accomplished at the deadline, and it sends the message to the team that the season has been given up upon and that rentals are being shipped out already.

I agree. There is no point in thinking about moving Seto or Jokinen now, since the return is likley picks (and/or prospects), and most contending or playoff teams don't have cap space now. Some things have worked out for Chevy in terms of the cap (especially signing core players long term before the cap rises), but having to consider trading Seto of Jokinen (pending UFAs) during a season when so many teams are up against the cap is a constraint.

 

[Analyst365]

One has to wonder if Chevy and the Jets push the boat out too far for the players. Doesn't take much to be rewarded with a cushy deal or roster spot and not be pressured in your position.

Fair enough if his hands are tied but it is not our job as fans of a sports team to lie on our backs and make excuses for a soft team.

 

[Grind]

It when you say "moves for the swake of moves" that drives me nuts.

it's not "moves for the sake of moves" trading setoguchi for versteeg is a "move for the sake of a move"

If moving two lesser pieces that we have some depth of (say, prospect D men) for an upgrade in the bottom six (third line lw anyone?) is a "move for the sake of a move" what isn't?

if that's a "move for the sake of a move" then how is moving buff for multiple pieces any differet.

That's it. And yes, surixon we're in complete agreement, and i don't expect any moves prior to the deadline

Furthermore i'd argue yes, that those types of moves are exactly what needs to happen to get us closer to the playoffs (though i'd be targeting young guys with term similar to frolik as playoffs are already a dream). Our top six is looking shored up at this point (llw KSF), i'd argue changes to the bottom six are one of this teams biggest issues.

 

[tbcwpg]

It when you say "moves for the swake of moves" that drives me nuts.

it's not "moves for the sake of moves" trading setoguchi for versteeg is a "move for the sake of a move"

If moving two lesser pieces that we have some depth of (say, prospect D men) for an upgrade in the bottom six (third line lw anyone?) is a "move for the sake of a move" what isn't?

if that's a "move for the sake of a move" then how is moving buff for multiple pieces any differet.

That's it. And yes, surixon we're in complete agreement, and i don't expect any moves prior to the deadline

Furthermore i'd argue yes, that those types of moves are exactly what needs to happen to get us closer to the playoffs (though i'd be targeting young guys with term similar to frolik as playoffs are already a dream). Our top six is looking shored up at this point (llw KSF), i'd argue changes to the bottom six are one of this teams biggest issues.

To me, it's the timing of the move that determines whether it's a move for the sake of it. A Buff trade in late December is just a move for the sake of it, a "shake up". In the offseason, it makes more sense because we'll be able to get better value for the asset since the cap will be up and teams won't have to worry about fitting him in without sending some useless salary back.

Those moves are good moves to make to get the team closer to the playoffs, but making them now puts the buyer at a disadvantage and doesn't put the team closer THIS SEASON. I think we're in basic agreement here, I don't think moving guys in December because the team is struggling is the best course of action.

 

[Grind]

To me, it's the timing of the move that determines whether it's a move for the sake of it. A Buff trade in late December is just a move for the sake of it, a "shake up". In the offseason, it makes more sense because we'll be able to get better value for the asset since the cap will be up and teams won't have to worry about fitting him in without sending some useless salary back.

Those moves are good moves to make to get the team closer to the playoffs, but making them now puts the buyer at a disadvantage and doesn't put the team closer THIS SEASON. I think we're in basic agreement here, I don't think moving guys in December because the team is struggling is the best course of action.

agreed, that you may be able to get better value later, I'm just not willing to assume that it's a "garauntee" that you will. Which i guess is the main fundamental disagreement.

Peter Holland for Blacker and trash is pretty damn good value at any time.

 

[tbcwpg]

agreed, that you may be able to get better value later, I'm just not willing to assume that it's a "garauntee" that you will. Which i guess is the main fundamental disagreement.

Peter Holland for Blacker and trash is pretty damn good value at any time.

It's decent value for Holland, yes, but it wouldn't have happened had Toronto not lost 3 centres to injury at once. It was one of those necessity trades, so I'm not too disappointed that didn't happen.