Change is hard

[Gallatin]

After all these years of coaching darkness - are we capable of changing our angry disolusioned ways and simply enjoying the awesomeness that is the 2016 Pens?

I know we probably are not a serious Cup contender quite yet.

But we are seeing Peak Crosby again!

Kris Letang is fixing all those problems with his offensive game and turning into a superstar!

The team plays hard smart hockey to the bitter end. Even if they don't start so well!

I know the Org. Really screwed us over for like - years. But this is really good stuff folks.

Consider jumping back on board.

Click to read more...

 

[Empoleon8771]

It seems like the Pens have at least gotten a good coach to build around Crosby and Malkin. Now they just need to actually fix the roster. The LW depth and RD depth are both not nearly good enough, the Pens still need a 1st line LWer (if we move out Kunitz, we'd need a 3rd line LWer too) and top-4 RD for me to think they'll do any damage in the playoffs. They're well set going into next year in a lot of places, their C depth (hopefully Crosby-Malkin-Fehr-Cullen), RW depth (hopefully Hornqvist-Kessel-Sprong-Rust), LD depth (Maatta-Dumoulin-Pouliot) and G depth (Fleury-Murray) are all very good. They just need to fix the LW depth and find another RD (either an upgrade on Daley or a physical bottom pair guy).

 

[Fordy]

i think everyone acknowledges these things. for me, if they would just quit jerking plots around i would have pretty much zero complaints. sullivan has changed a lot, but the few things he hasn't changed or has changed negatively are kind of some really obvious things

even in the middle of a sick comeback you still have to say "wtf" when you see kunitz and crosby starting the 4 on 4

 

[Jacob]

I think Sullivan is doing a good job of learning from the mistakes of his 2 predecessors. He's not a great coach but he's no dummy and I think his somewhat aggressive personality is a good fit for this team right now.

 

[td_ice]

He's got Sid going to tough, hard traffic areas. Which Sullivan said he told Sid that is where he has to be. Sid was playing a soft perimeter game prior to Sullivan, during the MJ era.

Glad to see Sid back!

 

[Gallatin]

It seems like the Pens have at least gotten a good coach to build around Crosby and Malkin. Now they just need to actually fix the roster. The LW depth and RD depth are both not nearly good enough, the Pens still need a 1st line LWer (if we move out Kunitz, we'd need a 3rd line LWer too) and top-4 RD for me to think they'll do any damage in the playoffs. They're well set going into next year in a lot of places, their C depth (hopefully Crosby-Malkin-Fehr-Cullen), RW depth (hopefully Hornqvist-Kessel-Sprong-Rust), LD depth (Maatta-Dumoulin-Pouliot) and G depth (Fleury-Murray) are all very good. They just need to fix the LW depth and find another RD (either an upgrade on Daley or a physical bottom pair guy).

Lots of good points here. Still - all I am saying is I think it's honestly appropriate for serious fans like us to let go some of our frustrations, and just enjoy hockey again.

It's not fixed yet, plenty of work to due still. But things are changing big-time!

 

[Gallatin]

i think everyone acknowledges these things. for me, if they would just quit jerking plots around i would have pretty much zero complaints. sullivan has changed a lot, but the few things he hasn't changed or has changed negatively are kind of some really obvious things

even in the middle of a sick comeback you still have to say "wtf" when you see kunitz and crosby starting the 4 on 4

Yes Kunitz only sucks half as bad as he did the last year. It's not perfect by any means, just a lot better than its been for many years.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

With Cole and Kunitz gone next year, I wanna see:

Boedker-Crosby-Horny
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Bonino-Fehr-Sprong
Plotnikov-Cullen-Rust

Maatta-Letang
Dumo-Demers??
Pouliot-Daley

Fleury
Murray

 

[Empoleon8771]

With Cole and Kunitz gone next year, I wanna see:

Boedker-Crosby-Horny
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Bonino-Fehr-Sprong
Plotnikov-Cullen-Rust

Maatta-Letang
Dumo-Demers??
Pouliot-Daley

Fleury
Murray

A. Boedker isn't a LWer, he's a RWer
B. Bonino isn't a LWer, he's a center
C. There's no chance in hell Plotnikov re-signs here
D. Pouliot-Daley would be an awful pair, they're too similar of players
E. We probably couldn't afford that roster cap wise.

 

[Asuna]

A. Boedker isn't a LWer, he's a RWer

why do you keep saying that?

 

[Empoleon8771]

why do you keep saying that?

Because it's true? That's what Coyotes fans are saying. Boedker plays RW with Vermette and Rieder right now and isn't strong on LW. All of the most common lines he has been on this season have him on RW (either Domi-Vermette-Boedker, Rieder-Vermette-Boedker or Domi-Chipchura-Boedker).

http://leftwinglock.com/line-combin...?team=arizona-coyotes&strength=EV&gametype=GD

 

[Asuna]

Because it's true? That's what Coyotes fans are saying. Boedker plays RW with Vermette and Rieder right now and isn't strong on LW.

I thought I saw you mention that before, but I wasn't sure. Thx

 

[Empoleon8771]

I thought I saw you mention that before, but I wasn't sure. Thx

I didn't know that until a few days ago. I just looked at the most common lines for the Coyotes this year and there isn't a single one with him on LW (the most common ones are Domi-Vermette-Boedker and Rieder-Vermette-Boedker). I don't know if that means he can't play LW, but Coyotes fans saying he can't play LW makes me think he can't.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

A. Boedker isn't a LWer, he's a RWer
B. Bonino isn't a LWer, he's a center
C. There's no chance in hell Plotnikov re-signs here
D. Pouliot-Daley would be an awful pair, they're too similar of players
E. We probably couldn't afford that roster cap wise.

Boedker was a LW last year, I didn't know he was RW my bad.

Then we can trade Bonino for a 2nd and play Bennett LW

Play Kuhn or Wilson in the 4th line LW instead of Plots

Daley and Pouliot wouldn't be an ideal pair, but I think it could work

Idk if we will have enough space either, but it would be close. Maybe play Pouliot with Dumo and find a bottom pair Dman to play with Daley?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Boedker was a LW last year, I didn't know he was RW my bad.

Then we can trade Bonino for a 2nd and play Bennett LW

Play Kuhn or Wilson in the 4th line LW instead of Plots

Daley and Pouliot wouldn't be an ideal pair, but I think it could work

Idk if we will have enough space either, but it would be close. Maybe play Pouliot with Dumo and find a bottom pair Dman to play with Daley?

I can't find the Coyotes lines for last year, so I don't know if he played LW last year. Behindthenet doesn't have data for the Coyotes for the last 2 years and leftwinglock doesn't have data before this year. Relying on Bennett to be healthy at this point is foolish IMO, the Pens can't rely on him to be any more than a 13th forward due to his injury issues. I'd personally look to move Bonino for a 3rd line LWer, someone like Raffl for example.

I wouldn't mind Kuhnhackl or Wilson on the 4th line, but I would want better than either of them for that spot. Rust and Cullen are both great, but I would rather have someone closer to their speeds to finish off that line. I don't think Wilson or Kuhnhackl have that speed. Pouliot-Daley would put either Poo or Daley in a position where they'd have to be the defensive guy on that pair, neither of which would be a good option. Pouliot on the 2nd pair with Dumoulin means you can't use Dumoulin in a shutdown role, which is what he should be used in. The best option IMO is Dumoulin-Letang as the top pair and shutdown pair and Maatta-Daley as the 2nd pair.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Boedker was a LW last year, I didn't know he was RW my bad.

Then we can trade Bonino for a 2nd and play Bennett LW

Play Kuhn or Wilson in the 4th line LW instead of Plots

Daley and Pouliot wouldn't be an ideal pair, but I think it could work

Idk if we will have enough space either, but it would be close. Maybe play Pouliot with Dumo and find a bottom pair Dman to play with Daley?

I really don't have a problem with the Dumo - Daley paring. It's not a pure shutdown pairing anymore, but it's a very good two way pairing. Maatta - Letang can pick up more shut down minutes in this case. Pouliot needs a steady partner on the 3rd pair, and we may not have that quite yet. Cole and Lovejoy are passable fill ins, and teams have won the cup with worse players at their #6.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

I can't find the Coyotes lines for last year, so I don't know if he played LW last year. Behindthenet doesn't have data for the Coyotes for the last 2 years and leftwinglock doesn't have data before this year. Relying on Bennett to be healthy at this point is foolish IMO, the Pens can't rely on him to be any more than a 13th forward due to his injury issues. I'd personally look to move Bonino for a 3rd line LWer, someone like Raffl for example.

I wouldn't mind Kuhnhackl or Wilson on the 4th line, but I would want better than either of them for that spot. Rust and Cullen are both great, but I would rather have someone closer to their speeds to finish off that line. I don't think Wilson or Kuhnhackl have that speed. Pouliot-Daley would put either Poo or Daley in a position where they'd have to be the defensive guy on that pair, neither of which would be a good option. Pouliot on the 2nd pair with Dumoulin means you can't use Dumoulin in a shutdown role, which is what he should be used in. The best option IMO is Dumoulin-Letang as the top pair and shutdown pair and Maatta-Daley as the 2nd pair.

Yea Bonino for a 3LW is good with me preferably someone who could slide into 2nd line if need (like Hagelin).

 

[Penguinsyay]

I'm glad to see this thread. I've been very happy with the team's improvements and I have enjoyed watching them play lately. I limit my time on these boards because the negativity and sarcasm starts to get tiresome. I'm not oblivious...I'm aware of the Plotnikov/Kunitz situations and things like that which are not ideal, but the change in the team has still been the difference between night and day. The Pens were frustrating to watch earlier this season and last. Under Johnston the idea of coming back from behind to win wasn't even a consideration and I'd just turn off the TV and do something else in those situations. There would be no fighting adversity or winning despite injuries, because nobody on the ice seemed to give a crap anymore. Johnston would have been the death of our star players, and the fact that I would sometimes want the Pens to lose just so he would be fired faster is a strong reminder of how crappy those times were. The Scuderi/Daley trade also restored some of my faith in JR, who I think can still make this year's team and next year's team into legit contenders.

Looking forward to some fun hockey and inflated Crosby stats.

 

[Steel Winning]

As Bad as it would be, is there anyway that GMJR decides to go out with a bang and trades for Ladd and Byfuglien hoping one resigns?
It would destroy the future and am by no means advocating it, but:

Ladd - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Kunitz - Bonino - Bennet??
Fehr - Cullen - Rust

Maata - Letang
Dumoulin - Buff
Pouliot - Daley

MAF

Would be a pretty wicked lineup

 

[Asuna]

How would he get those guys exactly?

 

[Gallatin]

I think Sullivan is doing a good job of learning from the mistakes of his 2 predecessors. He's not a great coach but he's no dummy and I think his somewhat aggressive personality is a good fit for this team right now.

This.

Sullivan is a solid coach that is agressive. That's what this team needed. Although I am curious what's behind Letang's dramatic improvements...

 

[Steel Winning]

How would he get those guys exactly?

He would have to destroy the future.
Sprong, the 1st Toronto doesn't get, and 2 2nds, then hope one of Buff/Ladd signs

Would that roster win the cup? IDK, but wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Asuna]

He would have to destroy the future.
Sprong, the 1st Toronto doesn't get, and 2 2nds, then hope one of Buff/Ladd signs

Would that roster win the cup? IDK, but wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

I just don't think that would be enough to get them both.

 

[Steel Winning]

I just don't think that would be enough to get them both.

All in one go, they would probably do it. Sprong + 2nd is equivalent to what they would get for one of them, And then a 1st and 2nd is probably fair value for the other

 

[IcedCapp]

I disagree. Change is pretty easy.

The Pens' issue has never been making changes. At the end of the Bylsma era, they were one kind of team. They immediately changed and became something worse (sorry, I still hate Dan, don't worry).

Sullivan took over and immediately made changes to the culture.

The Pens' issue has been complacency. They woke up one day and had all sorts of problems that had just festered and festered and festered.

Sure, the roster still needs fixing, but I feel the foundation work is already moving in the right direction