Proposal: CGY - WPG (Monahan - Scheifele)

[Schred]

You can tell this was written by a Calgary fan without even looking at the profile pic...

You don’t trade a prime age franchise level 1C for a less productive winger. You just don’t.

Beyond just the values being skewed, this trade doesn’t make sense roster-wise: Winnipeg actually is rather shallow down the middle and has something of a glut of talent on the wings. When you write trades like this you actually have to make sure they make sense for BOTH rosters, not just for the team you are a fan of.

Not disagreeing, but Monahan is not a winger lol.

 

[JPeeper]

You can tell this was written by a Calgary fan without even looking at the profile pic...

You don’t trade a prime age franchise level 1C for a less productive winger. You just don’t.

Beyond just the values being skewed, this trade doesn’t make sense roster-wise: Winnipeg actually is rather shallow down the middle and has something of a glut of talent on the wings. When you write trades like this you actually have to make sure they make sense for BOTH rosters, not just for the team you are a fan of.

If you're going to bash the OP for being a fanboy, then at least don't make yourself look like a fool in the rest of your post. Monahan is a center and is one of the top face-off men in the league.

 

[NoName]

Not disagreeing, but Monahan is not a winger lol.

Yikes... I shouldn’t have made such a screw up. For some reason I had it in my head rn that he was a centre and didn’t bother confirming that. Even had him listed in some of my “top centres this season” articles from 2018-2019, but I guess I just had a brain fart today. Sorry about that. My error aside, it is still not a good trade value-wise for the Jets.

 

[Adam da bomb]

If you're going to bash the OP for being a fanboy, then at least don't make yourself look like a fool in the rest of your post. Monahan is a center and is one of the top face-off men in the league.

Yep the jets should make this trade because Monahan is better at face off.

 

[TS Quint]

For sure. You're correct. I don't want to move him period, but his value isn't where it's going to be in my opinion in a year or two. I remember a bunch of people saying Gaudreau was worth a 2nd at most before he came into the league as well. It wasn't that they were necessarily wrong, just sometimes you see guys with really high upside and moving them would be stupid.

Are you looking for a list of players who didn’t live up to the hype? Because that’s a heck of a lot longer list than the one guy you picked who exceeded. We can start with Sam Bennett. I’m not crapping on any players here but the logic you are using. Never mind we are talking about a 22 year old Defenseman who hasn’t played half a season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Scheifele is a franchise 1C. He is substantially more valuable then Monahan.

I don't know if he is quite on that level, but he certainly is a legitimate 1C, though he is miles ahead of Monahan.

I would consider guys like McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Eichel, Mackinnon, Barkov, and Matthews as franchise centers.

I think in order to be a franchise C, you have to have be a multi-dimensional threat. I don't think Scheifele has enough dimensions to his game to be a "franchise" center. I think the particular dimension he is missing is his ability to carry the puck and dictate the pace, but he also isn't the strongest defensive center (in part because he lacks a bit of agility and foot speed).

He is a solid 1C though, and one of the best PP triggermen in the league.

 

[NoName]

I would consider guys like McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Eichel, Mackinnon, Barkov, and Matthews as franchise centers.

No, Scheifele is not quite on the level of some of those guys, but you are kind of listing Generational Players (McDavid and formerly Crosby and Malkin) and probably the next four best centres in the NHL.

Scheifele, (along with guys like Aho, Barzal, Point, Bergeron) may be a small step below some of those guys there (although not as much as some casual fans assume, just because he plays in Winnipeg and thus flies under the radar), and are capable of anchoring the first line for a decade as the best player on a team that is a legitimate Cup contender. For me that fits the description as a "Franchise Centre". There are very few situations where it is a good idea for a team to trade out such a valuable player.

 

[RCAFguy]

Jets are thin down the middle and you think its a good idea for them to downgrade at center???? That is unless you put absolutely zero thought into why the Jets would even consider this, then it makes perfect sense.

 

[Volica]

Terrible base for Winnipeg as they downgrade and lose their best player.

Now, if we want to talk Laine/Monahan; maybe there’s a better fit? Winnipeg gets a guy who can centre their second line, Flames get a triggerman for their top line?

I’m sure values are off according to each fan base, but I could see with additions some needs met for both teams.

 

[RCAFguy]

Terrible base for Winnipeg as they downgrade and lose their best player.

Now, if we want to talk Laine/Monahan; maybe there’s a better fit? Winnipeg gets a guy who can centre their second line, Flames get a triggerman for their top line?

I’m sure values are off according to each fan base, but I could see with additions some needs met for both teams.

a Laine - Monahan+, base would have been a possibility prior to Stastny coming back. Now Its extremely unlikely. Perhaps revisit it next off season if Laine doesn't get traded prior too.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Man. I'm just imagining how badly Schiefele would get along with Johnny Gaudreau. First red flag: Johnny doesn't take his nutrition seriously. Schief would lose his mind

 

[jetsforever]

Trading Scheifele would have to be for an overpayment since in addition to being a #1C, he's a great pro (always improving) and enjoys Winnipeg (signed a cheap long-term deal).

 

[Double Dion]

Scheifele is a franchise 1C. He is substantially more valuable then Monahan.

Is he? He's a 1C, but franchise 1C is probably pushing it. I think of guys like Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon, Bergeron, Toews, Kopitar ect as franchise centers. I don't think Scheifele belongs in that group.

 

[Double Dion]

Are you looking for a list of players who didn’t live up to the hype? Because that’s a heck of a lot longer list than the one guy you picked who exceeded. We can start with Sam Bennett. I’m not crapping on any players here but the logic you are using. Never mind we are talking about a 22 year old Defenseman who hasn’t played half a season.

Sure, there's lots of guys who don't live up to the hype. Bennett and Laine are good examples of that from these 2 franchises. I just think that people outside Calgary will have a very different assessment of Valimaki a year from now. It's why I wouldn't want to sell low on him.

 

[wabagee]

Sure, there's lots of guys who don't live up to the hype. Bennett and Laine are good examples of that from these 2 franchises. I just think that people outside Calgary will have a very different assessment of Valimaki a year from now. It's why I wouldn't want to sell low on him.

You are so disingenuous. For someone with so much to say, you must know more about the players than you let on.

 

[rubikscube]

Is he? He's a 1C, but franchise 1C is probably pushing it. I think of guys like Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon, Bergeron, Toews, Kopitar ect as franchise centers. I don't think Scheifele belongs in that group.

Of course he is. He's been a ppg player for 4+ years and anchors the whole team.
In 2017-18 he set an NHL record for playoff goals and they didn't even make the finals

 

[Yukon Joe]

It seems like a culture killing move for the Jets. I think it would emotionally drain the team. What would Wheeler say?

This.

Scheifele has shown nothing but loyalty to the Jets. Remember they literally announced the team name when they selected him in 2011. He signed long-term on a team-friendly deal. He's going to be the team captain one day. To just casually trade him in order to pick up a defensive prospect and a replacement center is not how TNSE does business. It has nothing to do with value of the trade.

 

[Double Dion]

You are so disingenuous. For someone with so much to say, you must know more about the players than you let on.

Not sure if you know what disingenuous means. How is thinking Valimaki will be a good player or that Laine and Bennett haven't lived up the hype disingenuous? Use smaller words you know the meaning of.

 

[Double Dion]

Of course he is. He's been a ppg player for 4+ years and anchors the whole team.
In 2017-18 he set an NHL record for playoff goals and they didn't even make the finals

Sure, he's a #1 center and a good player, but I wouldn't put him in the category of the other players I listed. It's really semantics I guess. I wouldn't call Gaudreau a franchise player either, but he's a PPG guy who anchors our offense.

 

[wabagee]

Not sure if you know what disingenuous means. How is thinking Valimaki will be a good player or that Laine and Bennett haven't lived up the hype disingenuous? Use smaller words you know the meaning of.

Laine has a ton of points for his early age and your putting him beside a bust.

 

[Double Dion]

Laine has a ton of points for his early age and your putting him beside a bust.

Neither guy is a bust. Both haven't lived up to projections. Laine was supposed to be Ovechkin. Bennett was supposed to be Kesler. Also, I know which one I'd take in a playoff series and it isn't Laine.

 

[wabagee]

Neither guy is a bust. Both haven't lived up to projections. Laine was supposed to be Ovechkin. Bennett was supposed to be Kesler. Also, I know which one I'd take in a playoff series and it isn't Laine.

Lol, good thing your not a GM!

 

[Double Dion]

Lol, good thing your not a GM!

Bennett has more goals per game in the playoffs, which is the thing Laine is supposed to be better at than Bennett. I don't think it's even a conversation who is better defensively and more physical. Don't read this as my saying Bennett is better, I'm just saying he has unquestionably been better in the playoffs. I'm saying neither of them are a bust, but both haven't lived up to the draft hype.

 

[wabagee]

Bennett has more goals per game in the playoffs, which is the thing Laine is supposed to be better at than Bennett. I don't think it's even a conversation who is better defensively and more physical. Don't read this as my saying Bennett is better, I'm just saying he has unquestionably been better in the playoffs. I'm saying neither of them are a bust, but both haven't lived up to the draft hype.

First year Laine exceeded the hype, Last year he showed off his play making for his shitty coach. Give the kid some time, he’s scored more goals in a season than Bennet has gotten points.

 

[Double Dion]

First year Laine exceeded the hype, Last year he showed off his play making for his shitty coach. Give the kid some time, he’s scored more goals in a season than Bennet has gotten points.

Again, I never said he was a bust. Just that he didn't live up to the draft hype. You were the one calling bonafide NHLers a bust. If you remember during Laine's draft and 1st year there were very real conversations about who was better Laine or Matthews and tons of "next Ovechkin" comments. Admittedly, I see Laine in a more negative light than most. His game really lacks detail and there are large stretches where he looks disinterested in doing anything but firing one timers from the top of the circle. I prefer guys like Lowry who give you everything they've got and have more detailed games.