Confirmed Trade: [CGY/EDM] James Neal for Milan Lucic (12.5% retained) and a 2020 conditional 3rd round pick Part 3

[Cup or Bust]

Well he put up with Looch for at least a full seasons worth of games so I don't think so.

Compared to Lucic, anyone is upgrade. The buyout is an upgrade over Lucic on the ice, so there is always that.

 

[foshizzle]

Protector? When have I talked about Lucic being a protector at all? I don’t even believe that deterrents actually deter anything. I watched a few games since the trade happened and was impressed with his overall game, with and without the puck. He didn’t even throw a punch in any of the games I saw. I was pleasantly surprised to see that he wasn’t just the face puncher I was expecting.

You were impressed with his game? Really? What part? Clearly you are seeing something that 98% of hockey viewers are not seeing, including his coaches, and actually, including Lucic himself.

 

[foshizzle]

[After listening to Treliving's interview on the Fan yesterday, I am 100% convinced Lucic has already agreed to waive his NMC for expansion.

That means nothing. Seattle has to be willing to take him. Why would they take a 34 year old Lucic vs one the younger players on your team? They know the Flames would want to be free of that contract, and it'll cost a nice tidy sum.

 

[Remember2004]

No he can't, he also can't be bought out. This is why Oiler fans are so happy - we have all this fleixilbity with neal if he doesn't work out.

There is no fleixilbity with Lucic.

I think it looks better PR wise if you guys buy him out etc than if we did. Especially only after a year signing him. It doesn't look much better that we was traded though. A Lucic Flames jersey is in the future now

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Protector? When have I talked about Lucic being a protector at all? I don’t even believe that deterrents actually deter anything. I watched a few games since the trade happened and was impressed with his overall game, with and without the puck. He didn’t even throw a punch in any of the games I saw. I was pleasantly surprised to see that he wasn’t just the face puncher I was expecting.

Weird how he becomes a flame as suddenly you’re a fan of Lucic when all you did was trash on how terrible he was.

 

[Ducksauce]

That means nothing. Seattle has to be willing to take him. Why would they take a 34 year old Lucic vs one the younger players on your team? They know the Flames would want to be free of that contract, and it'll cost a nice tidy sum.

That isn't the argument- the benefit is that they wouldn't have to use a protection spot on him and could use it on a different forward.

It's actually a benefit that Seattle wouldn't take him because it means he is more likely to waive his clause knowing he won't get picked up.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

That means nothing. Seattle has to be willing to take him. Why would they take a 34 year old Lucic vs one the younger players on your team? They know the Flames would want to be free of that contract, and it'll cost a nice tidy sum.

Waiving the NMC means Calgary would't need waste a spot protecting him. It has nothing to do with Seattle actually taking him, everyone knows that won't happen.

 

[Rubi]

That means nothing. Seattle has to be willing to take him. Why would they take a 34 year old Lucic vs one the younger players on your team? They know the Flames would want to be free of that contract, and it'll cost a nice tidy sum.

The point in having Lucic waive his NMC for the expansion draft is so Calgary will not have to automatically place him on their protected list thus freeing that spot up to protect someone else. Calgary knows that the chances that Seattle takes Lucic are between slim and none and heavily weighted on the none side.
Without Lucic's NMC in play Calgary is free to protect either 10 players (7 fwds & 3 d-men) or eight players (4 fwds & 4 d-men) of their choosing instead of having one of those fwd spots automatically assigned to Lucic.

 

[nturn06]

Look at per game....

You also need to look at Neal abysmal playoff performance.

My point was that if you are going to make the point that Lucic's numbers were inflated by ice-time, then Neal's numbers are even more inflated. Neal was consistently gifted prime ice time to "get him going".

You guys are hilarious... You want to compare points per season, and ice time per game....

 

[King In The North]

Haven't checked if this was posted but:

- Treliving interview suggests there is an agreement to waive the NMC come Expansion Draft.
- Flames likely honoring it so that Lucic could avoid being waived, demoted or controlling where he'd be traded etc.

 

[blankall]

You guys are hilarious... You want to compare points per season, and ice time per game....

Yes. When you talk about how many opportunities a player is given you look at their ice time per game. This reflects how much of their game is spent on the PP, what lines they are being deployed on, etc....

 

[Rubi]

Saw this post on reddit which shows every goal/assist that "The Real Deal" James Neal scored last year. Shout out to itoadaso1 who obviously put a lot of work into compiling this list of videos.

 

[nturn06]

Look at per game....

You also need to look at Neal abysmal playoff performance.

My point was that if you are going to make the point that Lucic's numbers were inflated by ice-time, then Neal's numbers are even more inflated. Neal was consistently gifted prime ice time to "get him going".

Sure, Lucic produced at .25 PPG, while Neal produced at .30PPG, that is about 20% more.

I'll give you the playoffs bit though, Lucic was amazing in the playoffs....

As for the Linemates, if I am reading the Frozen tool( Line Combinations - Frozen Tools) correctly, Neal played about 10% of the time on ice with Gaudreau. Lucic played about 11% of his time with McD. So, would you like to reconsider, or are you gonna keep making completely unsustained claims?

 

[nturn06]

Yes. When you talk about how many opportunities a player is given you look at their ice time per game. This reflects how much of their game is spent on the PP, what lines they are being deployed on, etc....

OK< so answer me this: how much prime icetime did Neal get and how much did Lucic get? Stats please.... You'll be surrpised....

But hey I get it, the "untreadable, pylon, worst player/contract in the league" suddenly became a solid player......

It is funny that we all thought that Lucic needed to have another 50 points season to rebound, all it actually took was a trade to the Flames...

 

[Rubi]

OK< so answer me this: how much prime icetime did Neal get and how much did Lucic get? Stats please.... You'll be surrpised....

But hey I get it, the "untreadable, pylon, worst player/contract in the league" suddenly became a solid player......

It is funny that we all thought that Lucic needed to have another 50 points season to rebound, all it actually took was a trade to the Flames...

"Untradeable, pylon, worst player/contract in the league" is still better for the Flames than the "Real Deal". Not looking for Lucic to "rebound" to make this deal a success for Calgary. If Lucic plays for Calgary the way he played for Edmonton its an improvement on the way Neal played for Calgary. Calgary doesn't need Lucic to score goals... we have plenty of other players that can do that.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Could have just bought Neal out and been done with it.

 

[CraigsList]

My goodness, can we please lock this thread up? Can't believe we're almost at part 4 when 95% of the garbage on here is just, "Neal sucks lol, enjoy!" And "Lucic is garbage, have fun with him!". How about we all just wait and see how the two players do on YOUR team because frankly that's all that really matters, who cares about how they did in the past.

Because that is not the Alberta kind of way. These teams will bicker over the stupidest things.

 

[CraigsList]

I think there's a strong possibility that both with flourish in their new roles.

The Oilers needed a top 6 forward. Neal might have some gas left in him for the first couple of years.

The Flames needed a strong physical presence that won't take ****. We have been a soft team since the departure of McGrattan.

 

[Rubi]

Could have just bought Neal out and been done with it.

That wasn't an option for Brad Treliving. Flames ownership refused to pay Neal $15.333 million (8 yrs x $1,916,667) to go away.
They prefer to pay Lucic $13 million to actually play for the club.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

So for the Oilers this amounts to them taking on a little around a few hundred thousand extra on the cap for this year in the hopes Neal can bounce back?

If not they can buy him out the following year and save roughly 4 million per over the next few? decent sized gamble.

 

[blankall]

Sure, Lucic produced at .25 PPG, while Neal produced at .30PPG, that is about 20% more.

I'll give you the playoffs bit though, Lucic was amazing in the playoffs....

As for the Linemates, if I am reading the Frozen tool( Line Combinations - Frozen Tools) correctly, Neal played about 10% of the time on ice with Gaudreau. Lucic played about 11% of his time with McD. So, would you like to reconsider, or are you gonna keep making completely unsustained claims?

I was actually responding to a post that said Lucic's points this year were inflated due to linemates and ice time. I responded by stating that Neal's numbers were likely even more inflated, as he had even better opportunities.

 

[blankall]

So for the Oilers this amounts to them taking on a little around a few hundred thousand extra on the cap for this year in the hopes Neal can bounce back?

If not they can buy him out the following year and save roughly 4 million per over the next few? decent sized gamble.

The Oilers would be saving closer to $3 million per year, but then the cap lasts twice as long. Lucic's contract was also front loaded and based largely on bonuses. The Oilers already paid Lucic his bonus this year.

The Flames ownership was also not willing to buyout Neal.

One thing to consider is that the Flames may be able to trade Lucic again with retention, which could put them ahead. Lucic would have to waive his NTC again.

 

[blankall]

That wasn't an option for Brad Treliving. Flames ownership refused to pay Neal $15.3 million to go away.
They prefer to pay Lucic $21 million to actually play for the club.

Lucic is not owed another $21 million. The Oilers paid out his bonus for this year and retained. Lucic is owed another $16 million, but the Oilers also retained salary and will have to pay a portion of that $16 million.

 

[McFlash97]

See this is the thing...Neal needs to have a heavy rebound to have a net neutral effect. He's not, currently, a massive upgrade on anything. Neal's shot was attrocious last year. His hands were Stone. He fumbled and gave up the puck constantly.

Anything the Oilers get for Lucic is literally an upgrade. Just by subtracting a player with 0 stick handling ability , terrible wrist shot , slugs his way around the ice automatically takes the piano out of our top 3 lines back. He was all wrong for the Oilers. Edmonton is trying to build an uptempo quick counter attack team and Neal is an easy upgrade on Lucic for that. Lucic might win a few more fights. Good on you Calgary.

 

[blankall]

Anything the Oilers get for Lucic is literally an upgrade. Just by subtracting a player with 0 stick handling ability , terrible wrist shot , slugs his way around the ice automatically takes the piano out of our top 3 lines back. He was all wrong for the Oilers. Edmonton is trying to build an uptempo quick counter attack team and Neal is an easy upgrade on Lucic for that. Lucic might win a few more fights. Good on you Calgary.

Look at the actual stats posted a couple page back. Neal had a worse negative effect on his team than Lucic did. So once again, Neal needs to rebound for the Oilers to come out neutral. I actually think that Neal will rebound slightly.