Confirmed Trade: [CBJ/WPG] P-L Dubois and '22 3rd for P. Laine (26% retained) and J. Roslovic [PART II] (MOD WARNING)

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majormajor

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Jets second line is on fire. Not sure where we are putting Dubois in this line-up.

Copp - Stastny - Ehlers
Perreault - Dubois - Lowry
Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler
Harkins - Gustafsson - Appleton

Dubois isn't the type of player that needs a ton of help to drive results so if you need to play him with some lesser wingers while you ride the hot hand then go for it.
 
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TSA0402

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Copp - Stastny - Ehlers
Perreault - Dubois - Lowry
Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler
Harkins - Gustafsson - Appleton

Dubois isn't the type of player that needs a ton of help to drive results so if you need to play him with some lesser wingers while you ride the hot hand then go for it.

Absolutely right. People assume he needs top line players to contribute to his success, but in general the top line has been more balanced in Columbus(aka PLD has carried at least one linemate who didn't belong on the top 3).
 

majormajor

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Absolutely right. People assume he needs top line players to contribute to his success, but in general the top line has been more balanced in Columbus(aka PLD has carried at least one linemate who didn't belong on the top 3).

At least one, yes. Bjorkstrand was the only topline caliber winger on the Jackets last year, and he got injured for a while. As did the next three or four best options. Dubois was playing with Milano and Bemstrom for weeks, and another stretch with Robinson and Texier. Both of those lines were good, at least outscoring their opponents, which is more than you can usually say about Scheifele's line. :laugh:
 
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NoName

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I know the Jets need help down the middle, but they traded out the most talented guy in the deal, and a solid 3rd liner AND retained salary. Surely they could have done a bit better then this?
 

majormajor

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Ovechkin has been hitting 50s pretty constantly in this era. Lineups change too. Don't underestimate the effect of finally becoming the go to guy on offense. It's a different situation than in Winnipeg.

Lineup is less of a factor. Laine has scored with lesser talent around him, people who have understood that they should try and get some room for Patty to shoot. He wants to be the head chef, and his history suggests he excels when relied on. So this should work well with Jackets. Laine lacked minutes and finisher role, they have demand in both.

What line are you referring to?

He did best with Stastny and Ehlers and that isn't lesser talent. Andrew Copp is actually scoring at a faster clip than Laine did with them.

Well it's not like you're making any sort of arguments against it other than an emotional one. What I said was based on verifiable evidence.

You can always feel otherwise but I just stated facts. Laine is more accurate and his shots are faster in velocity. Those are measurable and have been measured.

Let's just remember that shot quality is just one aspect of scoring ability, which is just one aspect of overall ability. Brandon Pirri has one of the best shots in the NHL, or rather he would if he was good enough to play in the NHL.
 
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TSA0402

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At least one, yes. Bjorkstrand was the only topline caliber winger on the Jackets last year, and he got injured for a while. As did the next three or four best options. Dubois was playing with Milano and Bemstrom for weeks, and another stretch with Robinson and Texier. Both of those lines were good, at least outscoring their opponents, which is more than you can usually say about Scheifele's line. :laugh:

The best part about this take, is that people assume that Columbus fans know nothing about Laine and Dubois is a 2C! :D
 

majormajor

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I know the Jets need help down the middle, but they traded out the most talented guy in the deal, and a solid 3rd liner AND retained salary. Surely they could have done a bit better then this?

- Usually when people say "they could have done better" that just reflects the fact that we don't see what the GMs see. You really think Chevy is dumb and passed on a better player than Dubois?

- The market for Laine was smaller than the market for Dubois. Laine wants to be paid like a superstar and he really isn't one yet. He has superstar talent and has fans like a superstar but he doesn't carry his team. Kind of the opposite at 5v5! Both of the Jets top six lines were better when Wheeler was on them instead of Laine. So GMs are seeing this and seeing his demands, and they know how risky that is. No one is taking him on without gambling on big improvements. I can imagine if not for Dubois' trade request that the return might have been much worse, perhaps only futures packages.

- I'm also guessing here that you're undervaluing Dubois. The analytics folks seem unanimous that Dubois has been the better player over the last two seasons. In the Athletic they said his closest comparable is Barkov when he was that age. I can also see a pre-breakout Getzlaf or Kopitar.

- Both players have a ton of upside left, but the Jackets definitely took on the riskier asset. I tend to think the Jets won this deal, and giving up Roslovic was a concession to that fact, but doesn't actually even it out in any meaningful sense, because Roslovic is worth next to nothing compared to the other two.
 

Finnflash

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- Usually when people say "they could have done better" that just reflects the fact that we don't see what the GMs see. You really think Chevy is dumb and passed on a better player than Dubois?

- The market for Laine was smaller than the market for Dubois. Laine wants to be paid like a superstar and he really isn't one yet. He has superstar talent and has fans like a superstar but he doesn't carry his team. Kind of the opposite at 5v5! Both of the Jets top six lines were better when Wheeler was on them instead of Laine. So GMs are seeing this and seeing his demands, and they know how risky that is. No one is taking him on without gambling on big improvements. I can imagine if not for Dubois' trade request that the return might have been much worse, perhaps only futures packages.

- I'm also guessing here that you're undervaluing Dubois. The analytics folks seem unanimous that Dubois has been the better player over the last two seasons. In the Athletic they said his closest comparable is Barkov when he was that age. I can also see a pre-breakout Getzlaf or Kopitar.

- Both players have a ton of upside left, but the Jackets definitely took on the riskier asset. I tend to think the Jets won this deal, and giving up Roslovic was a concession to that fact, but doesn't actually even it out in any meaningful sense, because Roslovic is worth next to nothing compared to the other two.
Very good analysis.

the only thing I would say is that the one game we seen Laine play this year he looked very improved 5 on 5. If he keeps it up he will be dominant on your power play and 5 x 5.

Also I still think Roslovic will be very good. If he can be put in a spot where he is the line driver and not deferring I think he will shine.
 
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Adam da bomb

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Like most Jet fans, I will be watching and cheering for Patty and Jack to do well for your team.

Why wouldn't we, they were good guys while they were in Winnipeg.

Of course, should we meet in the playoffs..... we won't be cheering as hard for them. Lol

Not sure what to expect from Pierre-Luc, but our top six is pretty sick!

Good Luck Columbus fans!
We are all rooting for them but we also don’t want them to be 50 goal scorers we do in the end want to have got the better end of the deal. If laine sticks as a 30 goal scorer demanding 12 mil I’ll be happy.
Also they were good guys who refused to sign team friendly deals only thing worse is Trouba.
 

Adam da bomb

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Very good analysis.

the only thing I would say is that the one game we seen Laine play this year he looked very improved 5 on 5. If he keeps it up he will be dominant on your power play and 5 x 5.

Also I still think Roslovic will be very good. If he can be put in a spot where he is the line driver and not deferring I think he will shine.
He did also then have health problems that seemed reoccurring.
 
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NoName

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- Usually when people say "they could have done better" that just reflects the fact that we don't see what the GMs see. You really think Chevy is dumb and passed on a better player than Dubois?

- The market for Laine was smaller than the market for Dubois. Laine wants to be paid like a superstar and he really isn't one yet. He has superstar talent and has fans like a superstar but he doesn't carry his team. Kind of the opposite at 5v5! Both of the Jets top six lines were better when Wheeler was on them instead of Laine. So GMs are seeing this and seeing his demands, and they know how risky that is. No one is taking him on without gambling on big improvements. I can imagine if not for Dubois' trade request that the return might have been much worse, perhaps only futures packages.

- I'm also guessing here that you're undervaluing Dubois. The analytics folks seem unanimous that Dubois has been the better player over the last two seasons. In the Athletic they said his closest comparable is Barkov when he was that age. I can also see a pre-breakout Getzlaf or Kopitar.

- Both players have a ton of upside left, but the Jackets definitely took on the riskier asset. I tend to think the Jets won this deal, and giving up Roslovic was a concession to that fact, but doesn't actually even it out in any meaningful sense, because Roslovic is worth next to nothing compared to the other two.
You mean the Dubois with the attitude problems who was getting benched? Not sure he is any less of a risk then Laine.



I don't think you could find many shifts like that from Barkov.
 

Johnny HFBOARDS

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I think Torts felt Dubois was better than what Dubois consistently showed. Dubois may be better fit in WPG because they don’t need him to be “the guy” for their offense like CBJ leaned on him to be. Laine may embrace that role in Columbus.
Dubois can be our 4th leading point getter here and it would be a success, his D skills will be very welcomed, it's going to be tough getting to and through the playoffs.
 
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mattihp

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Karpovtsev level shift. He was not a team mate in that shift, but I don't think it is who he is as a player. But it says something about his character.

It reminds me of when I played NHL on a weird Xbox controller for the first time. Couldn't really grasp the odd placement of the analog stick and the buttons were all "wrong" because I never found what I wanted. So after a while I just coasted and kinda tried to get into the way of the puck without acting on it.
 

majormajor

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You mean the Dubois with the attitude problems who was getting benched? Not sure he is any less of a risk then Laine.



I don't think you could find many shifts like that from Barkov.


You also cant find any shifts like that from pre-request Dubois, there was never even a hint of attitude problems.

Maybe this fact is shocking to you as a fan but that had no effect on his trade value.

Don’t expect ‘The Shift’ to deter suitors for Pierre-Luc Dubois - TSN.ca

The reporters that talk to GMs, like Friedman and Lebrun, are finding the suggestion scoffed at.

What the Jackets get out of Laine as an asset is a much bigger mystery than what the Jets get out of Dubois.
 

PhilJets

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Copp - Stastny - Ehlers
Perreault - Dubois - Lowry
Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler
Harkins - Gustafsson - Appleton

Dubois isn't the type of player that needs a ton of help to drive results so if you need to play him with some lesser wingers while you ride the hot hand then go for it.


Its funny you put Scheifele as 3rd C and Wheeler still with him :laugh: its like they are twins

But no Schiefele is not gonna be 3C let alone 2C.

Lets hold the horses.
We wish PLD CAN BE A POINT a game player.
I am hard on Schiefele now but its more on the coach how they use him.
But he still better than Stastny and PLD.
Just cut down the minutes from 26 a game to 20 minutes.
 
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Guffman

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Since we couldn’t get a top pairing D for Laine, perhaps we now can for PLD...
 

TS Quint

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We are all rooting for them but we also don’t want them to be 50 goal scorers we do in the end want to have got the better end of the deal. If laine sticks as a 30 goal scorer demanding 12 mil I’ll be happy.
Also they were good guys who refused to sign team friendly deals only thing worse is Trouba.
So now we have Jet fans throwing out the $12 million dollar figure? What a difference a week makes from when Jet fans would demand proof that he wants $12 million.
 
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jonlin

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Nov 11, 2011
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I think you're full of it.. but I really hope you are right!

I`d argue that Laine infact is more accurate than Ovetchkin. Ovetchin is more agile, drives the net more, faster and shoots way more and closer. Laine has a very accurate shot, but he looses to Ovetchkin in so many categories and that is what makes Ovetchkin the far better player. If Laine starts working his ass off he may get to the same level, even though it isnt an easy task
 
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