Post-Game Talk: Caps vs. Rangers (730PM @ MSG) pt2

[mrwarden]

You guys may be over-complicating the power play issue. Personnel choices aside, which I think were bad, they never really got set up a lot of the time.

 

[Hivemind]

Trotz made more adjustments to the powerplay, both over the course the season and the series, than many are giving him credit for. There's more to the powerplay that personnel decisions and formation. There were a lot of new wrinkles this PP unit threw out that weren't around when Oates was coaching (remember Green's comments about Grabo on the PP after the first game last season?). A lot more cycle plays, willingness to go to the front of the net, and flexibility for the player beneath the goal line.

Even last night, the first attempt we saw Carlson take three shot attempts before they gave it to Ovie. On the next PP, we saw both Backstrom and Brouwer drive the front of the net.

I'll echo what warden said, what gave them tons of issue is the same thing that drives plenty of other powerplays bonkers (and what helped our PK massively), failing to gain the zone. Once they got set up, they could still be dangerous, but the Rangers did a good job preventing them from getting set up.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Ranger fan here. It really kills me that you guys are so down on your team. "nothing in 30 years!!" and stuff like that. I've been a fan since the early 60's. I remember cringing every time i heard "1940". or how about 1 cup in 75 years! When the 90's came around and they got Messier there was finally some optimism. It seems to me that the Caps should also feel this optimism now. You have a goalie that grew by leaps and bounds this year. You have the best all around player, bar none, in the world!! (sorry cindy crosby) one things for sure, they'll never call him Alice Ovechkin. And a hellava coach. Like Messier once told the fans "be patient". With the stud you have for a goaltender it's only a matter of time. Most likely sooner than later.

You are more optimistic than 99% of Caps fans here. We're long overdue for the Cup, but it probably won't happen in the near future. Sabres, Blues, Canucks fans know exactly how we feel.

 

[kicksavedave]

Ranger fan here. It really kills me that you guys are so down on your team. "nothing in 30 years!!" and stuff like that. I've been a fan since the early 60's. I remember cringing every time i heard "1940". or how about 1 cup in 75 years! When the 90's came around and they got Messier there was finally some optimism. It seems to me that the Caps should also feel this optimism now. You have a goalie that grew by leaps and bounds this year. You have the best all around player, bar none, in the world!! (sorry cindy crosby) one things for sure, they'll never call him Alice Ovechkin. And a hellava coach. Like Messier once told the fans "be patient". With the stud you have for a goaltender it's only a matter of time. Most likely sooner than later.

There is no Mark Messier out there coming to rescue this team, and Alex Ovechkin, as much as some people here don't want to hear it, is NOT Mark Messier.

Some people will say he scored one goal in game 7 and give him a leadership badge and a pass. Others will properly look at him boasting "all series long" and then disappearing for four games, or him guaranteeing a win then not delivering. Ovi may not have been the reason they lost, but he isn't capable of willing a team to victory or making the rest of the team better in such a way that they can get over this hump. He's a great scorer, a terrific power forward and he hits like a train... but there's an awful lot more that a leader can do... Ovi just isn't Messier, and there isn't another Messier on his way to DC.

 

[Brian23]

There is no Mark Messier out there coming to rescue this team, and Alex Ovechkin, as much as some people here don't want to hear it, is NOT Mark Messier.

Some people will say he scored one goal in game 7 and give him a leadership badge and a pass. Others will properly look at him boasting "all series long" and then disappearing for four games, or him guaranteeing a win then not delivering. Ovi may not have been the reason they lost, but he isn't capable of willing a team to victory or making the rest of the team better in such a way that they can get over this hump. He's a great scorer, a terrific power forward and he hits like a train... but there's an awful lot more that a leader can do... Ovi just isn't Messier, and there isn't another Messier on his way to DC.

Or you look and realize that the opposing team was able to sit on Ovechkin the entire series and no one punished him. Don't get me wrong, Ovi wasn't great this series but he certainly wasn't bad. He did his part in Game 7 and is one of only 2 players that can say they gave it their all, or really showed up, for Game 7.

Until people realize this isn't the same game as 5 or 6 years ago, let alone 20, and having one guy carry your team (short of a Goalie) is impossible. It just doesn't work. You need secondary scoring and we have/had no secondary scorers. We have a few guys who can get hot at good times, but no one who's consistent and no one who's able too draw attention away from the opposing team. I'd say we haven't had that since Semin or maybe even before that.

 

[g00n]

We didn't lose because of Ovechkin.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Ovi needs help. I hope GMBM is looking at Patrick Sharp if the Hawks don't sign him.

 

[um]

Ovi needs help. I hope GMBM is looking at Patrick Sharp if the Hawks don't sign him.

he's already signed for 2 more years, the reason there are rumors about moving him is because of kane and toews massive raises.

 

[um]

Some people will say he scored one goal in game 7 and give him a leadership badge and a pass. Others will properly look at him boasting "all series long" and then disappearing for four games,

He did not, he was only bad in games 4 and 5. And in the series as a whole he was our best forward.

 

[The Consiglieri]

Ranger fan here. It really kills me that you guys are so down on your team. "nothing in 30 years!!" and stuff like that. I've been a fan since the early 60's. I remember cringing every time i heard "1940". or how about 1 cup in 75 years! When the 90's came around and they got Messier there was finally some optimism. It seems to me that the Caps should also feel this optimism now. You have a goalie that grew by leaps and bounds this year. You have the best all around player, bar none, in the world!! (sorry cindy crosby) one things for sure, they'll never call him Alice Ovechkin. And a hellava coach. Like Messier once told the fans "be patient". With the stud you have for a goaltender it's only a matter of time. Most likely sooner than later.

If it was nothing in thirty years, it would be easy. Grantland did the service of providing a primer for why some of us would have stopped paying any attention decades ago if it weren't for the fact that we're loyal fans, and once you're locked in with a team, you're stuck with them to the bitter end, well, unless they move.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-storied-tradition-of-capitals-collapses/


Hence the near 80% approval for a scenario where Snyder moved the team to LA, and we spent a 3 year cycle in football limbo before being gifted back our team with a competent owner, Cleveland style (granted the latter part didn't work out for Cleveland).


Odd that the writer actually considered game 7 a potential coin toss? Once we were up 3 games to 1, I went to William Hill, the day preceeding games 5, 6 and 7, and layed down coin on the rangers each day. After 30 years of this horse <censored> the least I can get out of this garbage is money, for the foreknowledge that a choke job is guaranteed and inevitable.

If it doesn't happen I'm happy anyway, if it does, as expected, at least I get some blood money for supporting this miserable pile of chokers through 10 separate 2 game lead chokes in thirty years.

 

[The Consiglieri]

Ranger fan here. It really kills me that you guys are so down on your team. "nothing in 30 years!!" and stuff like that. I've been a fan since the early 60's. I remember cringing every time i heard "1940". or how about 1 cup in 75 years! When the 90's came around and they got Messier there was finally some optimism. It seems to me that the Caps should also feel this optimism now. You have a goalie that grew by leaps and bounds this year. You have the best all around player, bar none, in the world!! (sorry cindy crosby) one things for sure, they'll never call him Alice Ovechkin. And a hellava coach. Like Messier once told the fans "be patient". With the stud you have for a goaltender it's only a matter of time. Most likely sooner than later.

You got your superstar Oiler and you got the Stanley Cup for a year, when we got our Oiler, we got this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHLkk2gV3C4


I'm never going to believe anything good's going to happen until the clock reads 0:00, the Stanley Cups in our hands, and there's no fishy replays, or after the fact NCAA styled, "this championship title never happened" tags to deal with.

After whats gone down for this team, I just flat out have no faith or belief whatsoever in anything save the inevitably of a choke whenever we seem to have the upper hand.

 

[The Consiglieri]

40 years, now going to 41. Also, it's not so much of how many years, it's how they let the fans down EVERY year, the same god damn story. That's what hurts. We hold the record now for choke artists, that's exactly what it is that hurts. No one knows that pain but Caps fans.

however, we pushed the best team in the league arguably to the max. I'm proud of this team and the turn around they had after Adam ****ing Oates.

The years honestly mean nothing, there are countless fanbases that have been brokenhearted for decades, heck, as a kid, since there was no baseball team in DC, I ended up choosing to be a fan of the Expos and the Indians, the Expos turned into the Nats, and have choked everytime they've been near the playoffs, even having the temerity to put together their best ever season just in time for a strike to derail it in '94, and trading for Mark Langston after a massively hot start in '89, only to choke after the all star break, who'd they give up? Randy Johnson. Indians have the longest ongoing streak of failing to win the world series outside of the Cubs, and choked it away in '97, caps style.

The Browns, the Cardinals, the Lions, the Blues, you can go on and on and on. What makes it different, and so much worse is the way the Caps have failed to win the stanley cup, or even really show any heart to speak of. Instead they've folded up like lawn chairs the second any light has ever shown in for even a moment during the playoffs. Countless 3 games to 1 leads choked away, countless 2 games to 0 openings frittered away, and seemingly every game 7 that ever went to OT? Lost, with one or two bland exceptions (usually preceeding a classic 2 game choke in the next series, as if it was an amuse bouche for the excruciating playoff agony to follow).

 

[BTCG]

One thing you forget...

The Rangers are ALL IN the last few years. They have shipped out good prospects and 4 straight 1st round picks. They are going to be in serious salary cap situation as well.

The Caps still have their 1sts, are overall younger and still have quality prospects.

Lundqvist is in his prime and maybe the shadow of it.

Holtby hasn't even reached his full potential yet.

I wouldn't be so quick to brush this team off.

I forget how any #1's we had on the roster in the BB era: the better part of a dozen, from memory.

Can't see the forest though the trees?

 

[The Consiglieri]

I can't give this team anymore of my money, time, and support after their continuous choke jobs. You really have to be a masochist in order to enjoy watching this team year in and year out. This is probably the last time I'll ever get my hopes up for any DC sports team again. Now I'll just follow online/in the background while I do something else and just expect the worst.

That was the other classic aspect of the choke, in timing with it, the Wizards went full boulez, choking away a near 10 point lead, only to win it on a Pierce 3, except, oh no, 8 seconds left, I didnt want to see that, so I changed it back to the Caps, but I didn't want to see that either, so I just turned on netflix. Sure enough, somehow the Wiz give away an offensive rebound with 1.5 or so seconds left despite having the position, and swish, the Boulez season is flushed down the toilet in tandem with the Caps epic choke less than a half hour later. The Nats might have pulled the trifecta for us, but they save their chokes for October when it counts.

It's pretty awful needless to say, and the one thing that really bothers me is nearly every spring, I think I've finally put the will together to flat out not care anymore, but somehow, they drag me back in, every year. It's reached the point, however, where I'm pretty much done at this point, I have a family that needs my attention far more than this nightmare on "repeat" does. Next spring, I'm sure, I'll find myself peaking through the covers again, at the latest iteration of this horror show, only if for a few moments, but I can say what this pattern has done, has completely stomped out any interest i have whatsoever, in what the team does during the regular season, since I firmly believe no matter what the results, they won't mean squat once the playoffs arrive, so at least I don't waste any more time on this October-March. Hoping I can end the April-May waste next year, I have the Champions League, baseball, and another top 10 redskins draft pick to get excited about so maybe that will do it.

 

[The Consiglieri]

I think this loss was different then years past. They didn't lose this game in the first period, they didn't just roll over and die. This year they went toe to toe with the best in the East and forced into into sudden death over time. In that OT, they dominated, and they still lost.

They just gave way to much hope for too long. This one's gonna sting for awhile.

See, I don't see it that way of all.

The Caps were in it in game 5 in '85 (the finale that year), the 4OT agony of '87, the OT crusher against the Flyers in '08, and the nightmare against Montreal in game 7 in '10.

They've really covered all the angles in these chokes, from OT heartbreakers, to epic melt downs and everything inbetween. This was of a piece with everything else, including the "fighting to the bitter end motif, which was very much present in those crushers against the Islanders, the Flyers, and the Habs (the Penguins chokes usually housed the heartbreaking OT crushers in the middle of the series as a turning point, almost just to give you of the preview to come in games 6 and/or 7.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The PP went from being a "we can kill you with anyone" to "pass the ball to tucker" reaaaaaallly fast. Every team we faced basically made us play 4 on 2 when they had 2 guys shadowing Ovi and none of our 4 could do anything. Backstrom wouldn't shoot, Carlson doesn't have the shot, and Brouwer is garbage. Mojo, or whoever's down low, could have done some but they're shooting opportunities are limited.

Had even one of those 3 aforementioned done something it would have opened our PP right up. We should have had Green and Kuzya on PP1 all playoffs, at least then you've got two more creative trigger men.

Sad but honest assessment. Our PP has one killer who wants to score more than life itself and 4 deferers.

 

[Maruk moustache]

Yeah. I want to have seen the whole season if/when they finally win it all. I'm hoping I live to see it. That is all.

I think my first memory is probably being at a Capitals game, being smuggled in on my dad's shoulders, trying to pretend I was under whatever age it was that allowed you to get in for free at the time. The Capitals are part of me. I don't feel like I have a choice but to continue watching every game, no matter how painful it is at times like these. I don't want to miss it if/when it happens.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah. I want to have seen the whole season if/when they finally win it all. I'm hoping I live to see it. That is all.

I think my first memory is probably being at a Capitals game, being smuggled in on my dad's shoulders, trying to pretend I was under whatever age it was that allowed you to get in for free at the time. The Capitals are part of me. I don't feel like I have a choice but to continue watching every game, no matter how painful it is at times like these. I don't want to miss it if/when it happens.

It's what being a hardcore fan is about. I feel the same heartbreaking way.

 

[RandyHolt]

Sad but honest assessment. Our PP has one killer who wants to score more than life itself and 4 deferers.

The PP is a microcosm of our entire team.

True but honest assessment. Our team has one killer who wants to score more than life itself, and 17 deferers.

Its almost like we need another alpha male in the mix. Ovi carries far too much of the load. The entire team waits for him to hit and give his all, before they will consider giving 50%. Sure guys like Wilson and Orpik are exceptions, but we are mostly a bunch of followers.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

he's already signed for 2 more years, the reason there are rumors about moving him is because of kane and toews massive raises.

I thought he was a UFA.
Well, we can still make an offer for him.

 

[artilector]

The PP is a microcosm of our entire team.

True but honest assessment. Our team has one killer who wants to score more than life itself, and 17 deferers.

Its almost like we need another alpha male in the mix. Ovi carries far too much of the load. The entire team waits for him to hit and give his all, before they will consider giving 50%. Sure guys like Wilson and Orpik are exceptions, but we are mostly a bunch of followers.

Ovi comes alive in incredible but let's be honest, usually short bursts.
Holtby, Kuz, Ward, Orpik have high battle worthiness. Hopefully Wilson, too, with more ice-time/confidence/experience -- for now he's uneven with a few bonus crazy hits.
Chimera stepped up, Bura seems close.
Defense is decent at what they do.
The rest have mostly played like extras on the set of Troy, or something. They look like warriors, dress like warriors, talk like warriors, but there's a reason they don't get mentioned in credits.
Backstrom is a special case, Caps desperately need to figure out how to bring his overall impact more in line with his skills, if it can be done.
Disappointed in how Fehr ended the season.. I like both him and Beagle, but not sure if they make sense to keep -- kind of same boat as Mojo, whose picture I last saw in the dictionary next to the word "lukewarm"

 

[Langway]

Sigh:

 

[animositynow]

Sigh:

they got it bang on with mike green as the chosen player for the image.

 

[Maruk moustache]

But that's the number of series played in. I wonder what the tallies are for numbers of series ahead by 2, y'know, so we can see both the wins and losses in series ahead by 2.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

We haven't won in 40 years now, I get it. We tend to forget that for the first 15 years, we were a brand new expansion team in danger of relocation because the Caps generated very little interest.
The first season in Caps history is arguably the worst season of all time by a NHL team.
Anybody old enough to remember the "Save the Caps" campaign ?

The Caps had a lot of trouble since 1974. Parity saved this team's ***.