Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 "Season" Pt. 6

[Marshall]

Who is easier to replace - Schultz or Dillon?

 

[Langway]

I don't think the Capitals are going to reach the same heights as they did in 2010 and 2016-17 in terms of being the odds-on favorites to win it all, but with a few good moves they should be able to position themselves to be contenders instead of also-rans as they have been for the past 3 seasons.

I don't see it from a cap standpoint barring Ovechkin taking a pretty severe discount. The main thing I don't think is being properly factored into moves is the human and team side. Swap out too many essential pieces and it runs the risk of the room deteriorating in the face of adversity. If it's done with the right vision it can work but I don't think they have that or the motivation right now. I think they're largely married to this roster, or the core anyway, and there will have to be more disappointment to force bigger moves beyond 92. You never know. The right offer could come through and blow them away but I find it really doubtful.

Their moves have largely been forced by circumstance rather than being proactive and I don't suspect that changes. Time will tell if moving out 92 for more of a Laviolette/team fit and some more athleticism is enough. There are a lot of areas organizationally where they need to take it to another level. A subtle off-season outside of 92/center may not be enough but mostly because I'm not sure Laviolette and his finisher approach truly suits them. I'm not sure their fundamentals improved to the point where he's actually a really good coach these days. There's ample evidence from some of his Nashville work that calls that into question and his playoff adjustments weren't brilliant. They brought him in to be a closer but fundamentally that may have been a significant misstep.

 

[SpinningEdge]

What’s the biggest issue with this caps team no one is mentioning is how bad we are lately at developing forwards. Especially in bottom 6.

when you have to trade for raffl, sign guys like Hagelin and panik to 4 year deals, etc - that’s because you don’t have depth in your minors.

some of our top picks seems to be okay - and defensively we are okay - but depth forwards with guys on entry level contracts has hurt this team badly lately. It has also made us so much older.

 

[The Instigator]

Who is easier to replace - Schultz or Dillon?

Schultz.

 

[Calicaps]

one guy isn’t the answer…the TEAM needs to buy in and give their all….we cant support high priced talents who don’t care AND demand a winning culture/team.

Wilson isn’t one of those guys.

By many accounts Wilson is the second-most beloved guy on the room after Osh. But I'm sure nothing bad will happen if we just cut the heart and soul out of the team.

 

[twabby]

By many accounts Wilson is the second-most beloved guy on the room after Osh. But I'm sure nothing bad will happen if we just cut the heart and soul out of the team.

But again, if a better player is able to come in and be a better fit on the ice, why does it matter if a good locker room guy is traded away? If the Capitals are truly looking to rebuild a contender how can we look at the past 3 years and say that everything is fine and they need to just keep plugging away with the same core? Are we truly content with just trading Kuznetsov for pennies on the dollar and calling it a day?

At some point the core needs to be closely examined. If we're assuming Ovechkin and Backstrom are untouchable and need to retire as Caps, then how can we not look at what players like Carlson and Wilson could return in trades to make the team significantly better?

As I mentioned before these guys are all professionals. Suggesting that the locker room would suffer irreparable harm if Wilson is traded away doesn't say much about the maturity and character of the other guys in the room. It's a business, business decisions should be made. Not "make people feel happy and comfortable" decisions.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Where are these mythical better players we’re getting that put us closer to a Cup next year coming from?

Carlson and Wilson are a ways down the list….address 92, then see what’s left.

I’m not buying the BS angle that the guys you want to run out of town are magically overvalued by the rest of the league, therefor we must move them, but your boy Kuzy only returns pennies on the dollar therefor it only makes sense to keep him.

 

[txpd]

Who is easier to replace - Schultz or Dillon?

Dillon. Defense first players are more common than right shot offensive players.

 

[txpd]

Where are these mythical better players we’re getting that put us closer to a Cup next year coming from?

Carlson and Wilson are a ways down the list….address 92, then see what’s left.

I’m not buying the BS angle that the guys you want to run out of town are magically overvalued by the rest of the league, therefor we must move them, but your boy Kuzy only returns pennies on the dollar therefor it only makes sense to keep him.

Nothing to address with 92 except to increase his usage to fit the quality of his play. That Kuzy's underlying stats showed he was outstanding and Backstrom proved to be struggling, but Laviolette insisted on playing Backstrom big mins while not trusting Kuzy is proof that Lavy was a bad coach.

The overvalued part is just saying that goals, points and physical play are all overvalued. Opposing GMs will be blinded by those things and overpay.

 

[txpd]

But again, if a better player is able to come in and be a better fit on the ice, why does it matter if a good locker room guy is traded away? As I mentioned before these guys are all professionals. Suggesting that the locker room would suffer irreparable harm if Wilson is traded away doesn't say much about the maturity and character of the other guys in the room..

Hockey teams are made up of actual humans rather than generic analytics producers. I understand your devotion to the numbers and I therefore understand how you dismiss Oshie's 2nd on the team in goals and 3rd in points as overrated. That you have no regard whatever for emotional leaders and inspirational players in a game like is just so wrong. Oshie is a guy an entire team knows "will go that inch with ya". Look up the reference.

You think players that have the air taken out of them when their inspirational leader goes down are unprofessional?? You think the Caps devotion to TJ Oshie is unprofessional?

 

[Melkor]

Who is easier to replace - Schultz or Dillon?

Both should be pretty easy to replace.

 

[Melkor]

By many accounts Wilson is the second-most beloved guy on the room after Osh. But I'm sure nothing bad will happen if we just cut the heart and soul out of the team.

Nothing against Wilson in particular but it is fair to question does that team even need it's present heart, lungs or kidneys or whatever people call them if it is just rolling down the hill into mediocrity. You only stand pat 100% with the core if you're sure you're capable of still going on deep runs in the future. Otherwise, I'm sorry, it's all more of a sentimental bullshit than anything.

And I will reiterate: nothing specifically against Wilson as a player.

 

[twabby]

Nothing against Wilson in particular but it is fair to question does that team even need it's present heart, lungs or kidneys or whatever people call them if it is just rolling down the hill into mediocrity. You only stand pat 100% with the core if you're sure you're capable of still going on deep runs in the future. Otherwise, I'm sorry, it's all more of a sentimental bullshit than anything.

And I will reiterate: nothing specifically against Wilson as a player.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. I think tinkering around the edges is over.

This team isn’t close right now. Not only 3 straight first round defeats, but the last two were in decisive fashion. This wasn’t a matter of a few bounces not going their way like under Trotz from 2015-2017, or Boudreau from 2009-10. They need a big change.

If you think there is a way to make the team significantly better without changing the core a little bit I’m all ears. I don’t think simply improving the second defensive pair, or shipping Kuznetsov out for a steadier more defensive minded player, or hoping for better injury luck gets this team close.

Washington’s star players just aren’t good enough any more. This isn’t to badmouth them, but they are really old in hockey years and can’t be realistically expected to lead the team to a championship. Their next wave of good players: Wilson, Kuznetsov, and Carlson need to be shopped if they’ll bring in upgrades.

I don’t know for sure that they can land any upgrades, but “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” isn’t an option.

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. I think tinkering around the edges is over.

This team isn’t close right now. Not only 3 straight first round defeats, but the last two were in decisive fashion. This wasn’t a matter of a few bounces not going their way like under Trotz from 2015-2017, or Boudreau from 2009-10. They need a big change.

If you think there is a way to make the team significantly better without changing the core a little bit I’m all ears. I don’t think simply improving the second defensive pair, or shipping Kuznetsov out for a steadier more defensive minded player, or hoping for better injury luck gets this team close.

Washington’s star players just aren’t good enough any more. This isn’t to badmouth them, but they are really old in hockey years and can’t be realistically expected to lead the team to a championship. Their next wave of good players: Wilson, Kuznetsov, and Carlson need to be shopped if they’ll bring in upgrades.

I don’t know for sure that they can land any upgrades, but “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” isn’t an option.

This. However, I have a feeling they will continue to make changes around the edges while the main focus will be the marketing of Ovi’s goal pursuit. Hopefully fans don’t fall for that and they are still held accountable for actually trying to win but who knows.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

This. However, I have a feeling they will continue to make changes around the edges while the main focus will be the marketing of Ovi’s goal pursuit. Hopefully fans don’t fall for that and they are still held accountable for actually trying to win but who knows.

They will market Ovie and the rest of the core. They will tinker around the edges. Ted will be content with capacity crowds for 41 RS games and a couple of home playoff games. In a league with 32 teams, nearly 97% of the fan bases end each season in disappointment, at least insofar as the ultimate prize is concerned. Cup winners typically need a few years of suckitude that yield high draft choices, smart/lucky drafting and player development, and a handful of acquisitions of guys who fill their teams' unmet needs and are often undervalued by the teams that move them. Unless team performance falls off a cliff, under the general plan the high draft picks won't happen, the pipeline shows no signs of filling to capacity, and hockey trades/contracts given out are on balance less than a clear win.

It's a low-risk, low-reward approach. Surprising from an organization with someone who made his fortune in tech at the top.

 

[OV Rocks]

What’s the biggest issue with this caps team no one is mentioning is how bad we are lately at developing forwards. Especially in bottom 6.

when you have to trade for raffl, sign guys like Hagelin and panik to 4 year deals, etc - that’s because you don’t have depth in your minors.

some of our top picks seems to be okay - and defensively we are okay - but depth forwards with guys on entry level contracts has hurt this team badly lately. It has also made us so much older.

I think that is a bit of the standard across the entire NHL right now. Look at the Bruins lineup, Outside of the first line, their only home grown talent is Krejci and Debrusk. The Islanders whole third line comes from outside the organization and their fourth line has been together forever. I am sure if I had more time, I could find the same could be said for most of the remaining playoff teams.

The shift in the league has pushed towards speed and skill, and the AHL follows suit to that. Take McMichael for example, he is a speed and skill player that needs to have the puck on his stick and be in the offensive zone. Why would you call him up to play on the 3rd line, force a more defensive game onto him, and expect him to succeed. We all saw how Tom Wilson's development was stunted for a bit by getting stuck on the 3/4 lines.

On the flip side, if you are in the AHL right now, and you know that speed and skill will get you called up, it is very hard to keep a mindset of let me grind out my time down here and hope I get a chance on the 4th line soon.

 

[twabby]

Where are these mythical better players we’re getting that put us closer to a Cup next year coming from?

That's not really for me to figure out. Maybe the Capitals could pry someone like Elias Pettersson away from Vancouver with Kuznetsov+Wilson as the centerpieces going to Vancouver. Jim Benning isn't exactly known for his rational decision-making, and the man loves himself some toughness and former Capitals.

Like I said, if BMac can say he gave it a good aggressive effort and nothing was available then fine. But if the plan is to not stir the pot too much, upgrade some of their depth pieces, and maybe swap Kuznetsov for someone More Responsible then it will almost surely lead to more mediocrity next season.

 

[Roshi]

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. I think tinkering around the edges is over.

This team isn’t close right now. Not only 3 straight first round defeats, but the last two were in decisive fashion. This wasn’t a matter of a few bounces not going their way like under Trotz from 2015-2017, or Boudreau from 2009-10. They need a big change.

If you think there is a way to make the team significantly better without changing the core a little bit I’m all ears. I don’t think simply improving the second defensive pair, or shipping Kuznetsov out for a steadier more defensive minded player, or hoping for better injury luck gets this team close.

Washington’s star players just aren’t good enough any more. This isn’t to badmouth them, but they are really old in hockey years and can’t be realistically expected to lead the team to a championship. Their next wave of good players: Wilson, Kuznetsov, and Carlson need to be shopped if they’ll bring in upgrades.

I don’t know for sure that they can land any upgrades, but “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” isn’t an option.

The prior two first round exits are not to be compared to the latest, imo. Those were Reirdens teams.They were hangovered against in the 7-games series with the Canes, but were a lucky bounce away from advancing. After that it all went downhill and the whole next season was terrible, with corona etc stepping in the picture too, they just didnt care in the playoffs. It wasnt about not having enough skill to success, they just lacked heart, and obviously big part of that was because they lost trust to their coach at during the process.

Laviolette brought the ship around. We had a pretty good regular season when looking at everything that went on. Our depth guys bought in. There were many nights when you could feel that we were back at the top of the league again. But so many injuries, COVID-absences, new system etc. had their share, and obviously a veteran team isnt going to look great every night. But we really looked like a team that would be tough to beat in playoffs.

Sure we then got killed in 5 against Bruins, but that was much about the circumstances too. Basically our whole top6 was playing more or less injured and Bruins was red hot coming into that series. And yet again, if they get the OT goal in either of G2 or G3 it might be completely different series.

Im bored of hearing about our "mediocrity" or that we are "long way" from having a shot. That is not true and we still have great team, that with the right timing can beat any team in the league.
Im excited to see what kind of a team Laviolette brings back next season when his had more time to actually "personalize" with the team.

Sure we arent one of the top runners (Tampa,Avs) but we are as close to them as anyone. But neither are the 30 other organizations.

Success at playoffs needs the talent and the heart, sure, but it also needs the right timing and just luck. You need to stay healthy and get (deserve) the bounces. We are at that level where that its entirely possible and not even that hard to imagine us getting hot and making a long run. Over fixing or mulling it all around can as easily just take us further away from that point.

Im not ready to watch my team losing for a decade for empty promises and what-ifs. Give me these upcoming 2-5 years of playoffs-hockey before that.

Only way im on board for bigger core hammering (apart from Kuzy), is if we are getting a franchise altering player like Eichel back. A guy who pretty much extends our window from the current 2-5 years into a 5-10 years.

 

[895]

By what basis did Laviolette turn the ship around? Slightly worse regular season results and same playoff results.

 

[CapsDC]

I tend to think they won't get enough of a return on Kuzy and will be better off keeping him. Whatever they do their days of being Cup favorites are probably over, but that doesn't mean there's no chance the core could ever win another one. They have talent and if they stay healthy can still be a dangerous playoff team, and with some puck luck maybe another run happens.

Sure shop Kuzy(and whoever else) and see if a fantastic deal falls in their laps but it probably won't happen. The rest of the league see his flaws and big contract just like we do. I think it's lazy to just assume mgmt didn't try hard enough if/when that ends up being the case.

 

[tenken00]

Realistically that probably involves getting younger and assuming some risk but finding equally versatile talents isn't easy. Finding franchises willing to get older isn't easy. MacLellan is more bold than GMGM but I'm not sure ownership is prepared to cut that deep. Overall I don't think they'll want to subtract a crucial piece from the room until they miss the playoffs and have more of a mandate. Even 92 is tricky removing his talent and not taking a step back. They could add a more consistent and defensive-minded center but finding the right blend to augment 19 and their wingers won't be easy.

Funny thing is the team that I think Wilson would be the perfect fit for is the...

NY Rangers...

 

[Roshi]

By what basis did Laviolette turn the ship around? Slightly worse regular season results and same playoff results.

You really think this?

Reirdens Caps were down spiraling fast. They got worse and worse. Thats how Lavi turned the ship down,

Caps played better hockey with all the knacking injuries against the Bruins than they did healthy against the Islanders last year.

im hoping the trend to continue. Age might be a factor, but nobody should deny that the skill level is there. Just need to find the momentum.

 

[895]

You really think this?

Reirdens Caps were down spiraling fast. They got worse and worse. Thats how Lavi turned the ship down,

Caps played better hockey with all the knacking injuries against the Bruins than they did healthy against the Islanders last year.

im hoping the trend to continue. Age might be a factor, but nobody should deny that the skill level is there. Just need to find the momentum.

I think based on his body of work and 3 cup finals Laviolette is a good coach, yes.

But to say he turned the ship around from Reirden is just wishful thinking. We have zero evidence of that as of yet. Will he? I think and hope he will.

 

[Roshi]

I think based on his body of work and 3 cup finals Laviolette is a good coach, yes.

But to say he turned the ship around from Reirden is just wishful thinking. We have zero evidence of that as of yet. Will he? I think and hope he will.

Rather go wishful thinking than the dreadful thinking that our board glooms.

This year was special in many ways. I dont think playing within the division instead pf spread wide was favouring us either. With having so many on- and off-ice distractions and basically no time to get close with the team and adapting your style and game into the locker room.

I like my eye test more than your facts Caps was better this season than the last.

Reirden inherited Stanley Cup champions and what he left behind was a mess and soulless bunch of sheeps. With Laviolette we found parts of our identity back and im comfortable in trusting them to build on that.

 

[g00n]

I don't have time right now to read every single hot take on this, but it's utterly ridiculous to pivot from that horrid performance by Kuz and Sammy, following their multiple bonehead off-ice moves, and somehow start blaming 4 of our best team players who have proven themselves much more on and off the ice, and who were all injured and/or unable to play at 100% for other reasons (Wilson being a target for DOPS).

Just mind-boggling.