Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 Still The Champs Edition - Pt. 9

[PB12]

@trading Orlov

Although there are many LD prospects in the system... replacing 38 years old Orpik is one thing and replacing Orlov is totally another. In playoffs Orlov was able to get some separation from opponent's defense and to make plays offensively. Wasn't ugly defensively. I dont see a problem with his contract. Also he's loyal team first guy and core friend of Russians who are backbone of the team (along with Backy).

So I'd say any LD prospect needs to displace Kempny before Orlov.

Also Orlov could be AA's mentor. Also can play right side (as long as we are moving in that direction anyway - no 3rd right handed RD after Niskanen).

I dont see him traded this or next season.

Cut the **** everyone! If 5.1M dollars isn't a lot for Orlov. Then 5.7M isn't alot for Nisky. You could make the case that this has been Nisky's only bad year under this contract, and everyone is acting like Max Kellerman. You guys act like Nisky's career is over. The guy is only 32. Its up there, but he isn't done. Why does everyone have a love affair for Orlov. Please tell me. It can't be his defense. It can't be his offense. Is it because of his age?! If thats the reason we got some serious issues on this forum.

 

[PB12]

The one thing i do know is that most people on this forum have a weird obssesion with any guy under 28. Its kind of creepy.

 

[RandyHolt]

....


Also Orlov could be AA's mentor. Also can play right side (as long as we are moving in that direction anyway - no 3rd right handed RD after Niskanen).

I dont see him traded this or next season.

It may be time to unclog the LD pipe... Orlov moving right solves lots of problems. The D of the future, today.

Kemps Carlson
Siggy Jensen
AA Orlov
Djoos
Lucas Hobbs

 

[Sam Spade]

It may be time to unclog the LD pipe... Orlov moving right solves lots of problems. The D of the future, today.

Kemps Carlson
Siggy Jensen
AA Orlov
Djoos
Lucas Hobbs

And we better make room for Fehrevery cause he is gonna be decent as well.

 

[Raikkonen]

First they need to get to the NHL. AA is injured (again). Fehervary is not there defensively as far as I understand. It's a process. When they are knocking on the door situation in Caps could be different.

Currently left side is weaker. But its trending up.
Right side is stronger (thanks to GMBM) but trending down.

Orlov can certainly be a guy in question, but not today I think.

 

[RandyHolt]

And we better make room for Fehrevery cause he is gonna be decent as well.

I hope so and good point.

I wonder who our 7 will be. It would make sense its not a kid that needs to play. Maybe Lewington serves there next year. I think its not accurate to project one of our kids at 7.... but maybe that is the optimal spot for Djoos actually.

 

[Sam Spade]

I hope so and good point.

I wonder who our 7 will be. It would make sense its not a kid that needs to play. Maybe Lewington serves there next year. I think its not accurate to project one of our kids at 7.... but maybe that is the optimal spot for Djoos actually.

Just play someone you don't really care about losing to Seattle. Maybe Djoos is that guy.....

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Orlov is an all-around defenseman that is still young, on a really solid contract. He has the skill and talent of high-end forwards, with good skating ability, physicality, defensive instincts, and offensive playmaking abilities.

He struggled a little with Nisky this year for a period of time - and made some bad turnovers and defensive reads, but, when he came out of that slump towards the end of the RS and into the playoffs, he was easily our most dangerous defender with the puck on his stick and very positive defensively. Carlson is our best defender, but, Orlov can hit another gear and create separation that Carlson cannot.

Niskanen is five years older, costs a bit more, and has been struggling with a decline and lack of foot speed. I think Washington would regret an Orlov trade because they wouldn't get top value for him and he still has another gear offensively that he would be able to hit with less difficult minutes and more PP time, IMO. I also think that Orlov would be better off with Jensen long-term - a defensive defender with good skating ability.

Orlov is perfect for the modern NHL and Niskanen's foot speed and acceleration - lack thereof - is becoming an apparent problem to me.

I don't think that there would be any reason they'd move Orlov before Niskanen.

 

[txpd]

@trading Orlov

Although there are many LD prospects in the system... replacing 38 years old Orpik is one thing and replacing Orlov is totally another. In playoffs Orlov was able to get some separation from opponent's defense and to make plays offensively. Wasn't ugly defensively. I dont see a problem with his contract. Also he's loyal team first guy and core friend of Russians who are backbone of the team (along with Backy).

So I'd say any LD prospect needs to displace Kempny before Orlov.

Also Orlov could be AA's mentor. Also can play right side (as long as we are moving in that direction anyway - no 3rd right handed RD after Niskanen).

I dont see him traded this or next season.

The Caps cant replace either 2 or 9. Jensen is a step or 2 down from Niskanen and Seigenthaler at least that from Orlov. I am only saying that if one has to go that you shouldn't just dismiss out of hand that Orlov gets traded.

Reminder. Orlov plays at best a secondary role on the pp and only fill on time on the PK. His mins are easier to fill in a lot of ways. Everyone thinks its Niskanen. Just down be gobsmacked if its someone else

 

[txpd]

I think Washington would regret an Orlov trade because they wouldn't get top value for him and he still has another gear offensively that he would be able to hit with less difficult minutes and more PP time.

He is never going to show that gear on a Caps power play that is set up for right shooting players. Period. I am not sure where the easier mins come from. He is part of the shutdown pair. If Niskanen is traded, Orlov will likely get a new partner and remain in that role. Likely with Jensen. Carlson and Kempny are not going to get the shutdown assignment

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Also - Fehervary and Alexeyev are my two next studs on the back-end, if they continue this upwards trajectory. Moving to the AHL and succeeding there will be huge for both.

I think they are our two defensive prospects with the highest ceilings.

I personally think they move LuJo for a similar FWD prospect at some point and move Hobbs in a TDL deal.

Nothing against LuJo - LD is a position of strength for us and he can be a solid, steady two-way defender, but, when you have potential difference-makers like Alexeyev, it's hard to move them instead of LuJo. LuJo is still very young and still has another gear that he could develop, but, I am not sure if he will ever be able to put all of his tools together to be a difference-maker - being a steady eddy defender isn't a problem, but, I don't see the Caps having him above AA & MF, if both continue this path.

Hobbs, I personally think regressed this season and am not sure if his play will really transfer well to the NHL level.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

He is never going to show that gear on a Caps power play that is set up for right shooting players. Period. I am not sure where the easier mins come from. He is part of the shutdown pair. If Niskanen is traded, Orlov will likely get a new partner and remain in that role. Likely with Jensen. Carlson and Kempny are not going to get the shutdown assignment

Orlov sometimes gets only 20-30 seconds maximum on many PPs because the first unit is on for so long. Even if the PP is setup for Ovi and a RHD to set him up, I haven't seen Orlov have any problem playing and catching passes off of his backhand or forehand and then opening up.

Tex - when all are healthy, how would you feel about potentially trying Kempny & Jensen together? That could be an epic shutdown pair and very, very cap-friendly.

Then, you could either create a super pair with Orlov & Carlson, or, split them and stick them with two of Siegs/Djoos & later Alexeyev/Fehervary.

 

[PB12]

Orlov is an all-around defenseman that is still young, on a really solid contract. He has the skill and talent of high-end forwards, with good skating ability, physicality, defensive instincts, and offensive playmaking abilities.

He struggled a little with Nisky this year for a period of time - and made some bad turnovers and defensive reads, but, when he came out of that slump towards the end of the RS and into the playoffs, he was easily our most dangerous defender with the puck on his stick and very positive defensively. Carlson is our best defender, but, Orlov can hit another gear and create separation that Carlson cannot.

Niskanen is five years older, costs a bit more, and has been struggling with a decline and lack of foot speed. I think Washington would regret an Orlov trade because they wouldn't get top value for him and he still has another gear offensively that he would be able to hit with less difficult minutes and more PP time, IMO. I also think that Orlov would be better off with Jensen long-term - a defensive defender with good skating ability.

Orlov is perfect for the modern NHL and Niskanen's foot speed and acceleration - lack thereof - is becoming an apparent problem to me.

I don't think that there would be any reason they'd move Orlov before Niskanen.

He is not young anymore! He isn't a kid anymore. He turns 28 this year. He has been in the league for 8 years. Every year there is some excuse or reason for this guy. I am not even going to call him kid anymore. Yes he had a decent playoffs, but i need him to be better 82 plus next season. Its time to start forcing accountablity on Orlov like people do Oshie, Nisky, Holtby, Backstrom, Carlson , and OV. He isn't a "precious" prospect anymore. He's been healthy, he is on top line now. For me this is a sink or swim year for Orlov.

 

[Raikkonen]

Sink or swim? Swim where? He's established player already

Has some warts? Sure, thats why he isnt getting 8M

 

[crazy8888]

Cut the **** everyone! If 5.1M dollars isn't a lot for Orlov. Then 5.7M isn't alot for Nisky. You could make the case that this has been Nisky's only bad year under this contract, and everyone is acting like Max Kellerman. You guys act like Nisky's career is over. The guy is only 32. Its up there, but he isn't done. Why does everyone have a love affair for Orlov. Please tell me. It can't be his defense. It can't be his offense. Is it because of his age?! If thats the reason we got some serious issues on this forum.

Because after every early exit people find a scapegoat. I guess having someone to put the blame on helps with relieving frustration. Anyway where is all this trade Niskanen talk coming from anyway? We have any legitimate sources saying he is being shopped? My best guess is both him and Orlov are back next year.

 

[Corby78]

Just play someone you don't really care about losing to Seattle. Maybe Djoos is that guy.....

If Djoos is the most attractive guy available for Seattle, we have either gotten it completely right or completely wrong.

 

[twabby]

Because after every early exit people find a scapegoat. I guess having someone to put the blame on helps with relieving frustration. Anyway where is all this trade Niskanen talk coming from anyway? We have any legitimate sources saying he is being shopped? My best guess is both him and Orlov are back next year.

Isabelle mentioned it as a possibility here and I tend to agree with her:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...-window/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1925067a2e4a

Even if his cap hit isn't a problem Niskanen isn't really cut out for top 4 minutes at ES any more and certainly not top-pairing shutdown ES minutes. His WOWYs paint a picture of him being a drag on everyone he plays with. It'd be one thing if this were just a blip on the radar but this is now a 2-year trend and more concerning is that after he sustained his injury early in the 2017-18 season he never returned to form. It's the Karl Alzner situation all over again, though maybe not quite as steep a dropoff.

IMO Niskanen isn't really a candidate to bounce back and while they shouldn't be looking to trade him for peanuts since he does have value as a PKer and should be fine in a third pairing role, they really should explore the trade market and see if something makes sense. The Jensen signing kind of hinted that they lost faith in Niskanen as a top 4 defender so I imagine they'll listen to offers at the very least.

 

[txpd]

Orlov sometimes gets only 20-30 seconds maximum on many PPs because the first unit is on for so long. Even if the PP is setup for Ovi and a RHD to set him up, I haven't seen Orlov have any problem playing and catching passes off of his backhand or forehand and then opening up.

Tex - when all are healthy, how would you feel about potentially trying Kempny & Jensen together? That could be an epic shutdown pair and very, very cap-friendly.

Then, you could either create a super pair with Orlov & Carlson, or, split them and stick them with two of Siegs/Djoos & later Alexeyev/Fehervary.

You may not see problems but I am not sure what you are looking at Orlov must turn his body around to pass to Ov after taking a pass from his right. All the right shot players are to allow one touch movement of the puck. The reason Carlson is out there so long is because of that. The reason Orlov plays so little is because of that.

Kempny as a shut down pair player. Hell, no. As of this season Reirden was still using Orpik in his spot for crucial defensive assignments. He is not cut out for that. That is part of the problem with Orlov. He doesn't pk and he doesn't really PP. Niskanen meanwhile is first pk rd.

 

[tenken00]

The one thing i do know is that most people on this forum have a weird obssesion with any guy under 28. Its kind of creepy.

I think the only one with a weird obsession is you lol. Orlov, Orlov, Orlov.

I don't think anyone is opposed to dealing Orlov if he's part of a great package or we are targeting someone better.

That's all. Moving Orlov is a bigger trade. We're up for it, but bigger trade means the less we can mess it up.

And I see Niskanen's ever growing lack of foot speed being a major problem.

He could get by in the old NHL. But he's getting slower and slower while the NHL is getting faster and faster. Carolina ran circles around us. If the Hurricanes actually had any skill they would have blown us out in 4 swept games.

 

[RandyHolt]

Horse hockey. If Nick puts a pass onto Orlov's forehand, he does not to turn his body to feed pucks to Ovi. He can easily one touch it. And one could argue it's a shorter and thus easier pass, vs an RD that has to pass the puck across his body from farther away. I think someone missed Orlov's fine PP assist into Ovi's wheel house just last week.

 

[Raikkonen]

I dont buy Jensen being signed to replace Niskanen as a main idea.

Jensen-Niskanen-Carlson is a good trio to use with many younger (faster) players we have on the left side.

Would you like say Fehervary-Niskanen pair or Fehervary-Djoos? Fehervary-Lewington? Fehervary-Hobbs?

There are options with Nisky

 

[PB12]

I think the only one with a weird obsession is you lol. Orlov, Orlov, Orlov.

I don't think anyone is opposed to dealing Orlov if he's part of a great package or we are targeting someone better.

That's all. Moving Orlov is a bigger trade. We're up for it, but bigger trade means the less we can mess it up.

And I see Niskanen's ever growing lack of foot speed being a major problem.

He could get by in the old NHL. But he's getting slower and slower while the NHL is getting faster and faster. Carolina ran circles around us. If the Hurricanes actually had any skill they would have blown us out in 4 swept games.

Yeah i have an obsession with Orlov. I have an Obsession with the fact the guy is taking 5.1M dollars out of the salary cap and has done very little to earn that money. The only reason he earned that money was Mac didn't want to lose him and he had potential. I want to see the guy do well so he can prove he is worth that 5.1M, but unlike most people here i ain't going to say "he's good", by judging 7 games. I want Orlov to do well 82 plus, but i'm skeptical he can do it. This is less about the player but more about the money. He shouldn't be making Nisky or Orpik money on his last contract.

 

[PB12]

I'm curious. If you're this upset about Orlov over the full season taking 5.1 in cap, how do you reallyyyy feel about Kuznetsov for 7.8?

Kuzy needs to step up as well. Kuzy has two gears it seems. He needs to put it in the next gear. Lets be honest here, there is a difference. We don't have anyone to replace Kuzy in the system right now. With Orlov, we got a bunch of young guys that would love to have his spot. Speaking of which i got an idea for next years lines

Young Kid-Orlov
Carlson-Kempny
Jensen-Nisky

Okay Orlov lets see how much attention you have been paying to Orpik and Nisky over the years. I'm throwing you into the deep end.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Cut the **** everyone! If 5.1M dollars isn't a lot for Orlov. Then 5.7M isn't alot for Nisky. You could make the case that this has been Nisky's only bad year under this contract, and everyone is acting like Max Kellerman. You guys act like Nisky's career is over. The guy is only 32. Its up there, but he isn't done. Why does everyone have a love affair for Orlov. Please tell me. It can't be his defense. It can't be his offense. Is it because of his age?! If thats the reason we got some serious issues on this forum.

To stay competitive there are moments every season where a team needs to identify where to cull the fat from. This move wouldn't just be for next year, it's looking forward to when Niskanen is here in two years and still making $5.7 The Capitals have to make a trade move to free up salary cap, this we know. If you examine the team needs and depth it becomes clear that Niskanen is the most expendable. Why Niskanen you ask? Well age is one factor, if he is indeed simply having an off year he picked a pretty poor time to do it. As he hits 33 next season the question of natural decline obviously creeps in, if he had a more sporadic pattern of this it ironically might benefit his tenure here, but because this season was such an anomaly it naturally leads one to believe age is the factor. Second, his term, we're not resigning an aging defenseman in 2022 when we have the farm stocked, it makes sense to reap rewards for him now. Third, his style is a hotter commodity to potential trade partners. A veteran-responsible defenseman is something a lot of teams are looking for.

I mean let's be realistic, you have Niskanen slotted in for bottom pairing as time goes on, that's a brutal anchor of a contract in that slot.


So in short, someone has to be moved, Niskanen has less guarantee at bouncing back than Orlov, his contract will bloat with age, and we will likely find better trade partners for him.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Yeah i have an obsession with Orlov. I have an Obsession with the fact the guy is taking 5.1M dollars out of the salary cap and has done very little to earn that money. The only reason he earned that money was Mac didn't want to lose him and he had potential. I want to see the guy do well so he can prove he is worth that 5.1M, but unlike most people here i ain't going to say "he's good", by judging 7 games. I want Orlov to do well 82 plus, but i'm skeptical he can do it. This is less about the player but more about the money. He shouldn't be making Nisky or Orpik money on his last contract.

Let’s move honest here. You keep bringing up the 82 games thing. I don’t think there was a single player on the Capitals this season who played at a high level for 82 plus games. That’s just unsustainable for a human being to do. A lot of our top players took games off this year. It happens almost every season on just about every team.

Orlov should definitely not be the scapegoat after this season. Why you’re up in arms over a guy playing top minutes making $5 million is beyond me. Hell, guys on the 2nd pair have made more money per year than that recently. As others have stated it’s Niskanens age combined with his salary AND his decrease in play. It’s a lot less of a risk to move on from him than it would be Holtby, who is probably number two on the list of potential salary cap casualties.