Post-Game Talk: Caps @ Bolts 11/1 7:00p ET

[g00n]

Burying all the kids to play the supposedly trustworthy veterans all night when the team has no secondary scoring isn't working. Lavi needs to let the kids actually play.

WTF is this hoary old chestnut?

Each team had 4 PPs so special teams were used a decent amount. That affects ice time for rookies.

Then you look at total TOI and yes Protas and Leason understandably are at the bottom but then you have Hathaway and Sprong before getting to CMM who played almost as much as Hagelin. So it was more about the top 2 lines and special teamers being out most, not just "old vets".

Are you complaining about Lavi not rolling 4 lines evenly on a night with 8 PPs, against the 2 time defending champs, and pining for more secondary scoring against maybe best goalie in the game?

Go take a look at shooting %. The secondary scorers are getting shots off at about the same rate. Everyone is WAY behind Ovie and Kuzy in that regard. But the other guys just aren't putting them in the net as much.

Stop blaming the coach because he's not trashing a good lineup just to fulfill your rebuild fetish.

 

[trick9]

I will argue that the goalie in the Coyotes game looked like Vasi in that game. The Caps have a knack of making goalies look like that. We all know that. Vasi wasnt stopping the 1st to Tampa goals either.

Vanecek getting outplayed sounds.....Do you mean to say that he isnt Vezina level yet?

He did. I don't really agree that the Caps have knack of making goalies look like that more than anyone else. We are middle of the pack in terms of shots and 4th in GF this season. Pretty sure our guys know where the net is.

That's exactly what i'm saying. We lost the goaltending duel in this one, and with that the 2 points too. Bolts still don't impress me but Vasilevsky has been really good against us.

 

[txpd]

He did. I don't really agree that the Caps have knack of making goalies look like that more than anyone else. We are middle of the pack in terms of shots and 4th in GF this season. Pretty sure our guys know where the net is.

That's exactly what i'm saying. We lost the goaltending duel in this one, and with that the 2 points too. Bolts still don't impress me but Vasilevsky has been really good against us.

Funny how we perceive stuff. This is from Vogel's pre game for last night. "Lifetime against Washington, Vasilevskiy is 5-6-1 with a 3.45 GAA and a .903 save pct. in a dozen appearances." Meanwhile Karel Vejmelka with 7 NHL games on his resume shut the Caps out over 23 shots in the first two periods v AZ. The Caps have a history of doing that against no name, back up and emergency goalies. Dont ask me. I am not the only one that knows this history.

 

[Rayquaza64]

WTF is this hoary old chestnut?

Each team had 4 PPs so special teams were used a decent amount. That affects ice time for rookies.

Then you look at total TOI and yes Protas and Leason understandably are at the bottom but then you have Hathaway and Sprong before getting to CMM who played almost as much as Hagelin. So it was more about the top 2 lines and special teamers being out most, not just "old vets".

Are you complaining about Lavi not rolling 4 lines evenly on a night with 8 PPs, against the 2 time defending champs, and pining for more secondary scoring against maybe best goalie in the game?

Go take a look at shooting %. The secondary scorers are getting shots off at about the same rate. Everyone is WAY behind Ovie and Kuzy in that regard. But the other guys just aren't putting them in the net as much.

Stop blaming the coach because he's not trashing a good lineup just to fulfill your rebuild fetish.

special teams are the reason why mcmichael is getting less minutes then the average 4th liner? why protas and leason combined got 8 minutes? if scoring is the issue, then why did eller get the most minutes out of every forward? and this has been a problem for laviolette's whole tenure with young guys getting shafted on the TOI spectrum even when Vrana was here. Have an explanation for that?

 

[trick9]

Funny how we perceive stuff. This is from Vogel's pre game for last night. "Lifetime against Washington, Vasilevskiy is 5-6-1 with a 3.45 GAA and a .903 save pct. in a dozen appearances." Meanwhile Karel Vejmelka with 7 NHL games on his resume shut the Caps out over 23 shots in the first two periods v AZ. The Caps have a history of doing that against no name, back up and emergency goalies. Dont ask me. I am not the only one that knows this history.

I'm talking about this season. Vasilevsky was very good against us in the 1st game, wasn't he?

I don't really want to talk about past seasons unless it's the summer of 2018.

 

[Langway]

At the very least Lavi will have to distribute minutes more evenly given that they have three back-to-backs in the next three weeks. He's got to find a way to have more players going at a trusted level and that's not just about injuries. If it weren't the rookies it would be not entirely trusting a player like Sprong. At some point it's got to be less about wanting to avoid a mistake and more about building up tighter attacking team play. Part of that has to come with some risk tolerance. Lavi also needs to find a way to get his beloved checking line producing offensively or else it's just ultimately going to be a drag on team identity. Hustle and defense really only goes so far, particularly when not in possession of a legit franchise netminder.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[tenken00]

Congrats to Ovie!

 

[g00n]

special teams are the reason why mcmichael is getting less minutes then the average 4th liner? why protas and leason combined got 8 minutes? if scoring is the issue, then why did eller get the most minutes out of every forward? and this has been a problem for laviolette's whole tenure with young guys getting shafted on the TOI spectrum even when Vrana was here. Have an explanation for that?

Other than what I already said? You'd have to ask Lavi.

But I don't think last night's TOI was unreasonable or particularly "f*** the young guys" except maybe Protas and Leason as I already mentioned. Did you read what I wrote at all? I disagree with your assessment of CMM's playing time being less than the 4th line.

He played more than Sprong and Hathaway and almost exactly as much as Hagelin who I'd guess got elevated PK time.

Basically you had a complex game with a lot of special teams against a top opponent, and Lavi mostly running the top 2 lines REGARDLESS of age of the players.

Do you guys think we'd have won the game and broken Vasi for 4 or more goals if we'd just iced the top 2 lines less and the bottom 6 more? Really?

 

[SherVaughn30]

Mixed feelings. Caps played great and got nothing for it. Week later and who cares we played well and lost, id rather have a crappy win and 2 points even if it means our board will whine about how we didnt deserve the win for a week.

Seriously guys, you are ripping Vanecek because he got "outplayed" by beast-mode Vasilevsky.? lol. Thats the best goalie in the world right now you know. Check your expectations, will you..

No we are not ripping him for how he played compared to Vasilevskiy. We are ripping him because he's getting exposed for what he really is, a fringe NHL backup goalie. VV gives up some of the most ridiculous rebounds for an NHL goalie(I follow every teams goalies) and his vision/decision making watching the play develop in front of him is poor. The goalie coach is a fraud(he had to take a back seat to Mitch Korn in the '18 Cup Winning Run after being the lead goalie coach) and hasn't worked that well with any Caps goalie since. VV rookie season(21 wins only against the same 7 opponents) was not a norm and I guarantee he won't match it. Phoenix Copley got 16 wins in his rookie year and so did Sammy. VV had 2 strong games to start the season, but has slipped a lot since.

Don't look at the scoreboard and say VV kept us in it. He didn't as it was more the team that played in front of him. Bottom line, VV is a serviceable goalie for the Caps because they poorly managed their salary cap situation preventing them to sign a decent vet to give them goaltending stability and be a mentor for Sammy.

 

[txpd]

At the very least Lavi will have to distribute minutes more evenly given that they have three back-to-backs in the next three weeks. He's got to find a way to have more players going at a trusted level and that's not just about injuries. If it weren't the rookies it would be not entirely trusting a player like Sprong. At some point it's got to be less about wanting to avoid a mistake and more about building up tighter attacking team play. Part of that has to come with some risk tolerance. Lavi also needs to find a way to get his beloved checking line producing offensively or else it's just ultimately going to be a drag on team identity. Hustle and defense really only goes so far, particularly when not in possession of a legit franchise netminder.

Dowd will be back at minimum by the time those back to backs arrive. Yes?

 

[txpd]

special teams are the reason why mcmichael is getting less minutes then the average 4th liner? why protas and leason combined got 8 minutes? if scoring is the issue, then why did eller get the most minutes out of every forward? and this has been a problem for laviolette's whole tenure with young guys getting shafted on the TOI spectrum even when Vrana was here. Have an explanation for that?

If the average 4th liner is Hagelin, its because Hagelin is on PK1. Eller got the most ice time because he got 5:31 of shorthanded TOI. He is on the first two pairs of forwards on the pk and he is on the 3 on 5 pk.

 

[txpd]

No we are not ripping him for how he played compared to Vasilevskiy. We are ripping him because he's getting exposed for what he really is, a fringe NHL backup goalie. VV gives up some of the most ridiculous rebounds for an NHL goalie(I follow every teams goalies) and his vision/decision making watching the play develop in front of him is poor. The goalie coach is a fraud(he had to take a back seat to Mitch Korn in the '18 Cup Winning Run after being the lead goalie coach) and hasn't worked that well with any Caps goalie since. VV rookie season(21 wins only against the same 7 opponents) was not a norm and I guarantee he won't match it. Phoenix Copley got 16 wins in his rookie year and so did Sammy. VV had 2 strong games to start the season, but has slipped a lot since.

Don't look at the scoreboard and say VV kept us in it. He didn't as it was more the team that played in front of him. Bottom line, VV is a serviceable goalie for the Caps because they poorly managed their salary cap situation preventing them to sign a decent vet to give them goaltending stability and be a mentor for Sammy.

A fringe back up goalie?? Ok, Boss. This is going to be a long season of hearing this drum beat because Vanecek is going to keep playing.

 

[SherVaughn30]

I will argue that the goalie in the Coyotes game looked like Vasi in that game. The Caps have a knack of making goalies look like that. We all know that. Vasi wasnt stopping the 1st to Tampa goals either.

Vanecek getting outplayed sounds.....Do you mean to say that he isnt Vezina level yet?

I have to strongly disagree. Vasi would have stopped all 3 of the Bolts goals on the Caps. In fact there are at least a handful of goalies I have seen that could have stopped the 3 Bolts goals. So forget the saying no goalie could have stopped those goals. NHL goaltending is just not stopping the ones you should anymore. If you want that type of goaltending, then you can just go back to the 80's. Goalies now a days are taught to stop the normal shots and the ones you weren't suppose to stop. VV is serviceable, but with his overall play he is really no better than a fringe NHL backup.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Thread on the main boards now 9 pages in length regarding Wilson's actions against Cernak in the waning seconds of the game. There just isn't a suitable emoji offered here for the way I feel regarding such threads and those commenting on it. All I can do is take liberties with the Bull Durham announcer's observations and massage it a bit "Is the modern-day hockey spectator a pale imitation of the great old hockey fans?" The answer is an emphatic YES!

Hockey in the early 70s with the likes of the Flyers and the Bruins was something to watch on NBC on a Sunday afternoon, but today you just get some weak ass threads about some minor bs in a game.

 

[Hivemind]

At the very least Lavi will have to distribute minutes more evenly given that they have three back-to-backs in the next three weeks. He's got to find a way to have more players going at a trusted level and that's not just about injuries. If it weren't the rookies it would be not entirely trusting a player like Sprong. At some point it's got to be less about wanting to avoid a mistake and more about building up tighter attacking team play. Part of that has to come with some risk tolerance. Lavi also needs to find a way to get his beloved checking line producing offensively or else it's just ultimately going to be a drag on team identity. Hustle and defense really only goes so far, particularly when not in possession of a legit franchise netminder.

Preach!!

 

[SherVaughn30]

A fringe back up goalie?? Ok, Boss. This is going to be a long season of hearing this drum beat because Vanecek is going to keep playing.

Well then, get ready to see him exposed more over the course of the season. He will be playing a lot of teams he's never played before. The Caps team D and speed on the back end is far better than last seasons team. They will have to keep up the good play to bail out VV a lot more.

 

[txpd]

Well then, get ready to see him exposed more over the course of the season. He will be playing a lot of teams he's never played before. The Caps team D and speed on the back end is far better than last seasons team. They will have to keep up the good play to bail out VV a lot more.

Yea. He was the guy that got exposed last night. Next subject

 

[txpd]

Thread on the main boards now 9 pages in length regarding Wilson's actions against Cernak in the waning seconds of the game. There just isn't a suitable emoji offered here for the way I feel regarding such threads and those commenting on it. All I can do is take liberties with the Bull Durham announcer's observations and massage it a bit "Is the modern-day hockey spectator a pale imitation of the great old hockey fans?" The answer is an emphatic YES!

Hockey in the early 70s with the likes of the Flyers and the Bruins was something to watch on NBC on a Sunday afternoon, but today you just get some weak ass threads about some minor bs in a game.

The 9 pages has next to nothing to do with what was done and everything to do with who did it. If Tom Wilson blew a lugi on the ice, there were be 20 pages on how he trying to break someone's leg after skating over it. Ok...its time for avatar change. The Caps lost in regulation finally. So,now....Tom Wilson punching a little guy's face.

 

[twabby]

Well then, get ready to see him exposed more over the course of the season. He will be playing a lot of teams he's never played before. The Caps team D and speed on the back end is far better than last seasons team. They will have to keep up the good play to bail out VV a lot more.

I don’t really understand why we expect new teams to expose goaltenders. If anything, I’d expect old teams to expose goaltenders since they’ve had the experience playing with them. But even then I doubt there is any significant difference in save percentage above expected for a first time facing a new team vs. subsequent times facing said team.

 

[g00n]

I don’t really understand why we expect new teams to expose goaltenders. If anything, I’d expect old teams to expose goaltenders since they’ve had the experience playing with them. But even then I doubt there is any significant difference in save percentage above expected for a first time facing a new team vs. subsequent times facing a new team.

Finally we agree on something. How many times have we seen a team have tremendous difficulty cracking an unfamiliar goaltender? There is no book yet.

What's VV's fatal flaw that's going to be the book on him? Rebounds? I keep hearing this complaint every year about every Caps goaltender. IMO it's often confirmation bias or just expecting too much. A low shot around the pillows is going to produce a rebound. A wobbling puck at the chest may not be easily trapped. It happens.

If someone can show me clear evidence of this complaint, and show me how other goaltenders are NOT making the same mistake, then I'll change my tune.

 

[zappa4ever]

1st chance to comment on the game...
Great freaking game, had the effort/forecheck of gms 1-3
couple questionable calls against, the 5-on-3, and Vasi was all TB needed
100% happy with the performance; Sheary/Protas/Leason was a pretty effective line (with the limited time it got)
Willy could've had 4 goals with all the chances he had
Ain't mad at Vanecek, we should've put up a 3-spot or more

Play this way all year we'll finish with 100+ points easily

 

[usiel]

Just a great game by vasi their goaltender play>our goaltender. Also though we had good amount of 10 bell chances and still played played well over all despite all the rooks.

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

VV didn’t play poorly but he did get out played by Vasi, most goaltenders do though, hence why TB has two cups in a row.

 

[txpd]

Sheary/Protas/Leason was a pretty effective line (with the limited time it got)

In what ways did you see them as effective?