News Article: Cap Issues

[SKRusty]

Yet you propose we sign a 6m dollar #4 dman? I don't get it. Are you against UFA spending or for it?

In an ideal franchise you would never need to sign a UFA deal at more than 2M but the issue comes in when you don't have that player to plug into the line-up. If Kylington, Wotherspoon, Kulak, Morrison, or Jokipakka don't rise to the occasion a #4 D-man will be needed. Here is the list of those that could be available. By the time free agency happens there are going to be 3-6 D-men that could fill that role with the 6th being the same gamble Kylington, Wotherspoon etc bring. If you have a contending team with the exception of a goalie and a defenseman are you going to gamble and wait?

Dmitry Kulikov Buffalo Sabres UFA 25 D $4,500,000 $4,333,333
Kevin Shattenkirk St. Louis Blues UFA 27 D $5,200,000 $4,250,000
Michael Stone Arizona Coyotes UFA 26 D $4,000,000 $4,000,000
Michael Del Zotto Philadelphia Flyers UFA 26 D $4,000,000 $3,875,000
Johnny Oduya Dallas Stars M-NTC UFA 34 D $3,750,000 $3,750,000
Ladislav Smid Calgary Flames UFA 30 D $4,000,000 $3,500,000
Rob Scuderi Los Angeles Kings M-NTC UFA 37 D $2,500,000 $3,375,000
Cody Franson Buffalo Sabres UFA 29 D $2,650,000 $3,325,000
Trevor Daley Pittsburgh Penguins UFA 32 D $2,700,000 $3,300,000
Andrew Ference Edmonton Oilers NMC UFA 37 D $3,250,000 $3,250,000
Zbynek Michalek Arizona Coyotes UFA 33 D $3,200,000 $3,200,000
Stephane Robidas Toronto Maple Leafs M-NTC UFA 39 D $2,000,000 $3,000,000
Deryk Engelland Calgary Flames UFA 34 D $2,750,000 $2,916,667
Ron Hainsey Carolina Hurricanes M-NTC UFA 35 D $2,500,000 $2,833,333
Karl Alzner Washington Capitals M-NTC UFA 27 D $2,800,000 $2,800,000
Brendan Smith Detroit Red Wings UFA 27 D $3,250,000 $2,750,000
Jakub Kindl Florida Panthers UFA 29 D $3,000,000 $2,400,000
Roman Polak Toronto Maple Leafs UFA 30 D $2,250,000 $2,250,000
Nick Schultz Philadelphia Flyers UFA 34 D $2,250,000 $2,250,000
Fedor Tyutin Colorado Avalanche UFA 33 D $2,000,000 $2,000,000
John-Michael Liles Boston Bruins UFA 35 D $2,000,000 $2,000,000
Brian Campbell Chicago Blackhawks NMC UFA 37 D $1,500,000 $1,500,000
Tom Gilbert Los Angeles Kings UFA 33 D $1,400,000 $1,400,000
Matt Hunwick Toronto Maple Leafs UFA 31 D $1,200,000 $1,200,000
Robert Bortuzzo St. Louis Blues UFA 27 D $1,050,000 $1,050,000
Philip Larsen Vancouver Canucks UFA 26 D $1,025,000 $1,025,000
Paul Postma Winnipeg Jets UFA 27 D $925,000 $887,500
Michael Kostka Ottawa Senators UFA 30 D $800,000 $800,000
Cody Goloubef Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 26 D $800,000 $750,000
Korbinian Holzer Anaheim Ducks UFA 28 D $700,000 $700,000
Matthew Carle Nashville Predators UFA 31 D $700,000 $700,000
Matt Tennyson Carolina Hurricanes UFA 26 D $675,000 $675,000
Justin Falk Buffalo Sabres UFA 27 D $650,000 $650,000
Jamie McBain Arizona Coyotes UFA 28 D $650,000 $650,000
Victor Bartley Minnesota Wild UFA 28 D $650,000 $650,000
Nate Prosser Minnesota Wild UFA 30 D $650,000 $625,000
Steven Kampfer Florida Panthers UFA 27 D $625,000 $612,500
Mat Clark Colorado Avalanche UFA 25 D $600,000 $600,000
Brad Hunt St. Louis Blues UFA 28 D $600,000 $600,000
Alex Grant Boston Bruins UFA 27 D $600,000 $600,000
Chris Summers New York Rangers UFA 28 D $600,000 $600,000
Michal Rozsival Chicago Blackhawks UFA 38 D $600,000 $600,000
Chris Butler St. Louis Blues UFA 29 D $600,000 $600,000
Brent Regner Florida Panthers UFA 27 D $600,000 $600,000
Taylor Fedun Buffalo Sabres UFA 28 D $600,000 $600,000
Nate Guenin Anaheim Ducks UFA 33 D $600,000 $600,000
Brian Strait Winnipeg Jets UFA 28 D $600,000 $600,000
Mat Bodie New York Rangers UFA 26 D $600,000 $600,000
Tommy Cross Boston Bruins UFA 27 D $600,000 $600,000
Adam Clendening New York Rangers UFA 23 D $600,000 $600,000
56. Ryan Stanton Colorado Avalanche UFA 27 D $600,000 $600,000
57. Dustin Stevenson Dallas Stars UFA 27 D $600,000 $600,000
Chad Billins Vancouver Canucks UFA 27 D $600,000 $600,000
Karl Stollery New Jersey Devils UFA 28 D $575,000 $575,000
Cameron Gaunce Pittsburgh Penguins UFA 26 D $575,000 $575,000
Luke Witkowski Tampa Bay Lightning UFA 26 D $575,000 $575,000
Andrew MacWilliam New Jersey Devils UFA 26 D $575,000 $575,000
Vincent Loverde Los Angeles Kings UFA 27 D $575,000 $575,000
Jeff Schultz Anaheim Ducks UFA 30 D $575,000 $575,000
Steve Oleksy Pittsburgh Penguins UFA 30 D $575,000 $575,000
Ernest "Cameron" Schilling Chicago Blackhawks UFA 27 D $575,000 $575,000
Andrew Campbell Toronto Maple Leafs UFA 28 D $575,000 $575,000
Yannick Weber Nashville Predators UFA 27 D $575,000 $575,000
Matt Irwin Nashville Predators UFA 28 D $575,000 $575,000
Mark Fraser Edmonton Oilers UFA 29 D $575,000 $575,000
Chad Ruhwedel Pittsburgh Penguins UFA 26 D $575,000 $575,000
Dan Kelly San Jose Sharks UFA 27 D $575,000 $575,000
David Warsofsky Pittsburgh Penguins UFA 26 D $575,000 $575,000
Matt Taormina Tampa Bay Lightning UFA 29 D $575,000 $575,000
Erik Burgdoerfer Buffalo Sabres UFA 27 D $575,000 $575,000

UFA's always cost a premium. I thought the Brouwer signing was a waste of good $ when Vey, Prybil, Frolik and Chaisson are available. TBH I think Colborne would have been wiser money spent.

Frolik last year was needed.

He's against rookie bonuses and Gaudreau from what I can see

Maybe to those that are literacy challenged and can't read it may appear that way.

FYI almost anybody can create a spreadsheet and copy and paste numbers from other fan-sites and try to sell the twisted numbers to suit their views like conspiracy theorists always do.

So as to be clear my statement is "The salary cap is intended to be followed and there are fines if the NHL determines you are trying to circumvent the cap. Blatantly disregarding bonuses from the cap equation could allow for sanctions from the league that could include a $5 million fine and reduction of the next seasons teams salary cap by up to $5 million. This was done to illustrate that some shared spreadsheets should not be taken at face value due to inaccuracies."

I reiterate, bonuses can not be disregarded from the salary cap calculations to justify compensation or cap position.

 

[Anglesmith]

Meh, doesn't seem like a significant problem. The Flames have the benefit of a few big contracts coming off the books going into next year, so if they do pick up some more bonuses this year, we should be able to fit them. And if not, all it does is shave <$1M off the cap for next year, but we gain much more than that in expiring contracts.

Still plenty of room to sign Johnny to a fair contract. The key right now is having him sign that contract before training camp.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I came into this thread expecting it to be about a ball "cap" issue. Like maybe it was not adjustable and a wrong size was ordered.

 

[Lunatik]

I came into this thread expecting it to be about a ball "cap" issue. Like maybe it was not adjustable and a wrong size was ordered.

if you use enough gel in your hair you can slide that cap on still

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

if you use enough gel in your hair you can slide that cap on still

If this is a metaphor, I'll stop. I don't want any trouble.

 

[Lunatik]

If this is a metaphor, I'll stop. I don't want any trouble.

No, I was thinking about your slicked back hair

 

[Ace Rimmer]

So, uh, if the Flames sign Gaudreau to a Tarasenko style deal ($7.5 million cap hit) they have about $1 million in cap space, with a bit more than $11.5 million coming off the books next season.

What's the issue?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

So, uh, if the Flames sign Gaudreau to a Tarasenko style deal ($7.5 million cap hit) they have about $1 million in cap space, with a bit more than $11.5 million coming off the books next season.

What's the issue?

That we can't sign Shattenkirk..

I'd take this discussion more serious if it wasn't centred around someone. I'd sooner trade Hamilton before Gaudreau for cap space. Pretty clear motive here.

 

[Snazu]

You haven't even taken into account the cap going up at all. If the cap goes up by like 2%, there's $1.4mill in extra cap space. That takes care of bonus overages. So that leave about $25mill to fill 4 UFA spots, resign a goalie and resign RFA's , Bennett being the big name one. There's no issue here.

 

[Snazu]

That we can't sign Shattenkirk..

I'd take this discussion more serious if it wasn't centred around someone. I'd sooner trade Hamilton before Gaudreau for cap space. Pretty clear motive here.

This. Why exactly do we need to sign Shattenkirk again? Next year we hopefully have at least a couple guys from within to replace the guys we're losing. It's jumping the gun to be worried about the season after the one that hasn't even started yet.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

So let's summarize, the Flames are in cap trouble because:

- Moving Smid to LTIR is a pipe dream.
- Bennett will play at a 60pt pace in a season that hasn't begun yet, therefore will need a 6 million dollar extension.
- Other bonuses will be issued based on a season that hasn't been played yet.
- The near 30 million in cap space we will be gaining next season won't be enough because we need Shattenkirk.
- Because of all this, dealing Gaudreau makes the most sense, not buying out Wideman, not dealing someone else like Frolik or ANY other players to gain cap space.

Basically, all of our problems point to Gaudreau. SK, you claim you have no motives, but yet you make a thread with the sole intent to create controversy around a fan favourite player on the Flames board. Interesting..

 

[SKRusty]

So let's summarize:

- The Flames are in cap trouble because.
-Moving Smid to LTIR is a pipe dream.
-Bennett will play at a 60pt pace in a season that hasn't begun yet, therefore will need a 6 million dollar extension.
- Other bonuses will be issued based on a season that hasn't been played yet.
- The near 30 million in cap space we will be gaining next season won't be enough because we need Shattenkirk.
- Because of all this, dealing Gaudreau makes the most sense, not buying out Wideman. Not dealing someone else like Frolik or ANY other players to gain cap space.

Basically, all our problems point to Gaudreau. You claim you have no motives, but yet you make a thread with the sole intent to create controversy around a fan favourite player on the Flames board. Interesting..

Did I write the article?

Is it a reputable source?

I want Johnny to sign but I am telling you there are several reasons why it is very very very unlikely BT and the Flames will pay JG over 6.75M. This article is part of a story that goes back to last spring. You guys ask for my proof and as it slowly seeps out you keep you heads stuck in the sand.

Johnny comes out the other day and discusses his contract, after he said he would not talk about his contract. Stating how rough it is. Last week somehow the Dollar amounts were made public causing Eric Francis to do a complete 180 and justify why Johnny is worth less. Why ---because Eric Francis was told off the record what the implications are.

Everything you are seeing play out is based on economics. This article today tells you the contracts listed on these fan-sites are not accurate because the terms and amounts of bonuses are not included.

This contract negotiation mirrors PK Subban's contract in 2012-13.

Organizationally JG's is behind Gio, Bennett, Brodie, Monahan, Hamilton, and now Tkachuk in terms of importance.

Bennett, Monahan, Hamilton, and Tkachuk have been projected to exceed Johnny in terms of talent and organizational importance according to the model created when this rebuild started.

 

[Volica]

Johnny behind the three dmen, Mony, Bennett and Tkachuk. Haha.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Bennett, Monahan, Hamilton, and Tkachuk have been projected to exceed Johnny in terms of talent and organizational importance according to the model created when this rebuild started.

Wingers aren't important, or so I hear.

Unless I've just come out of a coma and Tkachuk has two years of proven NHL experience under his belt.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Sure, you want Gaudreau to sign.

No you didn't write that article, but it also fits your agenda. It is your opinion however that Gaudreau is behind Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk in terms of organizational importance. That is without question a fictional and incorrect narrative based on your part, and largely a reason why I suspect you have a motive.

 

[Lunatik]

Sure, you want Gaudreau to sign.

No you didn't write that article, but it also fits your agenda. It is your opinion however that Gaudreau is behind Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk in terms of organizational importance. That is without question a fictional and incorrect narrative based on your part, and largely a reason why I suspect you have a motive.

behind Shattenkirk too!

 

[SKRusty]

Johnny behind the three dmen, Mony, Bennett and Tkachuk. Haha.

Volica you can laugh all you want but it is true.

Gio- If it weren't for injuries would likely have already won a Norris. Is near the top of the league for almost all stats in the last 5 years. Is Calgary's leader.

Brodie - You have all said it. Brodie is on the cusp of being mentioned in the Norris and likely has the best valued contract in hockey.

Hamilton - Is the heir apparent for Gio's spot on the top pairing. Is a month and a half older than Johnny playing a way more difficult position. Made the Bruins as a 19 year old. Incredibly rare for D-men

Monahan - A year younger than Johnny playing a more demanding position. Leads all scorers in his class that includes Barkov, MacKinnon, Seth Jones, Drouin, Lindholm and Max Domi. (Made the team as an 18 yr old)

Sam Bennett - Calgary's highest draft pick ever. Plays center. Doggedly determined despite shoulder surgery. Equaled Monahan's rookie year production. 3 Years younger than Johnny.

Matthew Tkachuk - Proven winner. Proven playoff performer. 40 Points in 18 games in the playoffs. 8 points in the Memorial Cup in 4 games. On pace to make the team as an 18 year old.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

SK, so we are all on the same page, you have a personal inside source with the Flames to the point that they tell you who they value the most?

I just want to make sure whether or not you're quoting how they value individual players or its how you value them? Because to me, a 22 year old winger that finished 6th in league scoring and is ripping up the World Cup and is getting high price from the leagues leading scorer would be valued fairly highly by every team in the NHL.

 

[L13]

Volica you can laugh all you want but it is true.

Gio- If it weren't for injuries would likely have already won a Norris. Is near the top of the league for almost all stats in the last 5 years. Is Calgary's leader. You know who else is "near the top of the league"? I bet you don't. Johnny Gaudreau!

Brodie - You have all said it. Brodie is on the cusp of being mentioned in the Norris and likely has the best valued contract in hockey. Okay... Gaudreau is on the cusp of being mentioned for the US presidency. Now what?

Hamilton - Is the heir apparent for Gio's spot on the top pairing. Is a month and a half older than Johnny playing a way more difficult position. Made the Bruins as a 19 year old. Incredibly rare for D-men None of this explains why he's more important than Gaudreau...???

Monahan - A year younger than Johnny playing a more demanding position. Leads all scorers in his class that includes Barkov, MacKinnon, Seth Jones, Drouin, Lindholm and Max Domi. (Made the team as an 18 yr old) None of this explains why he's more important than Gaudreau...???

Sam Bennett - Calgary's highest draft pick ever. Plays center. Doggedly determined despite shoulder surgery. Equaled Monahan's rookie year production. 3 Years younger than Johnny. None of this explains why he's more important than Gaudreau...???

Matthew Tkachuk - Proven winner. Proven playoff performer. 40 Points in 18 games in the playoffs. 8 points in the Memorial Cup in 4 games. On pace to make the team as an 18 year old. Tkachuk has a Memorial Cup. Gaudreau has an NCAA title and a WJC gold. Despite being a "proven playoff performer" Tkachuk has never played in the NHL playoffs. Gaudreau did as rookie and was the Flames' best player. In summary: None of this explains why he's more important than Gaudreau...??? "Proven winner" is a nonsense concept, by the way.

So in summary you think a bunch of Flames players are more important to the team than Gaudreau because they are three years younger than him... or a month and a half older... or eight years older... or because they're defencemen... or centres... or wingers... or because even if they're not in the NHL yet they've already "proven" they could win the Memorial Cup playing second fiddle on the most stacked team in junior hockey.

Good to know.

 

[Lunatik]

SK, so we are all on the same page, you have a personal inside source with the Flames to the point that they tell you who they value the most?

I just want to make sure whether or not you're quoting how they value individual players or its how you value them? Because to me, a 22 year old winger that finished 6th in league scoring and is ripping up the World Cup and is getting high price from the leagues leading scorer would be valued fairly highly by every team in the NHL.

I have to question the judgement of anyone who values Tkachuk more than Gaudreau at this point in their careers.

 

[Snazu]

Volica you can laugh all you want but it is true.

Gio- If it weren't for injuries would likely have already won a Norris. Is near the top of the league for almost all stats in the last 5 years. Is Calgary's leader.

Brodie - You have all said it. Brodie is on the cusp of being mentioned in the Norris and likely has the best valued contract in hockey.

Hamilton - Is the heir apparent for Gio's spot on the top pairing. Is a month and a half older than Johnny playing a way more difficult position. Made the Bruins as a 19 year old. Incredibly rare for D-men

Monahan - A year younger than Johnny playing a more demanding position. Leads all scorers in his class that includes Barkov, MacKinnon, Seth Jones, Drouin, Lindholm and Max Domi. (Made the team as an 18 yr old)

Sam Bennett - Calgary's highest draft pick ever. Plays center. Doggedly determined despite shoulder surgery. Equaled Monahan's rookie year production. 3 Years younger than Johnny.

Matthew Tkachuk - Proven winner. Proven playoff performer. 40 Points in 18 games in the playoffs. 8 points in the Memorial Cup in 4 games. On pace to make the team as an 18 year old.

Gio and Brodie will probably never win a Norris for the same reason MacInnis didn't win until he was traded to St Louis. Calgary just doesn't get the same media attention out east as some of these other teams do so our players just don't get the votes and alot of the players fly under the radar. Gaudreau is one of the few players that is almost as popular out east as he is in Calagary. In the end, Gaudreau will end up with more NHL awards than all of these guys put together.

Hamilton excels at his position but if you compare just statistically, Hamilton ranks 23rd last season and 23rd the season before Gaudreau ranked 2nd behind only Jamie Benn for scoring for LWers last season, the year before he ranked 9th. If you compare him to both RW and LW positions, he comes out tied for 3rd last season and tied for 11th the season before. I'd say that comparing the 2, statistically, gaudreau comes out as one of the top wingers in the game for the 2 seasons he's been in the league.

As for Monahan being the highest scoring player from his draft class, Gaudreau is already up to 10th highest in his draft class and most of the players ahead of him had a 2 or 3 year start. If you go simply by his PPG, he has .894 in his career. That blows all players in his draft class away. The next closest would be Nugent-Hopkins with a .709, so comparing the 2, Monahan has excelled for sure, but Gaudreau is already 16 points back of Monahan with 77 fewer GP than Monahan.

As for what you're saying about Bennett and Tkachuk, Gaudreau has also won championships in his career as well, winning the whole thing is the USHL in 10-11 season and coming in as the 3rd highest scorer in the playoffs with 11 points in 11 games. In 11-12 season, his team won the national championship. He scored 5 points in the 4 games.

He is the Flames most marketable player they've had since Iginla and he's the new face of the franchise. He's already as well known as Iginla ever was as a Flames throughout the league and among fans. It would be just plain stupid to trade him. He makes all players around him better. I can only dream about what it would've looked like if him and Iginla in his prime could've played together. He's the playmaker the Flames were looking for for about 10 years with Iginla. With him on their team, they have so many young players that could be doing damage throughout the league for years to come.

 

[tmurfin]

In an ideal franchise you would never need to sign a UFA deal at more than 2M but the issue comes in when you don't have that player to plug into the line-up. If Kylington, Wotherspoon, Kulak, Morrison, or Jokipakka don't rise to the occasion a #4 D-man will be needed. Here is the list of those that could be available. By the time free agency happens there are going to be 3-6 D-men that could fill that role with the 6th being the same gamble Kylington, Wotherspoon etc bring. If you have a contending team with the exception of a goalie and a defenseman are you going to gamble and wait?



UFA's always cost a premium. I thought the Brouwer signing was a waste of good $ when Vey, Prybil, Frolik and Chaisson are available. TBH I think Colborne would have been wiser money spent.

I'm sorry but you're still way off. I would MUCH rather have our SUPERSTAR top winger @7mil and a subpar/fringe #4, than be forced to lose our top offensive player, just to overpay someone.

Makes absolutely no sense. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul (paying him way too much at that).

 

[Skobel24]

I'm sorry but you're still way off. I would MUCH rather have our SUPERSTAR top winger @7mil and a subpar/fringe #4, than be forced to lose our top offensive player, just to overpay someone.

Makes absolutely no sense. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul (paying him way too much at that).

Leave the Stastny family out of this.

 

[Anglesmith]

Oh look. This thread is about Gaudreau.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2114821