Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM | All in Allvin?

[Vector]

I believe Friedman has echoed the smoke around Zadarov. Something is going on.

Friedman and Brough have heard vague rumblings but it just doesn't make any sense. As part of a defensive upgrade for someone with term? Sure, I get that. But it's being framed as a way to carve out capspace and that's ludicrous.

 

[Wisp]

. But it's being framed as a way to carve out capspace and that's ludicrous.

Kuzmenko+Zadarov together make the same as Crosby!

 

[Slapshot_11]

I believe Friedman has echoed the smoke around Zadarov. Something is going on.

Nothings happening

 

[sting101]

They represent effectively $10M in total cap. That's almost $3M in total cap hit more than the entire third line. I don't really have an issue with Mikheyev as a player even though he's a shadow of his former self, but given the outperformance of other contracts, you simply have to rely on the pro-scouting to get better value out of those contracts. He is an overpaid third liner and the value discrepancy is even more blatant given the pro-scouting success this past summer.

Given the Canucks salary cap situation, and the pending free agents (both restricted and unrestricted) you don't have the luxury of having salary inefficiency like Kuzmenko and Mikheyev on the roster after this season.

In fact, if you want to meaningfully add to the roster heading into the playoffs, you really have to move Kuzmenko right now.

What do you think Joshua and Blueger will be paid next year and then get back to me on the 3 million comment. If you're solely looking at this season then sure but i don't tend to build comparison models from 50 games that form any longer term arguments.

He's not just a 3rd liner and yes the ACL has slowed him down somewhat which makes the "blatant value discrepancy" critique comment odd. The play of Kuzmenko and his injury are relevant are they not? He has middle six scoring talent but labelling him a 3rd liner is the same as labelling Joshua as a 4th liner right now. He simply has been producing as a 5-7 forward with plus defensive play since he's been here.

Any trade can be made with retention and we do have 1.2 in space plus 800k from whoever gets demoted. You could move Myers Zadorov or Cole also if they need space but i would suspect they want the defensive depth.

They're always inefficiencies and they can change as the days do. I'm not disagreeing that Kuzmenko and Mikhayev are overpaid currently just that it might be very expensive to replace them with efficient contracts that are better players and the season is long and players can drop off while others step up. I definitely can see why Kuzmenko's name is starting to circulate as it's becoming a problem effecting an entire line with the teams most talented forward on it

What are the trades and moves you propose

 

[Nucker101]

Friedman and Brough have heard vague rumblings but it just doesn't make any sense. As part of a defensive upgrade for someone with term? Sure, I get that. But it's being framed as a way to carve out capspace and that's ludicrous.

This. Nothing wrong with the team already trying to get an idea of what kind of deals would be out there if they land a big fish and need to clear cap space, that's very different than suggesting that they're actively shopping the player around, but of course in this market, that's what people choose to run with.

This is management just doing its due diligence by preparing for multiple scenarios before the TDL.

 

[Jyrki]

If Z is on the move it only makes sense to do it for a big upgrade. His capspace is already used adequately.

That said, beats me who could be the target. It would make a lot more sense to move one of Kuz/Mik and package futures with them instead because it'll be hard to move out Z and plug all the holes left behind, even if it's an upgrade on the net.

 

[Vector]

Kuzmenko+Zadarov together make the same as Crosby!

You know who actually fits their exact cap hit? Darnell Nurse.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Friedman and Brough have heard vague rumblings but it just doesn't make any sense. As part of a defensive upgrade for someone with term? Sure, I get that. But it's being framed as a way to carve out capspace and that's ludicrous.

If it sets up a move, it makes sense. They could flip him for assets that are then used to get the RHD they want (a la Hronek).

Putting an equivalent player on the right side is a net defensive upgrade imo.

 

[Vector]

If it sets up a move, it makes sense. They could flip him for assets that are then used to get the RHD they want (a la Hronek).

Putting an equivalent player on the right side is a net defensive upgrade imo.

They are not going to get anymore assets than what they gave up (3rd & 5th). There's not an equivalent player on the market on the right side either. As I said, it only makes sense if you're upgrading a position. A trade would have to happen extremely close together, like with Beauvillier, or around when Soucy gets back. Management isn't going to purposefully weaken the line-up for nebulous cap space.

 

[F A N]

Bizarre to move Zadarov right now. Just use him as a self rental for the playoffs. It's not like they paid a ton to acquire him and he fills an obvious need when things get more physical over the course of a 7-game series.

Agreed. Only thing I can think of is that the Canucks are looking at an upgrade at the D position or that Zadorov really wants an extension signed. In his own words, Zadorov said the reason he wanted out of Calgary was because of a lack of contract offer. I would imagine the Canucks had an idea of what his contract demands are at the time of acquisition and that Zadorov's camp knows that a strong playoff performance on a top team would earn him more money.

The acquisition cost is something the Canucks should be willing to pay to add a Dman like Zadorov.

 

[TruGr1t]

What do you think Joshua and Blueger will be paid next year and then get back to me on the 3 million comment. If you're solely looking at this season then sure but i don't tend to build comparison models from 50 games that form any longer term arguments.

He's not just a 3rd liner and yes the ACL has slowed him down somewhat which makes the "blatant value discrepancy" critique comment odd. The play of Kuzmenko and his injury are relevant are they not? He has middle six scoring talent but labelling him a 3rd liner is the same as labelling Joshua as a 4th liner right now. He simply has been producing as a 5-7 forward with plus defensive play since he's been here.

Any trade can be made with retention and we do have 1.2 in space plus 800k from whoever gets demoted. You could move Myers Zadorov or Cole also if they need space but i would suspect they want the defensive depth.

They're always inefficiencies and they can change as the days do. I'm not disagreeing that Kuzmenko and Mikhayev are overpaid currently just that it might be very expensive to replace them with efficient contracts that are better players and the season is long and players can drop off while others step up. I definitely can see why Kuzmenko's name is starting to circulate as it's becoming a problem effecting an entire line with the teams most talented forward on it

What are the trades and moves you propose

I'm not into armchairing, so don't really do proposals. The pro-scouting department has proven fairly adept at daylighting value thus far. So they'll just have to do it again. If they're serious about adding a Guentzel for instance, Kuzmenko must go.

And you have to make the tough decisions on Joshua, Blueger and Zadorov ... that's what makes this path difficult. They will be year-on-year in a position where they must be this successful daylighting value in trade and free agency because the core players will be in their prime earning years. That doesn't give you the luxury of having the Mikheyev and Kuzmenko types around unless they outperform their contracts.

You need ELCs and guys on Joshua, Blueger and Suter-type deals to make this work.

Even Garland, who I think has performed admirably this season, may be a cap casualty this summer.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Gonna laugh when JR and Allvin get more for Z than Conroy did.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

 

[TruGr1t]

Gonna laugh when JR and Allvin get more for Z than Conroy did.

I think it's likely if they do move him, though that's probably largely attributable to the fortuitous timing of Zadorov's trade request and the falling out in Calgary since Vancouver basically emerged as the only option with the Leafs being unable to accommodate salary. I'd expect more teams to have flexibility around the trade deadline line.

 

[Peen]

This. Nothing wrong with the team already trying to get an idea of what kind of deals would be out there if they land a big fish and need to clear cap space, that's very different than suggesting that they're actively shopping the player around, but of course in this market, that's what people choose to run with.

This is management just doing its due diligence by preparing for multiple scenarios before the TDL.

Could that not be the same shit? Maybe a team with x player doesn’t want Zad’s cap either, so they just want to move him separately and then instantly acquire his replacement.

 

[Bleach Clean]

They are not going to get anymore assets than what they gave up (3rd & 5th). There's not an equivalent player on the market on the right side either. As I said, it only makes sense if you're upgrading a position. A trade would have to happen extremely close together, like with Beauvillier, or around when Soucy gets back. Management isn't going to purposefully weaken the line-up for nebulous cap space.

Could be my recollection, but wasn't the 3rd+5th seen as being cheap at the time of trade?

I agree, the cap space move would happen when Soucy is back or close to returning.

Is Connor Murphy equivalent? Colin Miller? Sean Walker? It depends upon what you think is equivalent. Maybe they go in the opposite direction to the Beauvillier trade get a winger, like Toffoli? Then offload Kuzmenko for a dman.

 

[Nucker101]

this is from 2021 my guy

 

[Russian_fanatic]

this is from 2021 my guy

Yeah Quinn is missing the Canucks logo he got tattooed on his chest this past summer.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

They'll wait until Soucy's returns, likely before March 8th, and then move on from Zadarov.

Also, a lateral move for a RHD still improves this team in a net sense. Especially if Zadorov is in tough to beat Juulsen out for a right side spot.

I'm not sure moving Zadorov for a RHD necessarily improve the team in a net sense (all depending on who we target, and the acquisition cost). Soucy has been injured twice already so far this season. The depth on the left side after Hughes isn't that deep, if we trade Zadorov, we have Soucy, Cole and....Wolanin/Brisbois as our #4/5 option? I don't think Cole should be playing too many minutes, so keeping Zadorov for LHD depth might be prudent. Both Z and Cole can also play the right side, and behind them we have Myers, Juulsen (now an acceptable bottom pairing D) and Friedman (decent as a #5 option on the right side). I like the versatility of both Z and Cole being able to play both sides.

Unless for a clear upgrade, I prefer to keep Z, even though I'm not his biggest fan and definitely want nothing to do with an extension near his asking price.

 

[Peen]

@sandwichbird2023 Zad said he doesn’t feel comfortable playing the right recently IIRC.

But cole looked fine there to me.

I think it’s a tough call and you’re damned if you do with all three options, but they should make a move for a legitimate top four D here and someone has to go

(I still would move one of Myers/Cole ahead of Zad) but chemistry is a thing and those guys have tenure on Zad. All of them won’t be back next year and the rental cost of Zad is nothing in the big picture

 

[ziploc]

I'm not sure major surgery on this roster is the best move, given that they currently lead the NHL. We all know the weak spots - everyone in the league knows the weak spots - but every team has weak spots. I think there is an equal danger of upsetting the team's equilibrium by doing too much as there is not taking advantage of the moment and failing to improve the roster.

Moving Zad at this point would appear to be some pretty major surgery, because it only makes sense if you are bringing in an equivalent dman for less money so you can allocate cap elsewhere; or you are somehow bringing in a clearly superior dman, which likely necessitates moving other salary as well.

I could see moving picks and B prospects (maybe an A prospect for a slamdunk deal), and one or both of Mikh and Kuz, depending on who is coming back.

 

[Vector]

Could be my recollection, but wasn't the 3rd+5th seen as being cheap at the time of trade?

I agree, the cap space move would happen when Soucy is back or close to returning.

Is Connor Murphy equivalent? Colin Miller? Sean Walker? It depends upon what you think is equivalent. Maybe they go in the opposite direction to the Beauvillier trade get a winger, like Toffoli? Then offload Kuzmenko for a dman.

3rd + 5th is cheap but accommodating his caphit is the issue as it was for the Flames. Canucks are also in no position to retain or take on salary. And no, I don't think any of those three would improve the team considering the unique skillset Zadorov brings.

Timing would be the most important factor.

 

[Vector]

this is from 2021 my guy

He's in the centre of the picture, though!

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm not sure moving Zadorov for a RHD necessarily improve the team in a net sense (all depending on who we target, and the acquisition cost). Soucy has been injured twice already so far this season. The depth on the left side after Hughes isn't that deep, if we trade Zadorov, we have Soucy, Cole and....Wolanin/Brisbois as our #4/5 option? I don't think Cole should be playing too many minutes, so keeping Zadorov for LHD depth might be prudent. Both Z and Cole can also play the right side, and behind them we have Myers, Juulsen (now an acceptable bottom pairing D) and Friedman (decent as a #5 option on the right side). I like the versatility of both Z and Cole being able to play both sides.

Unless for a clear upgrade, I prefer to keep Z, even though I'm not his biggest fan and definitely want nothing to do with an extension near his asking price.

Cole hasn't done too well on the right side, and I don't believe they've even tried Zadarov on the right yet (iirc).

I think Juulsen's recent dependability has management scrutinizing Zadarov more closely. Do they sit Juulsen in a tight playoff game, with his PK ability, in favour of Zadorov playing the offside? Not sure. If they think it's an even decision, then I understand them looking at their options.

But hey, he might not get traded and is used as the insurance you suggest (I suggested a week back too). I just think they would try to shore up the side with Hronek-Myers-Juulsen rather than the side with Hughes-Soucy-Cole. Let's see.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Why is Don so obnoxious. Shut the f*** up and let Dhaliwal speak his bullshit