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[arttk]

To me, it's always about how much money you have at the outset. Then the next question is do we need to create more space in order to get our targets. The final check is do we want to part with the assets or future capspace (via buyout) in order to create that space.

You can look at it differently but I feel it's very important to not lose sight of the one knowable, available cap space, when building out a fantasy GM roster.

The thing is that is not how it will play out because the targets you want you might be able to get. So in reality it's going to be, ok we want to get this guy for Petey, ok we got him and now we need to move people off to free up cap because we are over and you do that for every position you are prioritizing.

 

[Jerry the great]

I mean at that point you are just trading off having a better 3C vs having a better 3LD. You can argue that we are one Miller/Petey injury away from having Bluegar in your top6. Also the tradeoff is shifting Soucy's money over to the right side to get Tanev back. So yeah, less LD depth but better RD depth.

you're relying on a 34 year old to anchor a 2nd pair (or you're betting Zadorov's current level of play is his new baseline and he'll be the anchor?) and a 35 year old to anchor your 3rd pair. IMO, that's a way riskier bet than assuming Miller and Pettersson will be mostly healthy.

 

[Nucker101]

I mean at that point you are just trading off having a better 3C vs having a better 3LD. You can argue that we are one Miller/Petey injury away from having Bluegar in your top6. Also the tradeoff is shifting Soucy's money over to the right side to get Tanev back. So yeah, less LD depth but better RD depth.

Better 3C how? Lindholm? He's going to be making well over Soucy AAV so that's apples to oranges anyway. With Soucy I can upgrade wingers with much more ease than with keeping Lindholm.

 

[arttk]

you're relying on a 34 year old to anchor a 2nd pair (or you're betting Zadorov's current level of play is his new baseline and he'll be the anchor?) and a 35 year old to anchor your 3rd pair. IMO, that's a way riskier bet than assuming Miller and Pettersson will be mostly healthy.

I mean we have Ian cole anchoring the 2nd pair right now and he's 34 no? What's the difference by letting Tanev anchor the 2nd pair with Zadorov?

It's not like let's just nuke our 3rd paring because it's fun. It's a conscious tradeoff to improve the roster somewhere else and it's not like I am proposing to just get below replacement guys on the 3rd paring. If pro scouting is actually good, trust them to get some guys that are cheap and fill those 3rd paring minutes and hope DPetey and Willander can fill it soon.

Better 3C how? Lindholm? He's going to be making well over Soucy AAV so that's apples to oranges anyway. With Soucy I can upgrade wingers with much more ease than with keeping Lindholm.

Yes Lindholm is a better center than Bluegar and yes he can probably fill in as a 2C if one of Miller/Petey goes down. I think his pt production will probalby go back up if we get a better PP coach.

 

[Nucker101]

Yea buying out Mikheyev is the most obvious play here. He’s providing replacement level production and saving $2.5M and $1.5M the next two seasons after replacing him is the way to go. Then you can play “replace Soucy dumpster diving” when Mikheyev’s cap penalty becomes a slight detriment.

Only way moving Soucy makes sense is if you’re making a bigger play for someone like Guentzel, and you need to shed that $2M off the bottom of the roster.

Yeah that's fair.

Side point, I love Guentzel but his contract is probably going to be too pricey for my liking.

 

[Nucker101]

Yes Lindholm is a better center than Bluegar and yes he can probably fill in as a 2C if one of Miller/Petey goes down. I think his pt production will probalby go back up if we get a better PP coach.

I agree that he is, but then comprising him as a 3C luxury vs Soucy 3LD luxury is pretty unfair when Lindholm will make almost double Soucy's AAV.

Your actual argument is that Lindholm is better than Soucy + 2-3M in cap space which could be used to potentially add 2 new wingers instead of 1 or be used to add a top 6 winger + another 3C type.

 

[Jerry the great]

I mean we have Ian cole anchoring the 2nd pair right now and he's 34 no? What's the difference by letting Tanev anchor the 2nd pair with Zadorov?

It's not like let's just nuke our 3rd paring because it's fun. It's a conscious tradeoff to improve the roster somewhere else and it's not like I am proposing to just get below replacement guys on the 3rd paring. If pro scouting is actually good, trust them to get some guys that are cheap and fill those 3rd paring minutes and hope DPetey and Willander can fill it soon.

Cole (35) is 5th in TOI/G (6th at ES) and is playing ~ the same as #6 Soucy. And he is fadinggggggggggg badly and has been for a while.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yeah that's fair.

Side point, I love Guentzel but his contract is probably going to be too pricey for my liking.

Yea I can’t really see Guentzel taking anything less than $9M on a longterm deal.

I think the obvious biggest question is Filip Hronek’s situation. Does anyone know if he can be dealt after an arbitration award?

 

[theguardianII]

Age, think of the age of players.
I think we want a team that competes for a cup for more than two or three years. A real contender.

• Arbitration Ruling:
  • Player & Club can settle on a deal at any point prior to the commencement of the hearing (Prior to the 2020 MOU, a settlement could be made at any point prior to the arbitration decision)
  • Once the hearing has taken place, the Salary Arbitration decision must be issued by email within 48 hrs of the closing [CBA 12.9(n)(i)]
  • Arbitration awards can only be 1 or 2 years in length [CBA 12.10(a)&(b)]
  • The party (Player or Club) who did not elect for Arbitration decides on the awarded term [CBA 12.10(a)&(b)]
  • Players who are in their final year Restricted Free Agency are only entitled to a 1 year term.
  • Club cannot walk away from a Club elected Arbitration Settlement [CBA 12.10(e)]
  • Player elected Arbitration Settlements of 1 year and greater than $4,538,958, Club can walk away from the awarded salary, making the player a UFA [CBA 12.10(a)]
  • Player elected Arbitration Settlements of 2 years and greater than $4,538,958, Club can walk away from the second (2nd) year of the awarded salary, making the player a UFA at the end of year 1 [CBA 12.10(b)]

 

[Nucker101]

Yea I can’t really see Guentzel taking anything less than $9M on a longterm deal.

I think the obvious biggest question is Filip Hronek’s situation. Does anyone know if he can be dealt after an arbitration award?

I believe he can be traded if the team signs him to his arbitration awarded contract.

 

[Vector]

The thing is that is not how it will play out because the targets you want you might be able to get. So in reality it's going to be, ok we want to get this guy for Petey, ok we got him and now we need to move people off to free up cap because we are over and you do that for every position you are prioritizing.

That is not how it plays out unless an unexpected opportunity arises. Allvin has consistently been active in moving out contracts in order to increase capspace to acquire their targets, not acquire targets then move out contracts (OEL buyout in which they tried to move out other contracts, Beauvillier to get Zadorov, as two examples). The exceptions have been the Dickinson & Pearson trades and both of those occurred during training and included a player they wanted.

Allvin and Rutherford have pretty frequently talked about not putting themselves at a disadvantage when moving contracts and their actions have backed this up.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Good post it amazes me how much people are willing to skirt facts for narratives once the in fashion thing to do is shit on someone.

It's right back to the rebuild crowd of last year who bitched and moaned about Tocchet and the Hronek trade to no end. Difference being that because we're division champs that crowd has gone silent until we get knocked out.

Could you imagine being hired as a GM and another as President with your interviews being centered around competing with the Sedins et all and then just going with Lack and Markstrom who was struggling to be a NHL goalie at the time? Vrbata and Miller were good signings the core was just too old with no one to take the reigns

vrbata went sideways big time in year two. still not sure why but he checked out. the idea of signing miller was a good retool move. the retool fizzled due to other bad moves.

i bitched and moaned about tochett and hronek a fair bit, but i was wrong.

 

[Jerry the great]

I believe he can be traded if the team signs him to his arbitration awarded contract.

yeah, it's the offer sheet matching that locks a player up for a year.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I believe he can be traded if the team signs him to his arbitration awarded contract.

I would want to avoid arbitration at all costs, but if I’m Allvin I’m not worried about threatening to trade Hronek at any point.

The guy has an injury history and is coming off his best season playing alongside arguably the best defenseman in the league this year. Can he argue he helped Hughes get there? Sure. But do Hronek and his agent want to risk him becoming the next Klingberg if Vancouver trades him on a 1 year deal to somewhere like Anaheim or Utah?

 

[krutovsdonut]

It does not surprise me that you two think this.

and it does not surprise me that your comeback is devoid of substance and relies on simplistic snark.

 

[arttk]

I agree that he is, but then comprising him as a 3C luxury vs Soucy 3LD luxury is pretty unfair when Lindholm will make almost double Soucy's AAV.

Your actual argument is that Lindholm is better than Soucy + 2-3M in cap space which could be used to potentially add 2 new wingers instead of 1 or be used to add a top 6 winger + another 3C type.

well i didn't say Soucy is luxury, i said keeping both Garland and Joshua as luxury.
i really just Soucy as a painful sacrifice.

2-3M will get you a decent winger but nothing really special.

 

[Nucker101]

well i didn't say Soucy is luxury, i said keeping both Garland and Joshua as luxury.
i really just Soucy as a painful sacrifice.

2-3M will get you a decent winger but nothing really special.

Fair, we’ll have to agree to disagree regarding Garland and Joshua.

 

[krutovsdonut]

That is not how it plays out unless an unexpected opportunity arises. Allvin has consistently been active in moving out contracts in order to increase capspace to acquire their targets, not acquire targets then move out contracts (OEL buyout in which they tried to move out other contracts, Beauvillier to get Zadorov, as two examples). The exceptions have been the Dickinson & Pearson trades and both of those occurred during training and included a player they wanted.

Allvin and Rutherford have pretty frequently talked about not putting themselves at a disadvantage when moving contracts and their actions have backed this up.

what moves after the fact did the dickinson and pearson trades open up? i though both moves were to get cap compliant at camp.

 

[Vector]

what moves after the fact did the dickinson and pearson trades open up? i though both moves were to get cap compliant at camp.

That is why they are exceptions.

 

[krutovsdonut]

That is why they are exceptions.

i am really having problems reading your posts.

 

[Vector]

i am really having problems reading your posts.

It’s okay. I frequently have problems writing them.

 

[MS]

Could you imagine being hired as a GM and another as President with your interviews being centered around competing with the Sedins et all and then just going with Lack and Markstrom who was struggling to be a NHL goalie at the time? Vrbata and Miller were good signings the core was just too old with no one to take the reigns

Yes. Absolutely. 100%

Those were two quality young NHL goalies. Teams run with stuff like this all the time.

There were so, so many bigger problems with that team that needed addressing to compete that mattered more than replacing young average goaltending with old average goaltending at a massively higher cost.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yes. Absolutely. 100%

Those were two quality young NHL goalies. Teams run with stuff like this all the time.

There were so, so many bigger problems with that team that needed addressing to compete that mattered more than replacing young average goaltending with old average goaltending at a massively higher cost.

I mean yeah, but you’d think that if the team failed and missed the playoffs, our GM would trade a decent goalie in Miller who was set to become a UFA right? Right??

 

[MS]

I mean yeah, but you’d think that if the team failed and missed the playoffs, our GM would trade a decent goalie in Miller who was set to become a UFA right? Right??

Yes, after 14-15 when Lack outplayed Miller at a fraction of the cost but we had Yannick Weber playing in our top-4 it should have been dead f***ing obvious that you trade the expensive goalie and invest in more defensive depth.

 

[credulous]

Playing with capfriendly just now, I managed the following with only 1M over the cap on an assumed 87.7M cap

Lindholm: 7x7
Hronek: 7.3x5
Zadorov: 5x6
Joshua: 3x7
Silovs: 1.1x2
Toffoli: 4.4x4
Tanev: 3.5x4

Mikheyev was dumped, and Blueger, DeSmith, Myers, Cole and Lafferty all were let go.

so you're gonna run an 19 man roster?

they have 29.5m in cap space if they move mikheyev with miller, pettersson, boeser, garland, suter, hoglander, aman, pdg up front and hughes, soucy and juulsen on the blueline. you're 2-3 forwards and 1-2 dmen short and 3m over the cap