Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | A True Playoff Team

[Just A Bit Outside]

Sucks we blew so much capital on Lindholm.

Would love for the Nucks to go hard after Tkachuk in the offseason.

Likely be outbid by other teams anyway but one can dream.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[Hodgy]

RE the bolded: Yes. Literally yes. I asked someone to critique Pettersson's play without reference to points, and he literally parroted points and plus/minus back to me. Incredible. Most people arguing against Petey in this thread are using pure point production as their primary or only evidence.

There is nuance in argument. I'm not saying that Petey's play has not declined at times. In fact, I literally said it has. I literally am not rejecting this notion. I agree with parts of it.

People are claiming he has been bad based on their viewing of his play, and have cited his counting stats which are consistent with that claim. Honestly, I don't think it should be a very contentious opinion that Pettersson has looked poor since the deadline, and again, the counting stats back this up. I'd be surprised if anyone who has watched Pettersson his whole career thinks he's looked good or average, compared to how he can play. Now, people can go into specifics, and talk about how he isn't beating players with his speed, or generally moving his feet enough with the puck, but honestly, I don't think this level of detail should even be required since I think it should be pretty obvious, to anyone watching, that he hasn't been good over the past couple months.

If Petterrson had looked average or good, but had bad counting stats, then I would 100% be with you for asking for further critiques. But when he looks bad, and the counting stats aren't good, then I really don't think the onus is on the critic to make any further arguments like you seem to think it is.

My point is that the main arguments against Petey are incredibly simplistic, basic, and dumb. They almost entirely point to point production exclusively.

In the context, they are not dumb though. Pettersson has looked bad since the deadline, and his counting stats are bad. In both cases, relatively, of course. So I don't know why you think anyone criticizing Pettersson has to offer further arguments or detailed critiques. The onus should be on anyone taking a position that is contrary to the basic facts which I don't think are really in dispute.

My argument is that most people's evaluation of a player is 1:1 correlated with point production, and that type of evaluation should not be taken seriously.

But this isn't the case here. Posters critiquing him, as far as I can tell, are saying that he looks bad based on their viewings of him, and are then also citing his counting stats which are consistent with their conclusions based on their viewings. To put it another way, based on my viewing of his play since the deadline, his production is what I would expect. I don't think he has looked offensively dynamic over that period of time and am not surprised that his production is down.

Your argument is flawed because you seem to think that people are concluding he has been bad based on production, and not their viewings.

 

[bossram]

Your argument is flawed because you seem to think that people are concluding he has been bad based on production, and not their viewings.

Yes. Because this is how the vast majority of people come to their conclusions on players, and work backwards to confirmation bias their way into finding evidence to support that.

Once again, you willfully misinterpret me. I am not saying Petey's play hasn't declined. I'm saying if his play is so poor, why can't people describe his poor play? Why is the only evidence produced almost always just boxscore stats? Because they're working from the pre-conceived conclusion of "no points=bad" and filling in backwards from there.

 

[Hodgy]

Yes. Because this is how the vast majority of people come to their conclusions on players, and work backwards to confirmation bias their way into finding evidence to support that.

This seems to be just pure speculation on your part. Personally, I had no idea that his counting stats were as low as they were since the deadline until someone posted them here. I watch the games though and wasn't surprised because he hasn't looked good over that period. I would think most people on here are more focused on watching the games then pouring over split stats.

Once again, you willfully misinterpret me. I am not saying Petey's play hasn't declined. I'm saying if his play is so poor, why can't people describe his poor play? Why is the only evidence produced almost always just boxscore stats? Because they're working from the pre-conceived conclusion of "no points=bad" and filling in backwards from there.

I am not willfully misinterpreting you, and in fact, I already addressed this point. Again, when a player looks bad and that player's counting stats are bad, I don't see why a person who points that out has the onus of making further detailed critiques to support their assertion that the player in question has been bad. Frankly, all of this discussion seems like a waste of time given that I don't think you are event rejecting the idea that Pettersson has been bad, relatively speaking, since the deadline.

 

[timw33]

Sucks we blew so much capital on Lindholm.

Would love for the Nucks to go hard after Tkachuk in the offseason.

Likely be outbid by other teams anyway but one can dream.

Let's be honest with ourselves and at least and acknowledge that a 22-32nd overall pick, Brustewicz, and a 3rd/4th is not going to be the tipping point of a package for Tkachuk.

 

[supercanuck]

People always fall into this trap of thinking that now is the new forever and overreact.

We have all seen the kind of player Pettersson can be. He could be dealing with some kind of injury that's preventing him from playing at his peak ability, but still healthy enough to play and be way better than whoever might take his spot.

Saying we need to unload or buy out a player when they hit a rough patch is just silly.

Just over a year ago, Delia-gate caused many to question JT's $56M contract and what type of teammate he is. Now he is the indispensable superstar leader who can will the team to victory who wears his heart on his sleeve.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Let's be honest with ourselves and at least and acknowledge that a 22-32nd overall pick, Brustewicz, and a 3rd/4th is not going to be the tipping point of a package for Tkachuk.

Well clearly not on its own.

But used as part of a larger package it might.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Let's be honest with ourselves and at least and acknowledge that a 22-32nd overall pick, Brustewicz, and a 3rd/4th is not going to be the tipping point of a package for Tkachuk.

Yea if we’re talking Tkachuk we’re talking Willander and Lekkerimaki.

 

[valkynax]

Just over a year ago, Delia-gate caused many to question JT's $56M contract and what type of teammate he is. Now he is the indispensable superstar leader who can will the team to victory who wears his heart on his sleeve.

My guess is, Tocchet.

His passion has never ceased since his arrival here in Van. In the past he led it ran wild like an uncontrolled blaze, scorching friends and foe alike. This season, he's refined and focused that same fire into a pinpoint laser.

Hope he can crank it up even further now that we're diving into the realm of the ruinous powers.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Yea if we’re talking Tkachuk we’re talking Willander and Lekkerimaki.

My trucks gassed up I'll pick em both up in Abbotsford and drive em to the airport or all the way to Ottawa.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

Just over a year ago, Delia-gate caused many to question JT's $56M contract and what type of teammate he is. Now he is the indispensable superstar leader who can will the team to victory who wears his heart on his sleeve.

Ironically I was one of those people that wanted to move on from Miller. Not because of his production but his attitude seemed cancerous. I never expected him to change the way he has under Tocchet and become the steady leader he is now. Clearly I need to take an "L" on that one.

 

[arttk]

Well clearly not on its own.

But used as part of a larger package it might.

SLC can create outbid any team if they want to.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Man it would be really nice if we could extend Joshua before the playoffs.

 

[arttk]

Ironically I was one of those people that wanted to move on from Miller. Not because of his production but his attitude seemed cancerous. I never expected him to change the way he has under Tocchet and become the steady leader he is now. Clearly I need to take an "L" on that one.

that's why you, or anyone really, try to draw conclusion about player's attitude. There is absolutely zero way for any of us to know if a player is cancerous, bought in or not just from the little info we have.

That is why it's so god damn stupid for people to look at Petey and say .. oh he's just not invested, body language is poor, bla bla bla. That's the shit that was said about Miller like for the last 2 season, hell that was shit people said about the twins when they were around.

My guess is, Tocchet.

His passion has never ceased since his arrival here in Van. In the past he led it ran wild like an uncontrolled blaze, scorching friends and foe alike. This season, he's refined and focused that same fire into a pinpoint laser.

Hope he can crank it up even further now that we're diving into the realm of the ruinous powers.

the obvious answer is because we are winning.

when you are passionate while losing, people see that as being petulant, frustrated and whiny.
when you are passionate while winning, people see that is bought in, enthusiastic and driving the team.

 

[Peen]

Disappointed they didn’t sort out a Joshua extension before the playoffs started. Rest I didn’t care about waiting until whenever for.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[Chairman Maouth]

This is fantastic. Take the time machine back to 1982.

1982 Canucks Play-Offs Sports Page Recap​

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

I know he takes heat at times for his line combinations, but I have confidence in this guy. Also, I never get the feeling he's trying to bullshit us.

Coach Rick is awesome to listen to. I look forward to the Canucks Talk podcasts daily during the week for Coach Rick's media availabilities. Same goes for Good Ol' JR when he speaks, and honestly, in her role I think Canucks Kate has been a big hit for the club.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This argument about Pettersson is pretty hilarious.

Literally nobody is saying he's playing his best.

Chicken littles are saying he's terrible and this can't happen because he's expensive now and blah blah blah.

Some of us are saying, 'he's not playing his best but there are ups and downs for all players, we don't know the details of his health etc, and him slumping is temporary, be excited that we have a top 7 or 8 center in the league locked up for a contract that will look more and more like a steal as the cap goes up'.

"He's terrible, he's a cancer, his body language blah blah'.

Which isn't taken seriously.

Which is then responded to by saying, 'you're being emotional. Why can't I criticize him?"

Now that we've caught up.

The problem is a matter of scope. If you said, "Petey's slumping, not loving his confidence or poise right now'.

Nobody, literally nobody, would disagree.

But people saying we have to trade him, or assassinating his character aren't to be taken seriously. Have you never watched sports before? Is every player in a slump suddenly terrible?

Are you the same people who wanted the GM hung for trading for Hronek? Thought Lekkerimaki was worth a 3rd round pick, wanted to pay to dump Boeser, wanted to dump Hughes, wanted to dump Petey, wanted to dump Miller?

Do you ever get tired of being dunked on by time and reality?

This too shall pass and you'll be convinced that he's the greatest thing ever once again. Give it time. Try being a bit more circumspect, please.

 

[Hansen]

Weird choice for Chris Higgins to step out of the player development / management track and into content creation

 

[arttk]

Weird choice for Chris Higgins to step out of the player development / management track and into content creation

He has been in hockey for 30+ years. Everybody goes through some kind of mid life crisis.

 

[RobertKron]

This argument about Pettersson is pretty hilarious.

Literally nobody is saying he's playing his best.

Chicken littles are saying he's terrible and this can't happen because he's expensive now and blah blah blah.

Some of us are saying, 'he's not playing his best but there are ups and downs for all players, we don't know the details of his health etc, and him slumping is temporary, be excited that we have a top 7 or 8 center in the league locked up for a contract that will look more and more like a steal as the cap goes up'.

"He's terrible, he's a cancer, his body language blah blah'.

Which isn't taken seriously.

Which is then responded to by saying, 'you're being emotional. Why can't I criticize him?"

Now that we've caught up.

The problem is a matter of scope. If you said, "Petey's slumping, not loving his confidence or poise right now'.

Nobody, literally nobody, would disagree.

But people saying we have to trade him, or assassinating his character aren't to be taken seriously. Have you never watched sports before? Is every player in a slump suddenly terrible?

Are you the same people who wanted the GM hung for trading for Hronek? Thought Lekkerimaki was worth a 3rd round pick, wanted to pay to dump Boeser, wanted to dump Hughes, wanted to dump Petey, wanted to dump Miller?

Do you ever get tired of being dunked on by time and reality?

This too shall pass and you'll be convinced that he's the greatest thing ever once again. Give it time. Try being a bit more circumspect, please.

Man, earlier on when you told that one poster that they didn't have a serious opinion (paraphrasing, I think), I really thought you'd turned a corner.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Man, earlier on when you told that one poster that they didn't have a serious opinion (paraphrasing, I think), I really thought you'd turned a corner.

Well keep me posted on your head-canon for an anonymous poster on a message board.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

“Jim Benning has done a heck of a job” after the OEL trade was made. You can’t arrogantly talk down to others on the validity of their opinions when you held a dumbass opinion for 8 years despite the mounting data proving Benning was terrible at his job.