Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Stars - 5-4 (OT) (Beauvillier x2, Dries, Podkolzin, Kuzmenko)

[JohnHodgson]

This is the standard the elite teams operate at, that's why the Oilers with McDrai are where they are and why teams like Avs and the Bolts win cups.

They don't want inefficient contracts, especially for role players.

Inefficient contracts =/= cap dumps

I agree you can be a good player yet be a cap dump however being overpaid 1M doesn't make you a cap dump. The majority of the league would be cap dumps then.

I also disagree that Karlsson is a cap dump. Karlsson is a high value player that is un-moveable in the current climate given cap space and assets it would take to acquire him. You can be a high value player but be un-moveable just like you can be a good player and be a cap dump. If Karlsson today is a negative value asset, Connor McDavid has to be too. Theres 0 teams in the NHL today that could 1 could afford McDavid if Edmonton looked for the same parameters as San Jose for Karlsson.

Cheers!

Somebody that actually understands the salary cap.

Beau is not even 1M overpaid. A middle six goal scoring winger with potential is easily worth 3.5M.

 

[Nucker101]

Inefficient contracts =/= cap dumps

Semantics.

Overpaid role players = avoid if possible

 

[JohnHodgson]

This is the standard the elite teams operate at, that's why the Oilers with McDrai are where they are and why teams like Avs and the Bolts win cups.

They don't want inefficient contracts, especially for role players.

Funny because Erik Johnson won a cup with the Avs last year making 6M.

Semantics.

Overpaid role players = avoid if possible

Not sure how this is relevant to the Beau = cap dump discussion.

 

[Nucker101]

Funny because Erik Johnson won a cup with the Avs last year making 6M.

One guy. No team will be perfect, the idea is to avoid these contracts if you can.

 

[me2]

Funny because Erik Johnson won a cup with the Avs last year making 6M.

Let's offer Erik Johnson $6m/y. That will fix the D and get us a cup.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I don't get this whole "streaky" business thing from Beau.

It's been 11 games... that's 13% of an 82 game season. He's been consistently good to very good in those games. How many number of games until we start giving this guy some respect?

he's getting respect. i m enjoying the play.

if it holds to the end of the season i'll be impressed but i will still probably hold off going all in until i see it again next season.

 

[JohnHodgson]

One guy. No team will be perfect, the idea is to avoid these contracts if you can.

What does that have to do with Beau?

No shit teams want to avoid bad contracts.

Not exactly sure what your point is...

 

[Nucker101]

Funny because Erik Johnson won a cup with the Avs last year making 6M.


Not sure how this is relevant to the Beau = cap dump discussion.

Of course it is. I don’t care about terminology, cap dump, bad contract, overpaid. Call it whatever you want.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Let's offer Erik Johnson $6m/y. That will fix the D and get us a cup.

I hope the other 37k posts you have offer more insights than this

 

[Nucker101]

What does that have to do with Beau?

No shit teams want to avoid bad contracts.

Not exactly sure what your point is...

Well is Beau an efficient contract?

 

[JohnHodgson]

Of course it is. I don’t care about terminology, cap dump, bad contract, overpaid. Call it whatever you want.

Me neither.

Canucks got a really got player in Beau regardless what you want to call him. Cap dump, potato, lettuce - I don't care.

This Horvat trade has a chance to be a home run. If Beau can be a top six winger for us, Raty can be a productive NHL player, and the 1st round pick becomes something meaningful... Horvat trade will be an absolute grand salami.

 

[Nucker101]

Me neither.

Canucks got a really got player in Beau regardless what you want to call him. Cap dump, potato, lettuce - I don't care.

This Horvat trade has a chance to be a home run. If Beau can be a top six winger for us, Raty can be a productive NHL player, and the 1st round pick becomes something meaningful... Horvat trade will be an absolute grand salami.

Fair. If Beau is a legit 2nd line winger caliber player then yeah his cap hit is totally fine by me.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Well is Beau an efficient contract?

If he produces like he did in 2019-2021 where he was a 20+ goal 50 point player? It's absolutely an efficient contract.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Well is Beau an efficient contract?

if he keeps this up, hes more than efficient, hes one of the best contracts in the league. Its too early to say if he's a cap dump currently or not. Gun to my head, yes he is an efficient contract. He has shown so far he's well worth the 4.1M.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Semantics.

Overpaid role players = avoid if possible

but you do need to pay for some of your role players.

 

[Nucker101]

but you do need to pay for some of your role players.

Yeah they can’t all be sub-2M dollar players, that’s just not realistic. But operating how teams like Carolina, Tampa Bay should be the goal.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Fair. If Beau is a legit 2nd line winger caliber player then yeah his cap hit is totally fine by me.

I think he already is.

Look at his production from 2019-2021.

He's very clearly someone that needed a change of scenery and needed to get out of NY. The Islanders don't play an offensive system.

If he plays with Petey, he should easily be a 50-60 point player. Even without Petey I think he's good for 40-50 points.

 

[MS]

Yeah I don't think you quite have the widely recognized definition of a cap dump.

By your definition, half the league are cap dumps LOL.

Anyone who isn't living up to their contract = cap dump

Let's just say you and I (and many others) have different definitions of cap dumps. A player underperforming their contract by 500k is not a cap dump in my humble opinion, but you do you.

I genuinely don't think the Canucks thought Beau was a "bad cap dump" that they HAD to take back. I think they actively targeted Beau as someone they were interested in because of his skill set. If Beau was just a cap dump, why wouldn't NYI just give us Bailey instead? He's older, worse and makes more.

In your opinion, in your interpretation, Beau was a cap dump and a nothing burger that had no value across the league. Sure - you have every right to view it from that perspective.

I think the Canucks knew exactly what they were doing by getting Beau. Their pro scouting has been really good for the most part. This acquisition reinforces that.

If you have no value because of your contract, you're a cap dump.

Yes, some cap dumps are worse than others. Loui Eriksson at the end was a $0 player with a $6 million cap hit. Based on his previous couple years, Beauvillier was probably a $2.5 million player with a $4.1 million cap hit.

This sort of player on $3 million or $4 million deal are the ones getting squeezed in today's NHL. Beauvillier at $4.1 million in his second straight 30-something point season did not carry value. And that lines up with the reports we heard that NYI had been trying to move him for awhile without takers, and that lines up with the similar assets we see valuated around the league.

And again, yes : of course the team preferred Beauvillier over Bailey. I'm sure NYI probably tried to shunt Bailey off on us and we declined. You seem stuck on the term 'cap dump' meaning it's a bad player the team was stupid to acquire like it's an attack on management and it doesn't mean that at all. If the team smartly took back a cap dump they could rebuild value on, that's GOOD management. But it still doesn't mean Beauvillier carried value at the time of the trade.

And this is exactly what I said at the time of the trade, for the record :

Adding to the above, though, I would say that Beauvillier is a 'good' cap dump target.

- he's pretty young.
- he's a useful player as is, albeit overpaid, unlike some cap dumps who are pure dogshit.
- he does have a track record for higher levels of performance in the past.
- the length/overpayment amount isn't absolutely terrible.
- he has a good reputation off-ice.

So you can see some avenues for him to be useful, or potentially rebuild some value if things go well (Tanner Pearson did this prior to us handing him that extension) and overall not be a huge problem.

 

[credulous]

Gotta love the media crap about playing with more structure. Demko made huge saves amongst multiple d zone breakdowns

Structure ?

i mean they had 4 ahl defenders in the lineup. five if you count burroughs

i'm the biggest tocchet hater around but even i'm gonna cut the team a little slack tonite

 

[credulous]

I think he already is.

Look at his production from 2019-2021.

He's very clearly someone that needed a change of scenery and needed to get out of NY. The Islanders don't play an offensive system.

If he plays with Petey, he should easily be a 50-60 point player. Even without Petey I think he's good for 40-50 points.

like half the league could get 40-50 points if they were stapled to pettersson. doesn't mean they are all top line wingers

 

[JohnHodgson]

If you have no value because of your contract, you're a cap dump.

Yes, some cap dumps are worse than others. Loui Eriksson at the end was a $0 player with a $6 million cap hit. Based on his previous couple years, Beauvillier was probably a $2.5 million player with a $4.1 million cap hit.

This sort of player on $3 million or $4 million deal are the ones getting squeezed in today's NHL. Beauvillier at $4.1 million in his second straight 30-something point season did not carry value. And that lines up with the reports we heard that NYI had been trying to move him for awhile without takers, and that lines up with the similar assets we see valuated around the league.

And again, yes : of course the team preferred Beauvillier over Bailey. I'm sure NYI probably tried to shunt Bailey off on us and we declined. You seem stuck on the term 'cap dump' meaning it's a bad player the team was stupid to acquire like it's an attack on management and it doesn't mean that at all. If the team smartly took back a cap dump they could rebuild value on, that's GOOD management. But it still doesn't mean Beauvillier carried value at the time of the trade.

That's not how the term "cap dump" is widely used throughout the league.

However, you are welcome to your own interpretation/opinion though.

Beau a 2.5M player? Middle six goal scoring wingers make that little? Since when? Your valuation of cap is way off.

Taylor Hall only has 5 more points than Beau and makes 6M... CAP DUMP. Can't believe Boston has such a big cap dump on their roster... they should be calling teams to get rid of him.

Mangipiane has 1 more point than Beau and makes 5.5M... CAP DUMP.

Trevor Moore only has 20 points in 42 games... why would LA just sign him to a 5 year $4.2M cap dump deal??

Nieddereiter with 28 points - 3 less than Beau... why would Winnipeg just give up a 2nd round pick to acquire a cap dump???

TJ Oshie 26 points 44 games.. 5.25M... CAP DUMP.

Victor Olofsson? Making 4.75M? Big Cap Dump here.

Tomas Tatar the massive cap dump at 4.5M.

Etc. Etc.

Obvious hyperbole and sarcasm. Your definition of cap dump is not really correct given how it's used league-wide. You definitely have the right to use it the way you want though.

like half the league could get 40-50 points if they were stapled to pettersson. doesn't mean they are all top line wingers

Look at Beau's production from 2019-2021.

Was he playing with Pettersson then?

It really doesn't hurt to look up his hockey db page... takes two seconds to save yourself some trouble.

 

[MS]

That's not how the term "cap dump" is widely used throughout the league.

However, you are welcome to your own interpretation/opinion though.

Beau a 2.5M player? Middle six goal scoring wingers make that little? Since when? Your valuation of cap is way off.

Taylor Hall only has 5 more points than Beau and makes 6M... CAP DUMP. Can't believe Boston has such a big cap dump on their roster... they should be calling teams to get rid of him.

Mangipiane has 1 more point than Beau and makes 5.5M... CAP DUMP.

Trevor Moore only has 20 points in 42 games... why would LA just sign him to a 5 year $4.2M cap dump deal??

Nieddereiter with 28 points - 3 less than Beau... why would Winnipeg just give up a 2nd round pick to acquire a cap dump???

TJ Oshie 26 points 44 games.. 5.25M... CAP DUMP.

Victor Olofsson? Making 4.75M? Big Cap Dump here.

Tomas Tatar the massive cap dump at 4.5M.

Etc. Etc.

Obvious hyperbole and sarcasm. Your definition of cap dump is not really correct given how it's used league-wide. You definitely have the right to use it the way you want though.

Again, by taking Beauvillier’s numbers after he scores 11 points in 11 games post-trade your conflating the change to his value that’s happened now with what his value was at the time.

And yes, guys like Hall and Mangiapane are probably worthless in the trade market right now. Tatar was negative value a few months ago but with a better season on an expiring deal maybe that’s changed. TJ Oshie is *massively* negative value - Washington would probably have to add a first round pick to get anyone to take him.

 

[credulous]

Look at Beau's production from 2019-2021.

Was he playing with Pettersson then?

It really doesn't hurt to look up his hockey db page... takes two seconds to save yourself some trouble.

he played like a 50 point forward and got like 20% of those points on the power play. he was basically stapled to brock nelson his entire time with the islanders. nelson is no pettersson but he's a very good center. it's not like he was getting third or fourth line minutes

beauvillier is on a nice run here. i liked that the canucks got him in the horvat deal because i knew he was a speedy, talented forward and his contract doesn't really matter for the canucks right now because they're going to be trash as long as he is here. he's not some secret superstar allvin discovered

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How many offensively challenged forwards have now been able to score riding shotgun to EP?

Boeser this year, Pedersson, Mikheyev, Beuvillier... Am I forgetting anyone?

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

but you do need to pay for some of your role players.

Let’s sign Roussell and Beagle and Erikksson for 12 mlly/sarcasm