GDT: Canes Prospect Development Camp 2018

[Mike1167]

Check out @MSmithCanes’s Tweet:

 

[Hulkacaniac]

"Kooch"...I like it. A name the crowd can chant after he makes a big save...KOOOOOOOCH.

It's actually pronounced Koo-HAR-skee, but Kooch-AR-skee works better!!!

In touch with your Polish heritage I see. I like it!

 

[Mike1167]

In touch with your Polish heritage I see. I like it!

Not me, actually. His dad's heritage is Polish. But thanks!

 

[tarheelhockey]

McKenzie had him as a 2nd rounder in his final ranking prior to the 2017 draft.

McKenzie had him at the very end of the 2nd round after not having him in the top-92 at mid season.

Button didn’t have him in his top 105.

Marek didn’t have him in his top-100.

AFAIK, all the independent editions like Future Considerations and THA had him as a low-round (100+) pick.

Circumstantially, it looks like Francis picked up on whatever it was that had McKenzie go completely against the grain. Nothing about him other than that one single critic’s ranking suggests he should have been picked in the top 3 rounds, let alone the high 2nd.

This past season he saw time as the number 1 center in Liiga.

Are you sure he saw REAL time as a #1 center? Because he was 10th on his team in scoring, behind 7 forwards and 2 defensemen.

He had 6 goals in 55 games which resembles my beer league stats (I suck).

Combined with looking “meh” (not bad, but not top-5 in this group) against his peers during the most recent camp, he sure looks like an unnecessary reach pick that completely busted. Like a lower-stakes Paradis.

 

[A Star is Burns]

That single critic gets his list from 10 scouts as I'm sure you know. That means he was clearly on some radars as a second rounder. It may not work out, but it doesn't seem super crazy.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

He’s busted a year after his draft?

Ok.

 

[The Stranger]

Yes, McKenzie's ranking is an average of all the scouts he's in contact with.

As far as Luostarinen's scoring and spot in the lineup, he moved up the lineup towards the end of the season and his scoring really picked...14 points in his last 20 games.

 

[Canes]

I think Luostarinen can be eventually be a Victor Rask type player. Maybe even better. It's just going to take some time for that to happen if it does at all.

I also think this Drury kid has a chance to be a McGinn type but as a center. Not sure he'll have the talent to ever be a top 6 guy but he's got a chance at being one of those really good role players that every good team seems to have at 2-3 of.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That single critic gets his list from 10 scouts as I'm sure you know. That means he was clearly on some radars as a second rounder. It may not work out, but it doesn't seem super crazy.

That’s what I meant by, whatever McKenzie was picking up on. It sure seems like there was some kind of very limited info, like a single coach having a man crush for him or something. I don’t know what it was, but McKenzie heard something that made him go way off the board to list him as a late 2nd rounder.

The thing is, Franicis & Co. leapfrogged even that outlier ranking to take him at 42. I assume it was based on the same intel, but of course maybe it was just our team trying to be the smartest guys in the room. Even if we had just been adamant that we absolutely needed a Finnish center with that pick, McKenzie’s own ranking — aggregated by that same group of scouts and backed by other experts — had Joni Ikonen ahead of him, and Ikonen was still available.

So the same logic that justifies us taking Eetu, would have had us passing on Eetu to take Joni. Not that Ikonen’s anything to write home about either, but it highlights how baffling a pick that one was. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if we were the only team that had him ranked 42+, and a year after the pick it looks like we simply overrated the guy.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s busted a year after his draft?

Ok.

Not completely busted, of course. But it was a weird pick that still looks weird a year out, which is usually a sign that someone done goofed.

 

[vorbis]

it just seemed to me that perhaps after Aho (maybe even including Aho), Francis had set aside his 2nd rounders as "Joni Pitkanen's guy". somebody maybe under the radar from Liiga that had caught Pitkanen's eye, and that spot was just reserved for his favorite one available. of Aho/Kuokkanen/Luostarinen, I think only Kuokkanen was fairly established as being in that early 2nd round range. Aho was all over the place and not super well-known, similar to Luostarinen.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

If you expect a second rounder to become an NHL player, you will be disappointed more often than not

 

[Lempo]

"They're not booing, they're saying Koooooooooooch!"

Them NSH fans are gonna sound like a bunch on Rocky Balboas.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

If you expect a second rounder to become an NHL player, you will be disappointed more often than not

well basically all our 2nd rounders in the last decade have become NHL players, maybe our expectations have become too high

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

That’s what I meant by, whatever McKenzie was picking up on. It sure seems like there was some kind of very limited info, like a single coach having a man crush for him or something. I don’t know what it was, but McKenzie heard something that made him go way off the board to list him as a late 2nd rounder.

I was under the impression McKenzie didn't list his own opinions in his prospect rankings, but took the aggregate (through some such method) of the dozen NHL scouts he spoke with. So he's giving the pulse of where NHL scouting is, vs. guys like Button who do release their own opinions (and get into twitter fights over it).

So if that's the case (and I want clarification on this), it's a sense of NHL scouts picking up on something the media isn't.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

^

Yeah, McKenzie just complies information. He talked about that on a recent Bobcast starting at ~9:45.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

well basically all our 2nd rounders in the last decade have become NHL players, maybe our expectations have been come too high

Maybe they have. But... I would not give up on Eetu just yet. He is a young boi.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If you expect a second rounder to become an NHL player, you will be disappointed more often than not

Most won’t be significant NHL players, but they should at least look like they have a shot. Dalpe, Bowman were classic AAAA players who seemed like they could take one more step and be contributors. That step just didn’t happen. Them’s the breaks.

I’m not seeing it with Eetu, personally. He looks to me like an ECHL player who would need to take 2-3 steps before the NHL would come into the picture. For a forward who will start next season at age 20, that’s going to have to be a hell of a sharp development curve if it’s to work out.

 

[NotOpie]

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if we were the only team that had him ranked 42+, and a year after the pick it looks like we simply overrated the guy.

While I haven't given up on him yet, there are a couple of guys picked after him, that I personally would have taken w/that pick. Guys like Texier, Formenton, Comtois, and Gadjovich....but what do I know.

 

[Lempo]

Most won’t be significant NHL players, but they should at least look like they have a shot. Dalpe, Bowman were classic AAAA players who seemed like they could take one more step and be contributors. That step just didn’t happen. Them’s the breaks.

I’m not seeing it with Eetu, personally. He looks to me like an ECHL player who would need to take 2-3 steps before the NHL would come into the picture. For a forward who will start next season at age 20, that’s going to have to be a hell of a sharp development curve if it’s to work out.

I can't not be helped of thinking about 2010 4th round pick Joonas Donskoi who sure took his time in Finland until a caring coach jolted him to set his head right on what it takes to be a professional and make it to the NHL.

He then ended up scoring in SCF for a team that wasn't his drafting team FLA and that signed him as UFA in 2015.

No move on Luostarinen. Pawn stays e2.

 

[The Stranger]

I’m not seeing it with Eetu, personally. He looks to me like an ECHL player who would need to take 2-3 steps before the NHL would come into the picture. For a forward who will start next season at age 20, that’s going to have to be a hell of a sharp development curve if it’s to work out.

Is there something specific about his game that you don't like? Why do you think he looks like an ECHL player?

At the risk of beating this to death, as a 19 year old he played in the top level men's league in Finland and finished the year as the 1C...put up 14 points in the last 20 games in that role.

I would think people would actually be encouraged by this.

 

[Bub]

Is there something specific about his game that you don't like? Why do you think he looks like an ECHL player?

At the risk of beating this to death, as a 19 year old he played in the top level men's league in Finland and finished the year as the 1C...put up 14 points in the last 20 games in that role.

I would think people would actually be encouraged by this.

As a Canes fan, I had to look up this word.

 

[Lempo]

 

[tarheelhockey]

Is there something specific about his game that you don't like? Why do you think he looks like an ECHL player?

At the risk of beating this to death, as a 19 year old he played in the top level men's league in Finland and finished the year as the 1C...put up 14 points in the last 20 games in that role.

I would think people would actually be encouraged by this.

I just don’t see him as a high-enough caliber player. Like for example, last week he looked nowhere near the level of the players who are consensus NHL-bound. The only part of his game that seems high-level is his stick skill, which is probably the least indicator of a prospect’s future in the league. The skating isn’t there, the playmaking isn’t there, and he doesn’t seem physically imposing. His Liiga numbers are nowhere near the level you’d look at and think “NHL material”. To me he looks like someone who needs to get a lot better to make the cut, and at age 20 the clock is ticking for a forward. It’s not like a defenseman or a goalie where it’s normal to take some time. Not a whole lot of forwards show up out of nowhere after age 22 or 23, and those that do are usually Derek Ryan type marginal players.

Doesn’t mean he’s iron-clad destined to become that. Of course I hope he grows and shows us a new level of play. That last-20 statistic at least gives us something to latch our hopes onto. I’m just saying it would seriously surprise the hell out of me if that guy became an NHL contributor, which makes the reach to draft him at 42 frustrating.

 

[FaulkYouAho]

Formenton

this is the guy i liked the most and wanted the most in the second round. He dominated the WHL pre draft combine.