Speculation: Can we talk about the Tomas Plekanec trade...

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,740
16,531
We spent a 2nd round pick on 20 games of a guy who got abused in the playoffs and then barely had 3C production in the Czech league 6 months later.

If we spent 2x 2nds on a young 4C with term and upside, people would bitch and moan about wasting assets. We spent 2x 2nds on geriatric 4Cs and still went into the very next season with no long-term solution at 4C. A league minimum Spezza that we picked up for free gave us more value than those two ever did, kind of sad.
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
So its...

Pleks
for
Kerby Rychel - Done nothing in the NHL, spent a year in the KHL
Rinat Valiev - AHL D man who is average at best
and the 2nd rounder is now...
Jacob Olofsson - He looks... ok? in the SHL, but nothing special.

Other guys drafted around that spot (if your a person who says bUt DuBaS would have taken x)
next 5 are Axel Andersson, Filip Hallander, Gabriel Fortier, David Gustafsson and Ivan Morozov.
No real standouts there.

IMO in the end its two 'meh' at best AHLers and a 2nd rounder in a spot where no one's a big value yet.
 
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Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,740
16,531
So its...

Pleks
for
Kerby Rychel - Done nothing in the NHL, spent a year in the KHL
Rinat Valiev - AHL D man who is average at best
and the 2nd rounder is now...
Jacob Olofsson - He looks... ok? in the SHL, but nothing special.

Other guys drafted around that spot (if your a person who says bUt DuBaS would have taken x)
next 5 are Axel Andersson, Filip Hallander, Gabriel Fortier, David Gustafsson and Ivan Morozov.
No real standouts there.

IMO in the end its two 'meh' at best AHLers and a 2nd rounder in a spot where no one's a big value yet.

Or, you know, you can trade the 2nd for someone who isn't below replacement level and a few months away from being a Czech league grinder.

If you trade 100$ of unscratched lottery tickets to someone for a half eaten gas station hot dog, you didn't make a good trade just because none of the tickets won anything.
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,283
21,719
Or, you know, you can trade the 2nd for someone who isn't below replacement level and a few months away from being a Czech league grinder.

If you trade 100$ of unscratched lottery tickets to someone for a half eaten gas station hot dog, you didn't make a good trade just because none of the tickets won anything.
The half eaten hot dog.....is it still available?

Damn late supper.....
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
Bringing in Trotz was his biggest impact move who is the biggest reason behind the Isles turnaround.

IIRC up until this past trade deadline the last trade Lou made was for Matt Martin

Anyway back on topic, I wasn't a fan of moving a 2nd rounder for a rental at the time and I dislike it even more now. That's Nonis-esque

True forgot about that. Trotz and poaching Greco from the Marlies to be goalie coach was good for him too.
 

robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,423
15,543
And if we won the Stanley Cup last year, Babcock would still be coach. Of course the trade would look better if we start pretending alternate realities.
Wow, you really stretched that out to the extreme. I was trying to allude to the fact the Pleks was not bad in round 1 and maybe if we win it more people remember that stretch of good play.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
How quick they forget !!!

One of Lou Lam's best moves of all time:

Shedding Phaneuf’s contract
Lamoriello somehow on Feb. 9, 2016, convinced the Senators to accept the final five-plus seasons of Dion Phaneuf’s albatross-like seven-year, $49-milllion deal, giving the Maple Leafs much needed salary cap flexibility. Phaneuf, Matt Frattin, Casey Bailey, Ryan Rupert and Cody Donaghey went to Ottawa for Jared Cowen, Colin Greening, Milan Michalek, Tobias Lindberg and a second-round pick.

*** If not for Lou Lam, Phaneuf would still be on the books for $7 mil AAV through the 2020-21 season which is post JT and 3 Amigo's new contracts today. ***

One of many trade deadline deals that ensured the Leafs finish 30th overall while recapturing 5 years @ $7 mil cap hit ... A move that successfully resulted in the drafting Auston Matthews #1OA, the Leafs current franchise player.

Leafs’ netminder
Lamoriello certainly understands the importance of strong goaltending. He set up the Maple Leafs for success by acquiring netminder Frederik Andersen from the Ducks for a first-round pick in 2016 acquired from the Kessel trade, and a second-rounder in 2017 secured via Phaneuf Salary dump contract.

As a result of these transactions the Leafs went from last overall with 69 points to 95 points the very next year (+26 point point improvement) to a playoff spot taking on the Washington Capitals. Followed that up with a 105 All-time franchise best year the following season. Worst to franchise first in 2 years.

As mentioned above (earlier post) traded • Roman Polak • Nick Spaling to Sharks for • Raffi Torres • 2017 second round pick • 2018 second round pick on 2016-02-22. With these manufactured 2nd rounders he attempted to prop up Leafs playoff chances by the additions of veteran centres Boyle in 2017 & Plekanec in 2018.

Tomas Pleckanec was brought in at the TD to prop up a 105 point Leafs playoff team attempting to provide depth, leadership and PK ability, a very common move done by many teams in Cup contention annually.. He acquired the 2nd round pick by dealing Polak to SJ as a pending UFA the previous trade deadline, and then turned around and resigned Polak the following year as a UFA having him back on the Leafs for this playoff run with new teammate Plekanec in tow..

Basically acquiring Plekanec with found money!!. This is the transaction that Leaf Nation fans want to bemoan about years later of a playoff rental player?. Talk about some that can't see the forest for the trees, too involved in the minor details of an insignificant transaction now to look at the situation as a whole.

Also Traded • Daniel Winnik • 2016 fifth round pick to Capitals for • Brooks Laich • Connor Carrick • 2016 second round pick (#57-Carl Grundstrom) on 2016-02-28 ensuring the Leafs still made a 2nd round pick of their own. Grundstrom one of the players later dealt by Dubas to acquire Jake Muzzin.

This was a pure masterpiece body of GM work that didn't even include the cap friendly deals of Rielly and Kadri he signed Leafs to, in addition to passing on #1C Matthews and #1G Andersen as well as some prospects like Liljegren, Korshkov, Brooks and goalie prospects like Woll/Scott in the system for the next GM as well as a franchise best 105 point starting roster for his predecessor.

If you want to classify the Plekanec and Boyle deals as competitive playoff moves, I'm fine with that. That's something all GM's do when they are competitive, including Dubas. I don't think you should be paying 2nd round picks for 4th liners, just like I did not like having to pay for Clifford, but maybe that is just me. At the same time though, Dubas shouldn't be criticized for letting Gardiner, Barrie, JvR, Bozak, Komarov, etc. go for nothing since they were rentals when we were competing too.

--- Unrelated to original thread below here ---

Everyone knew the Leafs were getting value out of Phaneuf and their UFA's. He had an overpaid top 4 defenseman who was still very useful at the time, and helped Ottawa get far into the playoffs, and used his financial muscle by taking on a bunch of overpaid deals and taking less (arguably a lot less) trade value in lieu of retention. He traded his UFA's for market value, which is the minimum of what Dubas has been able to manage to receive in the vast majority of his trades. BTW, Dubas was the one who got a lot of that "found money" for Lou. He was the one who went bargain bin hunting, bringing back Winnik, acquiring Spaling in the Kessel trade, signing Matthias, PA Parenteau, etc. for Lou to be able to trade before Lou was even made GM.

He signed Rielly and Kadri to market-value deals. He bet on both of them and their potential and shockingly, as is the case with the vast majority of RFA's, they grew into it. In fact, it took Rielly a year to grow into it. However Dubas does the same thing with higher end guys and suddenly he is a pariah for messing up the cap, despite having literally all of the RFA's except Marner grow into, or exceed, their contracts within one year? However does not shock me at all. Happens all the time with high end RFA's (i.e. Drasaitl, Eichel, etc.).

His best move was, as I said, getting a goalie. He overpaid, but good for him. That's what he's been able to do well in New York too. He was hardly the worst GM we've ever had. He was certainly better than Nonis and Burke, and I would rather have him back than using Hunter. However the largest driver of his success was lucking out on Matthews and having him, Marner and Nylander on an ELC for much of his successful tenure. He was fine, but fine is not winning us Cups. Dubas is much better than fine and gives us a much better chance at winning a Cup than him.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,168
32,824
St. Paul, MN
If you want to classify the Plekanec and Boyle deals as competitive playoff moves, I'm fine with that. That's something all GM's do when they are competitive, including Dubas. I don't think you should be paying 2nd round picks for 4th liners, just like I did not like having to pay for Clifford, but maybe that is just me. At the same time though, Dubas shouldn't be criticized for letting Gardiner, Barrie, JvR, Bozak, Komarov, etc. go for nothing since they were rentals when we were competing too.

--- Unrelated to original thread below here ---

Everyone knew the Leafs were getting value out of Phaneuf and their UFA's. He had an overpaid top 4 defenseman who was still very useful at the time, and helped Ottawa get far into the playoffs, and used his financial muscle by taking on a bunch of overpaid deals and taking less (arguably a lot less) trade value in lieu of retention. He traded his UFA's for market value, which is the minimum of what Dubas has been able to manage to receive in the vast majority of his trades. BTW, Dubas was the one who got a lot of that "found money" for Lou. He was the one who went bargain bin hunting, bringing back Winnik, acquiring Spaling in the Kessel trade, signing Matthias, PA Parenteau, etc. for Lou to be able to trade before Lou was even made GM.

He signed Rielly and Kadri to market-value deals. He bet on both of them and their potential and shockingly, as is the case with the vast majority of RFA's, they grew into it. In fact, it took Rielly a year to grow into it. However Dubas does the same thing with higher end guys and suddenly he is a pariah for messing up the cap, despite having literally all of the RFA's except Marner grow into, or exceed, their contracts within one year? However does not shock me at all. Happens all the time with high end RFA's (i.e. Drasaitl, Eichel, etc.).

His best move was, as I said, getting a goalie. He overpaid, but good for him. That's what he's been able to do well in New York too. He was hardly the worst GM we've ever had. He was certainly better than Nonis and Burke, and I would rather have him back than using Hunter. However the largest driver of his success was lucking out on Matthews and having him, Marner and Nylander on an ELC for much of his successful tenure. He was fine, but fine is not winning us Cups. Dubas is much better than fine and gives us a much better chance at winning a Cup than him.

Pretty good take on Lou.

Imo his best moves were in that first season. Did very well in particular with movibg those bodies out. The problems start to grow when things shift to the "build" phase for him. Would have been nice to keep those seconds.

Not the end of the world, but its not something I would have liked to see continue
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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The trade was poorly conceived from the beginning. There’s no need for hindsight.

Rarely ever do rentals work out, especially when it’s predicated on the notion that Plekanec owns the Bruins. Then you add the fact that he’s a mid 30 something on a steep decline at season, didn’t want to leave Montreal, and also a Czech dude who didn’t mesh with the young North American core, so there wasn’t even a possibility of some short term mentorship.

Basically a terrible 1999-2004 era rental move where a team goes out and trades for Jiri Slegr or Dainius Zubrus. And doesn’t work. Bad, random, expensive. Basically like a bad buy on eBay.
 

frog

Registered User
Apr 8, 2014
2,436
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Canada
Plekanec was a perfect trade only guy that pissed off Marchand and rattled Bergeron... No one else on the leafs were capable of that. Only reason we got him was because Boston hated him
 
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Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,740
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Plekanec was a perfect trade only guy that pissed off Marchand and rattled Bergeron... No one else on the leafs were capable of that. Only reason we got him was because Boston hated him

He played 12 minutes a game and got out-chanced almost 2-to-1. I don't know who he rattled, but it seems to have encouraged them to absolutely curb stomp him on the ice.
 

frog

Registered User
Apr 8, 2014
2,436
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Canada
He played 12 minutes a game and got out-chanced almost 2-to-1. I don't know who he rattled, but it seems to have encouraged them to absolutely curb stomp him on the ice.
Regular season yeah terrible. Best player for leafs in a few games in playoffs... I'm talking playoffs against Boston he was well worth it. Not regular season
 

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,740
16,531
Regular season yeah terrible. Best player for leafs in a few games in playoffs... I'm talking playoffs against Boston he was well worth it. Not regular season

Those are his playoff numbers.

Pastrnak: 13 points in 7 games
Marchand: 9 points in 7 games
Bergeron: 8 points in 6 games

If that's what "rattling" Marchand and Bergeron looks like, I'm scared to think what they would have done to us without him.
 
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Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,159
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Plekanec had 2 goals 4 points and was a plus 1 in 7 post season games. He was one of three players with a positive plus minus. He lived up to his price tag. he was getting under the top lines skin.... he set a good example to the young leafs of what it takes to beat the Bruins and play playoff hockey. Only thing that he could have done more to provide a more positive outcome that postseason was to slash Gardiners kneecap before game 7.


A 2nd round pick typically does not buy you a playoff game changer. We got what we paid for.
 

The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,948
10,198
Toronto
Basically acquiring Plekanec with found money!!. This is the transaction that Leaf Nation fans want to bemoan about years later of a playoff rental player?.

Im not going to touch the rest of this post because clearly you have a love for Lou, but this is just dumb.

If you found $1 million dollar and used all of it on a Honda, would it be a good deal?
 

LeafSteel

GO LEAFS GO!!!
Mar 5, 2014
5,699
8,496
Toronto
The trade was poorly conceived from the beginning. There’s no need for hindsight.

Rarely ever do rentals work out, especially when it’s predicated on the notion that Plekanec owns the Bruins. Then you add the fact that he’s a mid 30 something on a steep decline at season, didn’t want to leave Montreal, and also a Czech dude who didn’t mesh with the young North American core, so there wasn’t even a possibility of some short term mentorship.

Basically a terrible 1999-2004 era rental move where a team goes out and trades for Jiri Slegr or Dainius Zubrus. And doesn’t work. Bad, random, expensive. Basically like a bad buy on eBay.

Quoted for truth..... 100%
 

Moonman

Registered User
Jul 3, 2015
317
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I suppose we can talk about it, but to be perfectly honest I'd rather forget the whole thing happened.
 
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frog

Registered User
Apr 8, 2014
2,436
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Canada
Those are his playoff numbers.

Pastrnak: 13 points in 7 games
Marchand: 9 points in 7 games
Bergeron: 8 points in 6 games

If that's what "rattling" Marchand and Bergeron looks like, I'm scared to think what they would have done to us without him.
He played literally 2 games matched up against Marchand and Bergeron and they had there worst games of the series. Prior to that they dominated the other leaf matchups hence the solid numbers... Plekanec was the only guy able to keep up with the line no one else did, when Plekanec was not on the ice Bergeron Marchand scored
 

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
4,600
Toronto
So its...

Pleks
for
Kerby Rychel - Done nothing in the NHL, spent a year in the KHL
Rinat Valiev - AHL D man who is average at best
and the 2nd rounder is now...
Jacob Olofsson - He looks... ok? in the SHL, but nothing special.

Other guys drafted around that spot (if your a person who says bUt DuBaS would have taken x)
next 5 are Axel Andersson, Filip Hallander, Gabriel Fortier, David Gustafsson and Ivan Morozov.
No real standouts there.

IMO in the end its two 'meh' at best AHLers and a 2nd rounder in a spot where no one's a big value yet.

My original discussion and point has nothing to do with whether we won this trade or not.

I wanted to express how little I cared for Plekanec. I think he could have elevated his game even in a 4th line role. Most of the time he looked disinterested in helping TOR win.
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
Or, you know, you can trade the 2nd for someone who isn't below replacement level and a few months away from being a Czech league grinder.

If you trade 100$ of unscratched lottery tickets to someone for a half eaten gas station hot dog, you didn't make a good trade just because none of the tickets won anything.
Oh I dont disagree at all. Was just looking at it from what we gave vs what they got. Not what the opportunity cost kind of looks like.
Guys who were traded for less or roughly the same package who would have been nice both short and long term is long from that TDL (not taking into account they were looking for a C)
  • F - P Maroon went for a 3rd and prospect
  • D - I Cole for a 3rd and prospect
  • D - B Davidson for a 3rd
  • F - R Reaves + 4th for a prospect
  • F - M Grabner for a 2nd and prospect
  • F - F Vatrano for a 3rd
  • D - M Kempney for a 3rd

I know the thread wasnt about if we won or lost the trade, its about Pleks and how he was just forgettable. Just wanted to add a bit more info into the convo
 

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
4,600
Toronto
Oh I dont disagree at all. Was just looking at it from what we gave vs what they got. Not what the opportunity cost kind of looks like.
Guys who were traded for less or roughly the same package who would have been nice both short and long term is long from that TDL (not taking into account they were looking for a C)
  • F - P Maroon went for a 3rd and prospect
  • D - I Cole for a 3rd and prospect
  • D - B Davidson for a 3rd
  • F - R Reaves + 4th for a prospect
  • F - M Grabner for a 2nd and prospect
  • F - F Vatrano for a 3rd
  • D - M Kempney for a 3rd

I know the thread wasnt about if we won or lost the trade, its about Pleks and how he was just forgettable. Just wanted to add a bit more info into the convo

Hi 5
 

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