Can or will Sullivan be fired?

[Zbynek]

Giving up on Friedman was a weird thing, but doing it to the benefit of Ruhwedel boggles the mind.

Ruhwedel just earned another top PK line shift. Thanks a lot.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dubas is still on season 4 of a Paw Patrol binge. So I was gonna say another first round exit but honestly missing the playoffs again is also a reality. So by the time he's done all 11 seasons or so, the Pens will be beyond repair.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Giving up on Friedman was a weird thing, but doing it to the benefit of Ruhwedel boggles the mind.

"But he's a low event player compared to Friedman!"

<proceeds to be on the ice for the next 6 goals against>

 

[PaulD]

I don't have to, you & others do it non stop

your doing it now

 

[dr robbie]

2019 - out in round 1
2020 - out in play-in / round 1 (I thought he'd be fired here)
2021 - out in round 1
2022 - out in round 1
2023 - failed to make the playoffs

I feel like I can't vote because he was out of time multiple seasons ago and instead gets rewarded with an extension.

 

[spcastlemagic]

I can’t see them doing it this year. Guy is untouchable for some reason. Hopefully Dubas sacks up and uses that private plane access to ship Sully back to Boston.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Poor Mikey Sullivan. Only has 4 Hall of Famers to work with (potentially 5 with Jake)

Maybe if he had like 10 HOF's he could actually win a playoff game. But probably not...

 

[Pens1566]

2019 - out in round 1
2020 - out in play-in / round 1 (I thought he'd be fired here)
2021 - out in round 1
2022 - out in round 1
2023 - failed to make the playoffs

I feel like I can't vote because he was out of time multiple seasons ago and instead gets rewarded with an extension.

It's even worse when you count up the actual GAMES won in the playoffs. They had won only 3 games in 3 years prior to the '22 series with the Rags.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

2019 - out in round 1
2020 - out in play-in / round 1 (I thought he'd be fired here)
2021 - out in round 1
2022 - out in round 1
2023 - failed to make the playoffs

Build this man a statue already!

 

[Ugene Magic]

The ten plagues have been unleashed!

1. Ice turns to mud
2. Will see a swarm of shot blocks
3. A power play drought
4. Fandom pestilence
5. Turnovers at the bluelines
6. Bad line changes
7. Team will age rapidly, no depth
8. Prospects will all turn to dust
9. Goalies will have all gone into shell shock
10. No playoffs

 

[Freeptop]

I admit to finding it weird that the narrative is "FSG has tons of money, so they can go and do X" where is X is anything from spending to the Cap, to spending more on WB/S to hiring more staff.... unless X is "fire Sullivan because he has a multi-year contract."

If they lose out on their West coast trip, they'd be coming home with a 5 game losing streak. I have a hard time thinking FSG or Dubas would be fine with that, considering the moves made in the offseason. Especially since that includes two bad teams in the Sharks and Ducks.

I mean, they've already changed the front office and half the roster, so the only realistic next step would be a coaching change. I can at least see how FSG and Dubas could have talked themselves into believing that Sullivan was at fault for the last few years, but this year? When he doesn't seem to have any answers? Well, it becomes plausible that they'd make a change, at least.

Granted, I'm not exactly confident about this.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I admit to finding it weird that the narrative is "FSG has tons of money, so they can go and do X" where is X is anything from spending to the Cap, to spending more on WB/S to hiring more staff.... unless X is "fire Sullivan because he has a multi-year contract."

If they lose out on their West coast trip, they'd be coming home with a 5 game losing streak. I have a hard time thinking FSG or Dubas would be fine with that, considering the moves made in the offseason. Especially since that includes two bad teams in the Sharks and Ducks.

I mean, they've already changed the front office and half the roster, so the only realistic next step would be a coaching change. I can at least see how FSG and Dubas could have talked themselves into believing that Sullivan was at fault for the last few years, but this year? When he doesn't seem to have any answers? Well, it becomes plausible that they'd make a change, at least.

Granted, I'm not exactly confident about this.

I forget the exact numbers, but from puck drop in game 1 through mid-December last year, the Pens had streaks of losing 7 in a row, winning 5 in a row, and another 7 in a row.

I think they'd have to f***ing crater hard for it to even be any bit realistic tbh. Like miss by enough to get a top-5 pick kinda bad, and even then, I'm not sure FSG would just shrug and chalk it up to the age of the team and misfortune.

I keep saying it, but I have a genuine concern that Mike Sullivan is gonna be in charge of coaching the next crop of elite prospects this team stockpiles after Sid's retired. I can't wait for him to do what Ducharme did to Caufield's game, or Melrose did to Stamkos' game, or Gallant did to Lafreniere's game, etc.

 

[LOGiK]

This is a unique situation he finds himself in....
Long contract. After sid - geno, who cares.
It is a languid approach to running this organization until after the big-three retire.
Fire him NOW... but are the big three too old to reverse, turn around and try again.
Or KEEP HIM NOW, for the post big three era, because it doesn't really matter who coaches at that point so, why not keep him to coach no talent grinders.

That is the dilemma. imo.
Fire now, would it matter.
If it is not instantly right fast quickly, yesterday already fast.... why bother? I... we... saw this coming for years, how couldn't they? They know, as long as tickets sell and merch sells... that would be above making the post-season I would imagine... profit. Number one goal, profit. So... I imagine they are working positively on that front (gain)... and not until a loss of revenue... would they strike at the deeply rooted mucked up and sullied hc and whoever is close to him.

that is MO.

 

[BHD]

Nov.12th. I say he's dismissed that morning if they lose to the Sabres - a decent, but beatable team - at home the night before.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nov.12th. I say he's dismissed that morning if they lose to the Sabres - a decent, but beatable team - at home the night before.

I think we'd be hearing a lot more chatter from the Pittsburgh sports media to the tune of questioning or outright turning on Sullivan if there was any legitimacy to the guy being on the hot seat. /shrug

When the wind shifts and guys like Yohe and Rorabough stop kissing the ass of a coach, GM or player and start openly criticizing them in their articles or tweets, that's kinda when you know things are about to end for the folks involved.

The one thing they can be counted upon is to carry water for the organization, even if it means running damage control and pulling a 180 in public opinion of a guy they were just worshipping a week before.

 

[Freeptop]

I forget the exact numbers, but from puck drop in game 1 through mid-December last year, the Pens had streaks of losing 7 in a row, winning 5 in a row, and another 7 in a row.

I think they'd have to f***ing crater hard for it to even be any bit realistic tbh. Like miss by enough to get a top-5 pick kinda bad, and even then, I'm not sure FSG would just shrug and chalk it up to the age of the team and misfortune.

I keep saying it, but I have a genuine concern that Mike Sullivan is gonna be in charge of coaching the next crop of elite prospects this team stockpiles after Sid's retired. I can't wait for him to do what Ducharme did to Caufield's game, or Melrose did to Stamkos' game, or Gallant did to Lafreniere's game, etc.

The thing is, last year the excuse was still "Hextall".
Now FSG has their choice for the GM, and that GM has remade half the roster. So I can see how it would be plausible that they view this year as being different than last year.

That said, there's a reason I said wasn't confident!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The thing is, last year the excuse was still "Hextall".
Now FSG has their choice for the GM, and that GM has remade half the roster. So I can see how it would be plausible that they view this year as being different than last year.

That said, there's a reason I said wasn't confident!

I think we gotta stop pretending it's just Hextall, or just Sullivan, or just Jarry, or just Domingue. This team's had a myriad of problems for years. Sullivan sucks shit. But he's been part of a three-pronged effort that's torpedoed this team since the back to backs. JR went full psychotic with his decisions after the 2017 Cup. Hextall was a f***ing imbecile through and through, and probably never works a FO job again after what happened in Philly and Pittsburgh with him at the helm. The three of those guys and their body of work over the past half decade-plus is just wild. The amount of assets wasted chasing lackluster acquisitions, the miserable track record of scouting/drafting/development, and a coach growing more and more spitefully stubborn--just equates to what we're seeing for the past couple of years.

Shit, Mario's refusal to do anything after the 2020 play-in likely sealed this era's fate tbh. If he'd have nuked the FO and coaching staff then and there, they might've had time to make the changes for one last serious run. Then FSG took over a bit later and their decision to extend a coach four consecutive 1st round exits deep, two years before his current deal was even up. Then they allowed Hextall to stick around despite barely acting, and when he did, it was a coin flip as to whether it was a decent move (initially landing Carter, initially landing Rakell) or a shitshow (Kap extension into waiving, Carter extension for two years with a NMC, protecting Carter in the ED, McGinn's four [four? can't recall] year deal, the Great Blueline Shuffle™, Granlund). It's a combination, imo.

Sullivan's f***ing awful, but the decisions this team's made since the 2nd of the back to backs, from the FO as well as ownership, all combine to be why this team's decline has been precipitous and steady. They're never proactive in their moves, they always take too long to act.

-edit- I think we're all pushing aside the very real possibility that the team just simply does nothing if/when they crash and burn again. Chalking it up to misfortune, or Jarry, or whatever. Can't be Sully's fault--never is.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think we gotta stop pretending it's just Hextall, or just Sullivan, or just Jarry, or just Domingue. This team's had a myriad of problems for years. Sullivan sucks shit. But he's been part of a three-pronged effort that's torpedoed this team since the back to backs. JR went full psychotic with his decisions after the 2017 Cup. Hextall was a f***ing imbecile through and through, and probably never works a FO job again after what happened in Philly and Pittsburgh with him at the helm. The three of those guys and their body of work over the past half decade-plus is just wild. The amount of assets wasted chasing lackluster acquisitions, the miserable track record of scouting/drafting/development, and a coach growing more and more spitefully stubborn--just equates to what we're seeing for the past couple of years.

Shit, Mario's refusal to do anything after the 2020 play-in likely sealed this era's fate tbh. If he'd have nuked the FO and coaching staff then and there, they might've had time to make the changes for one last serious run. Then FSG took over a bit later and their decision to extend a coach four consecutive 1st round exits deep, two years before his current deal was even up. Then they allowed Hextall to stick around despite barely acting, and when he did, it was a coin flip as to whether it was a decent move (initially landing Carter, initially landing Rakell) or a shitshow (Kap extension into waiving, Carter extension for two years with a NMC, protecting Carter in the ED, McGinn's four [four? can't recall] year deal, the Great Blueline Shuffle™, Granlund). It's a combination, imo.

Sullivan's f***ing awful, but the decisions this team's made since the 2nd of the back to backs, from the FO as well as ownership, all combine to be why this team's decline has been precipitous and steady. They're never proactive in their moves, they always take too long to act.

I don’t see how this roster is as bad as you want to make it.

Rangers are winning with many bad contracts and older players. And Shesterkin has been mediocre.

Islanders are winning with many bad contracts and older players.

Hell, look at Philly. We can say it’s all of these things but I just don’t believe it. Our issues largely lie with a coach because everyone sucks.

I don’t even think the decisions we have made since the cup wins are that bad. I think we’ve just had a coach who has no idea how to properly utilize players to their strengths rather than what he wants them to be strong at.

 

[Andy99]

I don’t see how this roster is as bad as you want to make it.

Rangers are winning with many bad contracts and older players. And Shesterkin has been mediocre.

Islanders are winning with many bad contracts and older players.

Hell, look at Philly. We can say it’s all of these things but I just don’t believe it. Our issues largely lie with a coach because everyone sucks.

I don’t even think the decisions we have made since the cup wins are that bad. I think we’ve just had a coach who has no idea how to properly utilize players to their strengths rather than what he wants them to be strong at.

All of those three are examples of teams that are playing a defensive system first and foremost..none of them are particularly fast…this is what many of us have been clamoring for the Pens to do if they want to win, like they played against Colorado…it shouldn’t be a one off…yes Sullivan is to blame

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This roster isn't that bad, in terms of their ability to dictate terms and things like that.
They unfortunately suck where it counts most though. That results in losses.

That's what a strong shooting team looks like.

And that's us.

 

[canadianguy77]

All of those three are examples of teams that are playing a defensive system first and foremost..none of them are particularly fast…this is what many of us have been clamoring for the Pens to do if they want to win, like they played against Colorado…it shouldn’t be a one off…yes Sullivan is to blame

I thought in the Colorado game that the team as a whole was extremely aggressive defensively. Everyone was above their man and hardly gave the Avalanche any time or space. They played like that the next game too, but the results weren’t the same.

If this team needs to do anything, it’s to work on one timers. I’ve never in my life witnessed a team so loathe to attempt one-timers. Our guys are always settling the puck down first and that gives goalies too much of an advantage. The high danger chances they need are right there. To a man, they just need to get the shots off a little faster. If you don’t have the personnel to get greasy goals, you’re going to have to really hone in on your one-timers because it’s basically impossible to score goals any other way in the league.

Of course, the coach could just rearrange the lines a bit to get a net front guy on every line, but we know he won’t do that.

 

[Andy99]

This roster isn't that bad, in terms of their ability to dictate terms and things like that.
They unfortunately suck where it counts most though. That results in losses.

View attachment 761287
That's what a strong shooting team looks like.

View attachment 761288
And that's us.

Right but I think the issue is is that just solely a function of us not having players with great shots, or something else (like not getting screens, to the net, being a north-south focused team without much physicality at the net)? It’s a combo of both imo but there’s a strong argument that it’s the system and players who don’t fit it…you should look at the same Canucks players from last season…guarantee their shooting % wasn’t particularly good…there’s a lot to be said for finding a system that fits the players you have, over and above talent

I thought in the Colorado game that the team as a whole was extremely aggressive defensively. Everyone was above their man and hardly gave the Avalanche any time or space. They played like that the next game too, but the results weren’t the same.

If this team needs to do anything, it’s to work on one timers. I’ve never in my life witnessed a team so loathe to attempt one-timers. Our guys are always settling the puck down first and that gives goalies too much of an advantage. The high danger chances they need are right there. To a man, they just need to get the shots off a little faster. If you don’t have the personnel to get greasy goals, you’re going to have to really hone in on your one-timers because it’s basically impossible to score goals any other way in the league.

Of course, the coach could just rearrange the lines a bit to get a net front guy on every line, but we know he won’t do that.

Imo they didn’t play like that against Ottawa…what happened in Ottawa was they got down pretty quickly and abandoned any approach that might have been defensive but I didn’t see them playing a passive 1-2-2 at all…nonetheless, they got down and then abandoned whatever it was they were doing because Ottawa went into a NZ trap and Pens couldnt deal w it lol

getting shots off faster (with the same accuracy), as well as lack of net presence, is part of the problem as well…I don’t think we have the players to do that however, not a strength of our top six

 

[vodeni]

I spent some decent time lately on these boards and got caught with the notion that Sully's demise is iminent...than I checked the reprters that around the team and try to track anyone with some internal knowledge and no one mention this even in passing...Most of the people are actually happy with their "dominating performance and basically hanging everything on Jarry....So I am taking different approach from now on, rooting for Sully, hoping that puck will start miraculously getting in the net and get some puck luck...I was sad not being able to watch them in playoffs, dont want this to happen again

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don’t see how this roster is as bad as you want to make it.

Rangers are winning with many bad contracts and older players. And Shesterkin has been mediocre.

Islanders are winning with many bad contracts and older players.

Hell, look at Philly. We can say it’s all of these things but I just don’t believe it. Our issues largely lie with a coach because everyone sucks.

I don’t even think the decisions we have made since the cup wins are that bad. I think we’ve just had a coach who has no idea how to properly utilize players to their strengths rather than what he wants them to be strong at.

I know you don't, because you're psychotically obsessed with this idea that Mike Sullivan is somehow an all powerful, nefarious monster as opposed to just your average shitty NHL coach with his head stuck up his own ass and an obsession with vets who play no-event hockey.

It never crosses your mind how things have gotten to this point, it's just Sully. "Hey maybe the thought process behind targeting then spending assets on a useless loser like Reaves was garbage" or "consistently spending 1st liner prices for 3rd liners sucks" or "the FO and scouting group that targeted JJ and locked into a 5 year deal was an all-world awful move" or "trading for a $5 million paperweight signed for years with Granlund was f***ing awful" or "what a waste of time and attention to shuffle the blueline around to absolutely zero effect". It's always just simply Sullivan's fault. Because that's easier than realizing this team's been too full of an arrogance and rot for years to actually reflect on things and make proactive changes. You once tried to tell me Hextall was basically the perfect GM for this team, and gave me shit for saying the 2nd year of Carter's deal was awful and gonna bite them in the ass.

It ain't just Sullivan, despite what you desperately want, man. He's absolutely a coach years beyond his expiration at this point, and has had nothing but praise and positive reinforcement heaped upon him because he happened to be in the right place at the right time which lead to two back to back Cups. It's been a combined effort from essentially all the decision makers in this organization, past as well as present, since 2017.

I know you'll take my post as some sort of defense of Sullivan even though I've been saying he's a fraud and should be fired for years, because anything short of a foaming at the mouth hatred for the dude is spun and construed into defending and siding with him, but that's fine. Sullivan should've been gone years ago, but he's just one of a few key pieces in the process of torpedoing this team for many years. /shrug

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sullivan's not getting fired, at least not any time this season. So the faster people accept that, the better for their sanity.

We've seen this script before. It's never Sullivan's fault. It's the goalie. It's the bottom six. It's the stars not being good enough. It's the unlucky bounces. It's the concession stands being too busy. It's the parking lot attendants. It's that guy who stands by the stop light holding up a sign asking for money.

Every single item on that list will be blamed before Sullivan. And so we'll go into NEXT season with 50% of the roster revamped and we'll get off to yet another shitty start, looking shitty, and once again talk about which players needed to be swapped out. Rinse and repeat.