NYR traded Winnipeg back its first round pick they originally got for Kevin Hayes a few months earlier (20th overall). Hronek and a 2nd round pick would have been a competitive offer, but Winnipeg wanted back in the 1st round. Doing both Hronek and Detroit 1st overall would have been an overpayment.Would I have signed Trouba to the deal he got? absolutely but that was not an option.
NYR traded a 1st and Pionk for him. Our equivalent offer would have to have been something like hronek + 1st (seider) for Trouba and a 2nd. That really hurts our pipeline.
NYR traded Winnipeg back its first round pick they originally got for Kevin Hayes a few months earlier (20th overall). Hronek and a 2nd round pick would have been a competitive offer, but Winnipeg wanted back in the 1st round. Doing both Hronek and Detroit 1st overall would have been an overpayment.
NYR traded a 1st and Pionk for him. Our equivalent offer would have to have been something like hronek + 1st (seider) for Trouba and a 2nd. That really hurts our pipeline.
In what universe was Pionk more established than Hronek last season? Hronek is also two years younger and clearly has more long-term potential. Hronek in Winnipeg would be a beast offensively.our 2nd would have been 17 slots lower than the pick they got and Pionk was a more established piece than hronek that the Jets were clearly high on. If we offered the Jets a 2nd and hronek they are still taking the Rangers package.
You gotta beat the deal in the eyes of the jets rather than matching it in the eyes of a wings fan.
In what universe was Pionk more established than Hronek last season? Hronek is also two years younger and clearly has more long-term potential. Hronek in Winnipeg would be a beast offensively.
our 2nd would have been 17 slots lower than the pick they got and Pionk was a more established piece than hronek that the Jets were clearly high on.
I'm not really sure where that 2nd came from attached to Trouba, but Hronek and #6OA is way more than Pionk and #20OA. I also doubt the Jets wanted to give up any additional assets along with Trouba.
There's also probably no way the Wings move #6OA in any trade at that point. I don't even think Pionk and #20OA is worth #6OA at that point...
Pionk's value at the time was probably somewhere between Hronek's and Cholowski's. Hronek and #35OA that the Wings had at the time is probably closer to Pionk and #20OA. Although, I'm sure the Wings didn't want to move Hronek either, so their best course was probably to package up Cholowski with #35OA and another one of their 2019 2nd's (#54OA and #60OA) or their 2020 2nd, and possibly another later pick.
That said, I'm guessing the Jets valued getting an NHL ready dman in Pionk over a less ready (yet less cap impacting) prospect like Cholowski since they probably already anticipated losing Myers and Chiarot in addition to Trouba, and it isn't a secret they are the least considered possible landing spot for UFA's...
I threw the 2nd in there recognizing that our 1st was a lot more valuable than the 1st the rangers gave up.
I mostly find your post agreeable but from the jets perspective they were getting an NHL dman with more than a full season of games under his belt and a 1st round pick. That's a nice package and to your point Cholo and a bunch of 2nds wouldn't catch their interest in the same way. This is why I'm arguing if we wanted to be serious about adding Trouba we have to beat the package the Rangers gave up.
But the bottom line here is the discussion isn't about just signing Trouba for 8 Million per season. The convo is about giving up multiple quality assets plus signing trouba to the contract.
What reason is there to believe that Trouba has untapped offensive and possession potential? He is what he is at this point, the next generation is in full swing and a cut above.
his age? He’s what, 25? The average defenseman really doesn’t reach their peak until 27ish. He has plenty of time to improve.
p.s. I have no dog in this fight. I just don’t like someone claiming a 25 yo defenseman is a definite finished product.
his age? He’s what, 25? The average defenseman really doesn’t reach their peak until 27ish. He has plenty of time to improve.
p.s. I have no dog in this fight. I just don’t like someone claiming a 25 yo defenseman is a definite finished product.
this sounds flat out made up as far as offensive peak goes
especially for defensemen that entered the league at a young enough age that they will already have 500+ games played by the time they are 27
I think it’s a pretty common sentiment.
It is in general. But notice you quoted me saying "offensive and possession" not "in general".
I think it's worth bringing up as a barometer for sure. I think it's part of what is making me confident in saying Trouba's ceiling is within sight though.
It's easy to see how players like Lidstrom, or Heiskenen or Cholowski can really boost their last development stage around 27. I think players like Trouba, Stuart and Foote, who are more mature out of the gate, are more likely to be dependent on their surroundings and a more static form to their games as they age into their 30's.