C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL)

[93LEAFS]

So were talking ROR potential vs Kucherov potential?

If you want to label Zadina the next Kucherov or in a similar vein name Brady Tkachuk the next Benn, then Kotkaniemi probably deserves to be labeled as a future Barkov. All of those are on the extreme end of possible outcomes. Expect Zadina to be closer to someone like prime Vanek and expect Tkachuk to be closer to Landeskog.

 

[Peasy]

So were talking ROR potential vs Kucherov potential?

I could see Zadina putting up points similar to Forsberg.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Someone said offensive minded Barkov and thought it was a good comparison when I saw him play.

 

[BB88]

I try not to judge from international tourny's only, so I say I know nothing about his play. But I have seen him at the U18 & U20 tourny's where he was good.

From what I'm hearing though, the potential is just below #1 C...and people seem to be confirming that. So why in this case is it more important to draft for team need rather than BPA.

So they should take Tkatchuk?
Kotka is getting top5 ranked now, with Bob saying there's no clear
3-
4-
5-
6-
7-
8-
9-.
It's a mystery from 3-9. None of us no the order of that.

Barkov pick was questioned at the time he was drafted, he's a ppg 2way beast today.
Laine's skating was questioned, he's already scored 36& 44 goals, just turned 20y.
Rantanen's game was questioned(similar points production to Kotkaniemie+ almost a year older), he put up 84 points this past season.

Kotkaniemi played on a low scoring team and was 3rd on his team in scoring while being clearly the youngest player on the roster.
None of us can say for sure he doesn't have #1C potential, it's time will show.

 

[Gsus]

He has a great shot which he needs to use more often.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

He has a great shot which he needs to use more often.

I remember at 9:25 thinking ...wow

 

[chaosrevolver]

So were talking ROR potential vs Kucherov potential?

If Zadina had Kucherov potential hed be number 2 in the draft

 

[chaosrevolver]

I try not to judge from international tourny's only, so I say I know nothing about his play. But I have seen him at the U18 & U20 tourny's where he was good.

From what I'm hearing though, the potential is just below #1 C...and people seem to be confirming that. So why in this case is it more important to draft for team need rather than BPA.

I think most agree Zadina and Tkachuk are hardly guaranteed number one line wingers. Tkachuk has numerous red flags while Zadina isnt even a top 5 player in draft according to a fair amount of scouts.

Kotkaniemi has his issues but most seem to feel his potential is more likely reached as a really good 2nd line center or a decent 1st line center. Doesnt mean he cant be better or worse of course.

 

[Smif]

If Zadina had Kucherov potential hed be number 2 in the draft

Kucherov didn't have Kucherov potential at the draft tho, right...???

 

[BigRangy]

Kucherov didn't have Kucherov potential at the draft tho, right...???

He did but he was Russian right during the peak of Russian Factor bias

He slaughtered the u18s and the MHL

 

[Peasy]

I think most agree Zadina and Tkachuk are hardly guaranteed number one line wingers. Tkachuk has numerous red flags while Zadina isnt even a top 5 player in draft according to a fair amount of scouts.

Kotkaniemi has his issues but most seem to feel his potential is more likely reached as a really good 2nd line center or a decent 1st line center. Doesnt mean he cant be better or worse of course.

Every player not named Dahlin or Svechnikov would be out of the top 5 for a fair amount of scouts...

To be fair, hes still ranked higher than Kotk, and top 5 on all the major consensus lists.

 

[BobbyShehan]

My main issue with Kotkaniemi at 3rd is the risk factor. He's almost a year younger than Zadina and Tkachuk and what propelled him into the top 5 is ONE tournament, at the end of the year. You know what you're getting with Zadina, a first line goal scorer, and with Tkachuk, although to a lesser degree. No one can seriously say that Kotkaniemi is gonna be a first line center in 3 or 4 years. He might very well turn into Kopitar or he could end up being DeLaRose... if everything goes bad! MacKenzie's ranking is a poll of ten scouts, not an evaluation. These scouts might have put him in the top 5 because they know teams are desperate for talent at C. He will be picked before he should be but whoever picks him is rolling the dice. At 3rd, to me, it's not a risk worth taken.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

My main issue with Kotkaniemi at 3rd is the risk factor. He's almost a year younger than Zadina and Tkachuk and what propelled him into the top 5 is ONE tournament, at the end of the year. You know what you're getting with Zadina, a first line goal scorer, and with Tkachuk, although to a lesser degree. No one can seriously say that Kotkaniemi is gonna be a first line center in 3 or 4 years. He might very well turn into Kopitar or he could end up being DeLaRose... if everything goes bad! MacKenzie's ranking is a poll of ten scouts, not an evaluation. These scouts might have put him in the top 5 because they know teams are desperate for talent at C. He will be picked before he should be but whoever picks him is rolling the dice. At 3rd, to me, it's not a risk worth taken.

Kotkaniemi is described as having a high floor. At worse, he becomes a 2nd/3rd line center.

The fact that he's 7 months younger than Zadina and only ranked 1 spot behind him makes it even better. With the way he has been improving and rising, no doubt he wouldve surpassed Zadina had he played those 7 extra months.

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

My main issue with Kotkaniemi at 3rd is the risk factor. He's almost a year younger than Zadina and Tkachuk and what propelled him into the top 5 is ONE tournament, at the end of the year. You know what you're getting with Zadina, a first line goal scorer, and with Tkachuk, although to a lesser degree. No one can seriously say that Kotkaniemi is gonna be a first line center in 3 or 4 years. He might very well turn into Kopitar or he could end up being DeLaRose... if everything goes bad! MacKenzie's ranking is a poll of ten scouts, not an evaluation. These scouts might have put him in the top 5 because they know teams are desperate for talent at C. He will be picked before he should be but whoever picks him is rolling the dice. At 3rd, to me, it's not a risk worth taken.

He steadily rose in the rankings because of how well he performed in the SM-Liiga this season, his status cemented itself after the WJC18 where he confirmed the level of play he played all year long. He performed similarly to Rantanen draft-eligible year who was over half a year older. Rantanen did 84 points in his third year of pro hockey.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Every player not named Dahlin or Svechnikov would be out of the top 5 for a fair amount of scouts...

To be fair, hes still ranked higher than Kotk, and top 5 on all the major consensus lists.

Definitely. That's why I like Zadina a lot. I just dispute the why pass on a future 1st liner for a 2nd liner when both guys have issues that may keep them from 1st line status but both have that potential too.

 

[NHL]

It is very impressive to watch him with such confidence and poise againt mens even if it's Liiga. He seems to play with a lot of control and authority. He sometimes look like he's freezing opponents (mens) when he has the puck, a thing only good players are able to do. At 17 y/o, no doubt he's worth the early pick IMO. He will be an interesting player to follow.

 

[BobbyShehan]

Kotkaniemi is described as having a high floor. At worse, he becomes a 2nd/3rd line center.

Exactly what I'm sayin'. Would you rather pick a guy who could wind up being your 3rd line center or a guy who's pretty much guaranteed to be your top scorer on the wing?

 

[BobbyShehan]

He steadily rose in the rankings because of how well he performed in the SM-Liiga this season, his status cemented itself after the WJC18 where he confirmed the level of play he played all year long. He performed similarly to Rantanen draft-eligible year who was over half a year older. Rantanen did 84 points in his third year of pro hockey.

He didn't "steadily rose in the rankings". At best, he was ranked around the 12th pick up until the WJC18. All I'm saying is that he's a late riser and much of it has to do with this tournament. I find it a little thin compared to the body of work of guys who were ranked in the top 5 for most of the year. Again, he might be the best player but he's much more of a risk to me.

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

He didn't "steadily rose in the rankings". At best, he was ranked around the 12th pick up until the WJC18. All I'm saying is that he's a late riser and much of it has to do with this tournament. I find it a little thin compared to the body of work of guys who were ranked in the top 5 for most of the year. Again, he might be the best player but he's much more of a risk to me.

Kotka was out of the top20 at the begining of the season then 19th in January then 10th on April (Bob's lists), and as we know 3 to 11 is a crapshoot with players being interchangeable since players are all very close to one another. Now he is up to 5 (so most place him in a range of 3 to 10). If this isn't a steady rise, I don't know what could be define as one.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Exactly what I'm sayin'. Would you rather pick a guy who could wind up being your 3rd line center or a guy who's pretty much guaranteed to be your top scorer on the wing?

Zadina isnt a guaranteed top line winger. Svechnikov probably is.
Zadina's floor is top 6 forward, which implies he could end up a 2nd liner.

 

[McCoy]

Zadina's floor is top 6 forward, which implies he could end up a 2nd liner.

Also Svechnikov in top 6 in the team.

If Zadina had Kucherov potential hed be number 2 in the draft

Kucherov the new rockets like Fedorov.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think Zadina is the safer pick. He could likely step in as soon as October and be at least a good middle-six winger in the right situation. I think Kotkaniemi could ultimately end up being the more valuable asset but he's a couple years away.

Zadina wasn't called up for the World Championships because he was lacking serious physical strength playing against adults in Pardubice. I don't think Zadina plays pro-hockey in 2018-19

 

[Ippenator]

If Zadina had Kucherov potential hed be number 2 in the draft

Oh really? How on earth we can then explain Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidström getting picked only around the 5th round or even much later? Or a more recent prospect like Sebastian Aho getting picked only in the 2nd round? I guess all of them just got picked at the spot that their potential really was?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Oh really? How on earth we can then explain Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidström getting picked only around the 5th round or even much later? Or a more recent prospect like Sebastian Aho getting picked only in the 2nd round? I guess all of them just got picked at the spot that their potential really was?

I think he probably meant ''if it was widely thought that Zadina had Kucherov potential, he would be ranked 2nd.'' I'd actually argue 1st.

 

[BB88]

He didn't "steadily rose in the rankings". At best, he was ranked around the 12th pick up until the WJC18. All I'm saying is that he's a late riser and much of it has to do with this tournament. I find it a little thin compared to the body of work of guys who were ranked in the top 5 for most of the year. Again, he might be the best player but he's much more of a risk to me.

I don't know how many times it has to be said.
He was 3rd on his team in scoring, in a low scoring team. He put up elite points for a 17y prospect.

He's one of the younger prospects in this draft and his game got better as the season went on, finished it off as a #1C on a gold winning team.
Maybe he deserved to be ranked higher previously? It's not the 1st time, nor the last time European prospect would get underrated.

Oh really? How on earth we can then explain Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidström getting picked only around the 5th round or even much later? Or a more recent prospect like Sebastian Aho getting picked only in the 2nd round? I guess all of them just got picked at the spot that their potential really was?

That really wasn't the point.

If it was thought today his ceiling was Kucherov he would go 2nd, doesn't mean he can't turn into him but it's not in todays view.

If people thought Aho was the next Zetterberg on draft day no way in hell would he have gone on the 2nd round.