C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL) Part II

[Captain97]

I truly believe this pick will mean the end of Timmons scouting staff in Montreal.
GM soon to follow.

Why? He was projected as a top 5 pick by Bob Mackenzie. So if Bobby Mack had him going 5th in a draft where 3-12 were all similar in quality why would it matter?

 

[Dump Itch]

Does he play hockey?

 

[The Great Weal]

No points in the last month. He's going to bust.

Lol he was a bust the second the Habs drafted him

 

[lawrence]

I truly believe this pick will mean the end of Timmons scouting staff in Montreal.
GM soon to follow.

please explain why you think this.

 

[PKWeber]

I truly believe this pick will mean the end of Timmons scouting staff in Montreal.
GM soon to follow.

I can see Timmons being the next GM of the Wild after he leaves the Habs.

 

[MasterMatt25]

I can see Timmons being the next GM of the Wild after he leaves the Habs.

Timmins*, I could see him being our next GM once Bergy goes

 

[Thebesthockey]

Take all colorful comments above and replace by Alex Galchenyuk*

habs will f*** it up

 

[BB88]

The fear everyone should have is that Montreal keeps him in Montreal and starts the C-W-C-W circus with him as well.

Wherever he plays next season he needs to spent every minute at C.

 

[ijuka]

He should be playing in Finland for sure. What kind of a track record does Laval have? For Habs it'd be best if they don't do anything with him until he's NHL ready(might even be next season).

Staying there until the conclusion of Training camp should be out of the question for sure, he'd miss some 14 games in Liiga, all of which as a center.

 

[David Suzuki]

He should be playing in Finland for sure. What kind of a track record does Laval have? For Habs it'd be best if they don't do anything with him until he's NHL ready(might even be next season).

Staying there until the conclusion of Training camp should be out of the question for sure, he'd miss some 14 games in Liiga, all of which as a center.

New coaching staff in Laval so it's hard to say how it will be this season.

 

[Mrb1p]

He should be playing in Finland for sure. What kind of a track record does Laval have? For Habs it'd be best if they don't do anything with him until he's NHL ready(might even be next season).

Staying there until the conclusion of Training camp should be out of the question for sure, he'd miss some 14 games in Liiga, all of which as a center.

Track record is bad, but Joel Bouchard seems like a good teacher for kids.

 

[TwoPiece]

Why? He was projected as a top 5 pick by Bob Mackenzie. So if Bobby Mack had him going 5th in a draft where 3-12 were all similar in quality why would it matter?

Yes, because Bob MacKenzie is the be-all end-all hockey mind... He's often wrong, and IMO Kotkaniemi was not a Top-10 player in the 2018 Entry Draft. I was completely blown away at the thought of him being taken 3rd overall, but then I remembered that MTL was picking 3rd, so...

It's not as bad as who Ottawa and Arizona selected, though, so it's not like the Canadiens are the only ones who went full-Pejorative Slur on June 22nd.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes, because Bob MacKenzie is the be-all end-all hockey mind... He's often wrong, and IMO Kotkaniemi was not a Top-10 player in the 2018 Entry Draft. I was completely blown away at the thought of him being taken 3rd overall, but then I remembered that MTL was picking 3rd, so...

It's not as bad as who Ottawa and Arizona selected, though, so it's not like the Canadiens are the only ones who went full-****** on June 22nd.

Bob Mackenzie doesnt make the rankings. Its scouts that make it, ten of them, including two NHL head scouts.
Theres MTL that had him 3rd.
Theres Tim Burke that said he had him 3rd. (Sj head scout)
Theres Alain Chainey that said he had him 3rd (ducks ex head scout... Getzlaf and Perry.)
Plus Arizona picked Hayton at 5, we can assume they had Jesperi inside their top 5.

15 headscouts had him top 5.

 

[TwoPiece]

Bob Mackenzie doesnt make the rankings. Its scouts that make it, ten of them, including two NHL head scouts.
Theres MTL that had him 3rd.
Theres Tim Burke that said he had him 3rd. (Sj head scout)
Theres Alain Chainey that said he had him 3rd (ducks ex head scout... Getzlaf and Perry.)
Plus Arizona picked Hayton at 5, we can assume they had Jesperi inside their top 5.

15 headscouts had him top 5.

Okay..? In their opinion, he's a Top-5 player in the draft, for some reason. IMO he isn't. If I'm wrong, then MTL will be happy, when the outcome presents itself in the way of Kotkaniemi's play in the NHL. I couldn't care less. Bob MacKenzie, and anyone else with an opinion, aren't the only opinions that matter. And right now I think they're all wrong.

And, for the record, the individual I responded to directly referenced Bob MacKenzie's ranking. So, your response is really nothing other than smoke.

 

[Mrb1p]

Okay..? In their opinion, he's a Top-5 player in the draft, for some reason. IMO he isn't. If I'm wrong, then MTL will be happy, when the outcome presents itself in the way of Kotkaniemi's play in the NHL. I couldn't care less. Bob MacKenzie, and anyone else with an opinion, aren't the only opinions that matter. And right now I think they're all wrong.

And, for the record, the individual I responded to directly referenced Bob MacKenzie's ranking. So, your response is really nothing other than smoke.

Obviously, you have a right to your opinion, im just countering the point youve made about Bobs rankings, hes not the one that is wrong, its the scouting community. Its just as likely as Zadina busts as Kotkaniemi.

 

[Hfbsux]

Impossible to say who is a top 5 pick a month after the draft. I would not put a lot of emphasis on a Detroit's fan opinion on Kotkaniemi...

 

[TwoPiece]

Impossible to say who is a top 5 pick a month after the draft. I would not put a lot of emphasis on a Detroit's fan opinion on Kotkaniemi...

Why, exactly? Because I'm not a Montreal fan who will jerk off every prospect that they draft? I'm more of a fan of hockey than Detroit. They just happen to be my favorite organization in the NHL. I've seen tons and tons of players and prospects, and if anything, well-educated Detroit fans will have better amateur scouts than most other teams based on the amount of great players who have skated for the team throughout the last 30 years.

 

[TwoPiece]

Obviously, you have a right to your opinion, im just countering the point youve made about Bobs rankings, hes not the one that is wrong, its the scouting community. Its just as likely as Zadina busts as Kotkaniemi.

Well, obviously, Bob's opinion isn't the only one out there. I just wanted to clarify that his opinion doesn't end a debate or change much (if anything).

If there are more than 1 list out there with Kotkaniemi at #3 on it, that's fine, but that doesn't end the discussion. I think that he has the talent to make the NHL "for sure". I just don't think it was worth selecting him 3rd overall. IMO you draft potential elite players that high, and the decent amount that I've seen of Kotkaniemi doesn't not fit that description. I think it was a poor choice. We'll see a few years down the road who was correct.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Why? He was projected as a top 5 pick by Bob Mackenzie. So if Bobby Mack had him going 5th in a draft where 3-12 were all similar in quality why would it matter?

3 to 12 really weren't similar. There was an obvious 1-2-3 in that exact order and then a drop from 4 to 12 or so. Not picking Zadina at 3 was definitely going on organizational needs versus BPA.

 

[The Kessel Run]

Why, exactly? Because I'm not a Montreal fan who will jerk off every prospect that they draft? I'm more of a fan of hockey than Detroit. They just happen to be my favorite organization in the NHL. I've seen tons and tons of players and prospects, and if anything, well-educated Detroit fans will have better amateur scouts than most other teams based on the amount of great players who have skated for the team throughout the last 30 years.

You refuse to put any stock in professional scouts’ opinions, so why would you feel we need to put any stock in yours?

Edit - and I do agree that the pick was a reach personally.

 

[Mrb1p]

3 to 12 really weren't similar. There was an obvious 1-2-3 in that exact order and then a drop from 4 to 12 or so. Not picking Zadina at 3 was definitely going on organizational needs versus BPA.

Yes, Zadina was so much better than the rest that he got picked at 3.

Oh, wait.

 

[Hfbsux]

Why, exactly? Because I'm not a Montreal fan who will jerk off every prospect that they draft? I'm more of a fan of hockey than Detroit. They just happen to be my favorite organization in the NHL. I've seen tons and tons of players and prospects, and if anything, well-educated Detroit fans will have better amateur scouts than most other teams based on the amount of great players who have skated for the team throughout the last 30 years.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? The truth is you can't predict the future: nobody knows if Kotkaniemi will become a Kopital/Barkov kind of player and nobody know if Zadina will become the goal scorer he was in junior. As a habs (and hockey) fan, I wanted Zadina (1A) or Kotkaniemi (1B) at 3rd. With the skill set Kotkaniemi has, it is impossible to predict if he is a top 5 or not, simple as that. Only time will tell and that's exactly why I don't take your opinion seriously.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well, obviously, Bob's opinion isn't the only one out there. I just wanted to clarify that his opinion doesn't end a debate or change much (if anything).

If there are more than 1 list out there with Kotkaniemi at #3 on it, that's fine, but that doesn't end the discussion. I think that he has the talent to make the NHL "for sure". I just don't think it was worth selecting him 3rd overall. IMO you draft potential elite players that high, and the decent amount that I've seen of Kotkaniemi doesn't not fit that description. I think it was a poor choice. We'll see a few years down the road who was correct.

Who has elite potential aside from the two small Ds? No one.

 

[Mrb1p]

Can I borrow your crystal ball? The truth is you can't predict the future: nobody knows if Kotkaniemi will become a Kopital/Barkov kind of player and nobody know if Zadina will become the goal scorer he was in junior. As a habs (and hockey) fan, I wanted Zadina (1A) or Kotkaniemi (1B) at 3rd. With the skill set Kotkaniemi has, it is impossible to predict if he is a top 5 or not, simple as that. Only time will tell and that's exactly why I don't take your opinion seriously.

I doubt he ever becomes that good, but then again I doubt Zadina scores 40. The odds are similar on Kotkaniemi being a Kopitar like player and Zadina scoring forty. And I know which one I want if it pans out.

 

[TwoPiece]

You refuse to put any stock in professional scouts’ opinions, so why would you feel we need to put any stock in yours?

Edit - and I do agree that the pick was a reach personally.

Bob MacKenzie is not a professional scout. I do not weigh his opinion heavily. He's a decent hockey mind, but he's good at certain things, kinda how Pierre McGuire is good at memorizing how big Crosby's flat screen TV is in his family room.