C Mitchell Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) III

[Atomos2]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1918735

This made me laugh.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

What I want leaf nation to debate is who's better marner or nylander because as far as I can tell. Mariner is God and nylander is Jesus. Gotta love leaf nation

 

[Leafs at Knight]

What I want leaf nation to debate is who's better marner or nylander because as far as I can tell. Mariner is God and nylander is Jesus. Gotta love leaf nation

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1924797

God.

 

[bobbyt 91*]

Eichel >>> Marner

McDavid>>Eichel>Marner
easy 1-2-3 choice however Eichel has aspects of his game better than Marner but they are mostly size related aspects. For outright skill/skating Marner is right there or even better in some areas

 

[The Thin White Duke]

This is how our prospect overrating creeps in. Today its 'Marner might go 2nd if they were the same size' and tomorrow we're taking Marner = Eichel as a given.

Eichel is clearly a better player, he matches all of Marners strengths and brings his own (shot, size, physicality). Buffalo got a near generational prospect, that doesn't make me feel any worse about Marner shaping up to be a cornerstone forward for us.

 

[Nizdizzle]

This is how our prospect overrating creeps in. Today its 'Marner might go 2nd if they were the same size' and tomorrow we're taking Marner = Eichel as a given.

Eichel is clearly a better player, he matches all of Marners strengths and brings his own (shot, size, physicality). Buffalo got a near generational prospect, that doesn't make me feel any worse about Marner shaping up to be a cornerstone forward for us.

It only "creeps in" when people like you believe these are the opinion of our fanbase in general, which it obviously isn't.

Just because two or three vocal people say something dumb doesn't make it our fanbases opinion. Learn to shut them out.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

It only "creeps in" when people like you believe these are the opinion of our fanbase in general, which it obviously isn't.

Just because two or three vocal people say something dumb doesn't make it our fanbases opinion. Learn to shut them out.

That is how it starts though. The vocal crazies give opposing fans ammo, then the moderate fans end up playing devil's advocate and the opinion starts to seem almost normal.

It sucks that we're the biggest echo chamber just by nature of the size of our fan base, but the vocal minority does tend to shift opinion indirectly.

 

[snizzbone*]

I was going off of a bigger sample size and who is more tenacious on the backcheck.

theres a lot more to defensive play than backchecking.

 

[Mats13]

He doesn't even look that small next to Eichel and McDavid tbh, they just look more physically mature, like they are stronger right now.

If Marner was already beefcake and was 180 pounds and 5'11, I think he would have bumped Eichel tbh.

I think his point was if Eichel and Marner were the same size there really wouldn't be much if any separation.

I love Marner as much as just about any other Leafs fan, but you've got to calm down.

He's an elite prospect, but he's not Eichel.

 

[FlareKnight]

That is how it starts though. The vocal crazies give opposing fans ammo, then the moderate fans end up playing devil's advocate and the opinion starts to seem almost normal.

It sucks that we're the biggest echo chamber just by nature of the size of our fan base, but the vocal minority does tend to shift opinion indirectly.

I don't think that's what happens most of the time. One person goes over the top, a large group shouts them down, and then the moderates side with the shouters downgrading the prospect down to the point of underrating them so they don't sound like they are overrating the prospect.

That's another easily possible scenario that can happen. It's a thread about a particular prospect, who cares if people go a bit overboard? He went 4th overall in a darn good draft, high expectations are supposed to be there.

 

[Shwaguy*]

I think his point was if Eichel and Marner were the same size there really wouldn't be much if any separation.

Moreso elite Athleticism than size in general.

In terms of hockey skills Marner is pretty on par with Eichel. Eichel having the better shot (Much better, not to slight Marner's shot his is good. Eichel's is just the best in the draft and it's not close at all). Whereas Marner has the 2nd best Hands/Offensive IQ in the draft too McDavid IMO. Eichel is the better skater obviously but I think that goes back to him being a genetic freak.

Throw on top of that Generational Athleticism and you have Jack Eichel being far and away a better prospect than a player like Marner who compares favourably to a lot of former first overall picks. It's Impressive to say the least

 

[bobbyt 91*]

Moreso elite Athleticism than size in general.

In terms of hockey skills Marner is pretty on par with Eichel. Eichel having the better shot (Much better, not to slight Marner's shot his is good. Eichel's is just the best in the draft and it's not close at all). Whereas Marner has the 2nd best Hands/Offensive IQ in the draft too McDavid IMO. Eichel is the better skater obviously but I think that goes back to him being a genetic freak.

Throw on top of that Generational Athleticism and you have Jack Eichel being far and away a better prospect than a player like Marner who compares favourably to a lot of former first overall picks. It's Impressive to say the least

there ya go, you pretty much said what I was trying to say but in a better way

 

[Philip Kessel]

Moreso elite Athleticism than size in general.

In terms of hockey skills Marner is pretty on par with Eichel. Eichel having the better shot (Much better, not to slight Marner's shot his is good. Eichel's is just the best in the draft and it's not close at all). Whereas Marner has the 2nd best Hands/Offensive IQ in the draft too McDavid IMO. Eichel is the better skater obviously but I think that goes back to him being a genetic freak.

Throw on top of that Generational Athleticism and you have Jack Eichel being far and away a better prospect than a player like Marner who compares favourably to a lot of former first overall picks. It's Impressive to say the least

"generational athleticism"?? There are probably at least 10 guys in the nhl who are more athletic than jack eichel

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

"generational athleticism"?? There are probably at least 10 guys in the nhl who are more athletic than jack eichel

I'm not sure about that. Guy is a freak of nature.

 

[Semantics]

I'm not sure about that. Guy is a freak of nature.

People say that about a lot of players, including scrubs like Roman Polak. People are blowing Eichel's physical abilities absurdly out of proportionbecause of one YouTube video. He's good because he has good hockey sense, hands, shot, speed, etc., who cares how much weight he can hang clean. Obviously it helps to be stronger, but only marginally, and moreso relative to your body weight than in absolute numbers.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

People say that about a lot of players, including scrubs like Roman Polak. People are blowing Eichel's physical abilities absurdly out of proportionbecause of one YouTube video. He's good because he has good hockey sense, hands, shot, speed, etc., who cares how much weight he can hang clean. Obviously it helps to be stronger, but only marginally, and moreso relative to your body weight than in absolute numbers.

I'm less impressed by his strength. More impressed by his speed and stride. Might be the most powerful skater I've ever seen. Add his hand eye coordination and strength and its no wonder his athleticism is so highly ranked. There's a reason he dominated the combine.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I love Marner as much as just about any other Leafs fan, but you've got to calm down.

He's an elite prospect, but he's not Eichel.

Giroux is good, but he's no Jordan Staal. Staal has all the physical tools over him.

The point many of us are making is that right now, yes Eichel is better, but I wouldn't be surprised if in even a year or two Marner is the better player, especially once he puts up some numbers.

It might become who do you take? Giroux, who is elite offensively, and good to great at D, or Couture, who scores 20-30 less points a year and is only marginally better defensively if at all.

 

[Atomos2]

Giroux is good, but he's no Jordan Staal. Staal has all the physical tools over him.

The point many of us are making is that right now, yes Eichel is better, but I wouldn't be surprised if in even a year or two Marner is the better player, especially once he puts up some numbers.

It might become who do you take? Giroux, who is elite offensively, and good to great at D, or Couture, who scores 20-30 less points a year and is only marginally better defensively if at all.

Tbh, I think Eichel is already better than Couture. Or at least will be after an NHL season.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Tbh, I think Eichel is already better than Couture. Or at least will be after an NHL season.

I don't see it. I get called out by Buffalo fans, but this kid has an ego, and not a good one. He reminds me of a *****yer Kessel. Like "I am extremely skilled and should be given preference due to this" attitude which shined when he said he only signs an elc if he is promised a roster spot.

On a team with Ryan "O'Money hey is that a tim's" Reilly and Evander "Look how much money I can lift" Kane as his mentors, this problem will only get worse.

He seems like the type of kid who would blame his linemates for his screw ups. The question is whether his skill can get him past these issues.

The answer to me is no. I think he is going to struggle every year like Kane did to find consistency, and never become the player he was projected as.

Buffalo fans I will gladly eat my words if wrong, but Eichel is not generational.

 

[Fear]

I don't see it. I get called out by Buffalo fans, but this kid has an ego, and not a good one. He reminds me of a *****yer Kessel. Like "I am extremely skilled and should be given preference due to this" attitude which shined when he said he only signs an elc if he is promised a roster spot.

Even if this is his attitude it worked out okay for Lindros (ignoring the injuries, obviously...).

 

[Kamiccolo]

Even if this is his attitude it worked out okay for Lindros (ignoring the injuries, obviously...).

Except Lindros had twice the physical skill.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

I don't see it. I get called out by Buffalo fans, but this kid has an ego, and not a good one. He reminds me of a *****yer Kessel. Like "I am extremely skilled and should be given preference due to this" attitude which shined when he said he only signs an elc if he is promised a roster spot.

On a team with Ryan "O'Money hey is that a tim's" Reilly and Evander "Look how much money I can lift" Kane as his mentors, this problem will only get worse.

He seems like the type of kid who would blame his linemates for his screw ups. The question is whether his skill can get him past these issues.

The answer to me is no. I think he is going to struggle every year like Kane did to find consistency, and never become the player he was projected as.

Buffalo fans I will gladly eat my words if wrong, but Eichel is not generational.

I won't go into a lengthy "call-out" per say. I will just note that you are seeing and projecting things about Eichel that pretty much no one else has. That should tell you something.

 

[cookie]

I won't go into a lengthy "call-out" per say. I will just note that you are seeing and projecting things about Eichel that pretty much no one else has. That should tell you something.

And even if that's the case--and that's a big if--who's to say he won't reform as he matures? The Sabres also have Evander Kane in a similar situation, attitude-wise, but at the end of the day this issue might just be misinterpreted confidence. Being a Leafs fan, one can relate this back to the Kadri schenanigans, which, at the end of the day, did not affect his being the team's most consistent performer (at least on the possession side of things).

 

[Shwaguy*]

"generational athleticism"?? There are probably at least 10 guys in the nhl who are more athletic than jack eichel

Considering he's 18, and the others ahead of him are in their physical prime at 25 or so, I'm gonna stand by my point.


There may be a few guys who are faster, there may be a few guys who are stronger.

But there are very few if any who have the combination of Strength and Speed. He could very well have the speed of Phil Kessel with the strength and size of Getzlaf.

It's all about his Hockey Skills keeping up with him.

 

[Haatley]

I don't see it. I get called out by Buffalo fans, but this kid has an ego, and not a good one. He reminds me of a *****yer Kessel. Like "I am extremely skilled and should be given preference due to this" attitude which shined when he said he only signs an elc if he is promised a roster spot.

On a team with Ryan "O'Money hey is that a tim's" Reilly and Evander "Look how much money I can lift" Kane as his mentors, this problem will only get worse.

He seems like the type of kid who would blame his linemates for his screw ups. The question is whether his skill can get him past these issues.

The answer to me is no. I think he is going to struggle every year like Kane did to find consistency, and never become the player he was projected as.

Buffalo fans I will gladly eat my words if wrong, but Eichel is not generational.

so much wrong here. Wow.
wonder if you would be singing the same tune if Eichel was a Leaf.