C Joseph Veleno - Saint John Sea Dogs, QMJHL (2018, 30th, DET)

[Jtown]

veleno could walk into the nhl tomorrow and be a 15 minute a night 3rd line center , and could be that for the next 10 years. He has great skating ability goood hand and a decent shot. If he ever learns to become a more aggressive player instead of a perimter player he will have a great opportunity to become a very good 2nd line center.

 

[goonybird]

veleno could walk into the nhl tomorrow and be a 15 minute a night 3rd line center , and could be that for the next 10 years. He has great skating ability goood hand and a decent shot. If he ever learns to become a more aggressive player instead of a perimter player he will have a great opportunity to become a very good 2nd line center.

Accurate. He just needs some muscle. He's got decent weight on him, but he still looks like a string bean live. I think once he gets a bit stronger he'll be able to battle through the tight areas better and may get more aggressive

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Joe "Not skilled" Veleno

Crosby-esque puck possession there. Not as impressive but reminds me of this.



I'm just as puzzled as to why he fell so far. But I think it's because he was "just" a PPG with that anemic Saint Johns team and people probably wanted to see him carry that team offensively a bit more. Drummondville scored 100 goals more than Saint Johns did so I think some think he might have rid the coattails of a much better offensive team.

Wings were set on Defense but the players that fell into their laps @ 6 and 30 in Zadina and Veleno were just too good to pass up on.

 

[goonybird]

Crosby-esque puck possession there. Not as impressive but reminds me of this.



I'm just as puzzled as to why he fell so far. But I think it's because he was just a PPG with that anemic Saint Johns team and people probably wanted to see him carry that team offensively a bit more. Drummondville scored 100 goals more than Saint Johns did so I think some think he might have rid the coattails of a much better offensive team.

Wings were set on Defense but the players that fell into their laps @ 6 and 30 in Zadina and Veleno were just too good to pass up on.

To be fair, everyone in Saint John is actually anemic because they live on potatoes and lager

 

[newfy]

Seems very Larkin like to me. At 30 I like this pick, I think theres a bit of overscouting that took place on him because of his status. He showed good offense after the trade.

I think hell get a look for the junior team this year but end up a late cut

 

[Hen Kolland]

Might be going out on a limb with this one, but I feel like he could be developed by Detroit to mimic and eventually replace Frans Nielsen. A center who has strong enough offensive IQ to play up on a scoring line, and has a strong sense of positional responsibility to be trusted in a match-up center role. That would slot him in as a middle six center who plays a complete game, which is obviously what Detroit values. There's a reason that AA has never stuck as center with Detroit, and I speculate it's because of his lack of accountability to play 200ft hockey.

To me, that's kind of best case scenario, a younger Frans Nielsen. Anywhere from 10-20 goals and 20-30 assists depending on year and deployment.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

“I was telling my agent, if they will pass on me, I’m going to fill their nets with pucks,” Zadina said. “I want to prove to Detroit that they make a pretty good decision.”

“I think I am going to help him do that,” Veleno said. “Our types of games are different — he is more of a scorer, and I’m more of a passer, so hopefully I can help him with that. But I mean, for any player who slides in the draft, obviously it kind of gets to you a little bit and you want to kind of shove it to the other teams that passed you.

“He is good guy, so if we play together, it will be awesome,” Zadina said. “He is a good center, so we could play well together. If he will pass me the puck so I can score the goals, it would be awesome.”

I f***ing love these two already.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

“I was telling my agent, if they will pass on me, I’m going to fill their nets with pucks,” Zadina said. “I want to prove to Detroit that they make a pretty good decision.”

“I think I am going to help him do that,” Veleno said. “Our types of games are different — he is more of a scorer, and I’m more of a passer, so hopefully I can help him with that. But I mean, for any player who slides in the draft, obviously it kind of gets to you a little bit and you want to kind of shove it to the other teams that passed you.

I f***ing love these two already.

Of course.

But what else could they have said?

"They were right to pass on me because there are red flags about me". ?!

 

[Alex Jones]

Might be going out on a limb with this one, but I feel like he could be developed by Detroit to mimic and eventually replace Frans Nielsen. A center who has strong enough offensive IQ to play up on a scoring line, and has a strong sense of positional responsibility to be trusted in a match-up center role. That would slot him in as a middle six center who plays a complete game, which is obviously what Detroit values. There's a reason that AA has never stuck as center with Detroit, and I speculate it's because of his lack of accountability to play 200ft hockey.

To me, that's kind of best case scenario, a younger Frans Nielsen. Anywhere from 10-20 goals and 20-30 assists depending on year and deployment.

Yea I don't think that's a bad comparison, I can see it. I don't know if Veleno will have quite the offensive output as Nielson, but I think that the comparison makes a lot of sense outside of that.

 

[ijuka]

What I honestly don't understand regarding Veleno is the storyline that he "Can't score in a junior league, low ceiling player" etc. He scored at a 1.5 PPG pace after the trade. And then there's talk like "Hayton's scoring is in line with other good centers". Just how does that make any sense? Yes, I know that OHL is stronger than QMJHL but not that much.

All the "4th liner, maybe 3rd" talk is just absurd. He'll be at least a good 2C, probably peaking as a decent 1C.

 

[Chinatown88]

Wanted the Flyers to grab him. Hoping he does well in Detroit. I'm pretty jealous of the draft the Wings just had.

 

[Andrei79]

veleno could walk into the nhl tomorrow and be a 15 minute a night 3rd line center , and could be that for the next 10 years. He has great skating ability goood hand and a decent shot. If he ever learns to become a more aggressive player instead of a perimter player he will have a great opportunity to become a very good 2nd line center.

If by 3rd line center, you mean 4th line winger, then maybe.

He has potential, but I'm not convinced he has the offensive IQ to be a top 6 guy, nor the shot. I'm looking forward to how he improves this year, because he still has room for it. Who knows how he will, but as of now I like the Berggren pick quite a bit more.

The 1st line C talk though is crazy atm. Hes basically never been more than a ppg guy who has trouble scoring outside of a 1 month anomaly following his trade.

 

[newfy]

What I honestly don't understand regarding Veleno is the storyline that he "Can't score in a junior league, low ceiling player" etc. He scored at a 1.5 PPG pace after the trade. And then there's talk like "Hayton's scoring is in line with other good centers". Just how does that make any sense? Yes, I know that OHL is stronger than QMJHL but not that much.

All the "4th liner, maybe 3rd" talk is just absurd. He'll be at least a good 2C, probably peaking as a decent 1C.

Even in St Johns his raw numbers werent great but he was leading that team in points as a draft eligible. No one else was point per game on that team and hes a play maker. Moves to a solid team and tears up. I dont think he shouldve been top 10 or anything but I think a little disappointment hes not McDavid or Tavares, combined with overscouting made him fall a bit further than he should have. I think hes better than your typical 30th overall pick

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I'm just happy for Detroit on their draft, but I do think their team just needs some cooldown time before turning explosive again.

 

[TheMule93]

I'm just happy for Detroit on their draft, but I do think their team just needs some cooldown time before turning explosive again.

we're almost decade removed from our last conference finals appearance....

 

[93LEAFS]

Even in St Johns his raw numbers werent great but he was leading that team in points as a draft eligible. No one else was point per game on that team and hes a play maker. Moves to a solid team and tears up. I dont think he shouldve been top 10 or anything but I think a little disappointment hes not McDavid or Tavares, combined with overscouting made him fall a bit further than he should have. I think hes better than your typical 30th overall pick

Players clearly better than the 30th overall can generally be high-end scorers in the QMJHL even on bad teams. He's Mikey McLeod 2.0. That might be worth more than the 30th overall, to some, but 25-30 sounds about the right range for that type of player.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I'm just happy for Detroit on their draft, but I do think their team just needs some cooldown time before turning explosive again.

They're still gonna suck this upcoming season, and likely the one after that, too.

But with this current group plus a few more top ten, possibly lottery picks, I can see 20-21 being our playoff return.

 

[93LEAFS]

They're still gonna suck this upcoming season, and likely the one after that, too.

But with this current group plus a few more top ten, possibly lottery picks, I can see 20-21 being our playoff return.

Outside of praying for Hughes, I assume most wings fans will be discussing Bowan Byram half the year.

Although, the league is strange. Avs bounced back and Vegas just made the finals. But, on paper, the Wings should be a bottom 5 team.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Players clearly better than the 30th overall can generally be high-end scorers in the QMJHL even on bad teams. He's Mikey McLeod 2.0. That might be worth more than the 30th overall, to some, but 25-30 sounds about the right range for that type of player.

Ehh. The QMJHL production transfer criticism was also used on Mantha, which is part of the reason he fell to 20. (Citing compete level also) That pick has worked out pretty well for Detroit so far. You have to think he'll probably get a few 30 goal seasons in.

Outside of praying for Hughes, I assume most wings fans will be discussing Bowan Byram half the year.

Although, the league is strange. Avs bounced back and Vegas just made the finals. But, on paper, the Wings should be a bottom 5 team.

Probably gonna have to win a lotto pick to get Byram, too. I thought I saw mocks (Granted, a lot changes in a year) having him at number two.

If this draft proves anything though, it's that Holland is taking BPA. Depending on how he and Detroit feel about the draft this year will probably influence whether Nyquist gets flipped for a first or packaged for a defender.

 

[93LEAFS]

Ehh. The QMJHL production transfer criticism was also used on Mantha, which is part of the reason he fell to 20. (Citing compete level also) That pick has worked out pretty well for Detroit so far. You have to think he'll probably get a few 30 goal seasons in.



Probably gonna have to win a lotto pick to get Byram, too. I thought I saw mocks (Granted, a lot changes in a year) having him at number two.

If this draft proves anything though, it's that Holland is taking BPA. Depending on how he and Detroit feel about the draft this year will probably influence whether Nyquist gets flipped for a first or packaged for a defender.

Mantha's numbers blow Veleno out of the park. And, just because Mantha is an exception doesn't mean Veleno is, I could just as easily bring up Zach Phillips in the opposite type of statement.

Byram is in play at 2. But, one, we are a year out. Sometimes the top 2 holds for an entire year like Dahlin and Svechnikov or Matthews/ Eichel just did, but most of the time the #2 changes. Remember 2017 it was Patrick/Liljegren, 2016 was Matthews and one of Chychrun/Puljujarvi, 2013 was Mackinnon/Jones, etc.

Right now, Byram is in play at 2, but he's probably on a similar tier to guys like Kakko, Newhook, and Alex Turcotte.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Mantha's numbers blow Veleno out of the park. And, just because Mantha is an exception doesn't mean Veleno is, I could just as easily bring up Zach Phillips in the opposite type of statement.

Byram is in play at 2. But, one, we are a year out. Sometimes the top 2 holds for an entire year like Dahlin and Svechnikov or Matthews/ Eichel just did, but most of the time the #2 changes. Remember 2017 it was Patrick/Liljegren, 2016 was Matthews and one of Chychrun/Puljujarvi, 2013 was Mackinnon/Jones, etc.

Right now, Byram is in play at 2, but he's probably on a similar tier to guys like Kakko, Newhook, and Alex Turcotte.

FWIW Liljegren and Jones are now proving they never should've fallen so far...

... So that kinda supports Veleno in this thread.

After the first round of the draft I compared Detroit to pre-McDavid Edmonton. Great young offensive group, (Hall/RNH/Eberle, Zadina/Larkin/Mantha) but an abomination of a defense.

Granted, Hronek, Cholo, and McIsaac all have great potential. Just think it's a long shot that any of them are a top pairing guy.

 

[93LEAFS]

FWIW Liljegren and Jones are now proving they never should've fallen so far...

... So that kinda supports Veleno in this thread.

After the first round of the draft I compared Detroit to pre-McDavid Edmonton. Great young offensive group, (Hall/RNH/Eberle, Zadina/Larkin/Mantha) but an abomination of a defense.

Granted, Hronek, Cholo, and McIsaac all have great potential. Just think it's a long shot that any of them are a top pairing guy.

Well, I don't think Veleno entered the year that highly. My point was more about Byram, in that I don't think he's a lock for a lottery (top 3) spot by any means at this point

Also, as with the Phillips example, it goes both ways. I seem to remember a highly hyped guy from the Q slipping from 1st overall in his draft year, I think he was last seen in the 2nd Czech Division. Veleno was around a mid-first for me entering the year, so he didn't really drop that much. He's a fine pick at 30, but I think his fall was merited, same with Ryan McLeod.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Well, I don't think Veleno entered the year that highly. My point was more about Byram, in that I don't think he's a lock for a lottery (top 3) spot by any means at this point

Also, as with the Phillips example, it goes both ways. I seem to remember a highly hyped guy from the Q slipping from 1st overall in his draft year, I think he was last seen in the 2nd Czech Division. Veleno was around a mid-first for me entering the year, so he didn't really drop that much. He's a fine pick at 30, but I think his fall was merited, same with Ryan McLeod.

Ya I know you meant Byram, just trying to manipulate things to suit my stance.

FWIW, I've heard a lot of comparisons of Veleno to Larkin. That being said, Larkin's ceiling is significantly higher now than it was when he was drafted. Don't think anybody saw him as more than a 2nd line center in 2014. He's shattered that glass ceiling and now raised questions as to if he can become one of the better two way centers in the league.

 

[goonybird]

I've seen a lot of Esposito comparisons, but they are ludicrous. He was a problem child the moment he refused to play for Saint John if drafted (and subsequently 9 other teams) and fell in the JUNIOR draft. He then got worse as he got older because he didn't think he had to try. He was the 2nd coming of Alexandre Daigle had a team been dumb enough to draft him where he was originally predicted to go.

Veleno has none of the attitude/motivation problems. He's just not a driver of goal scoring, and is best served by being put with a scoring winger. (Zajac and Parise, Bozak and Kessel, etc.) I think he'll be better than those centres but he's not someone who can consistently pass their way into 100 pts with dogshit wingers like Thornton, Savard, Crosby, etc have/do.

 

[newfy]

Players clearly better than the 30th overall can generally be high-end scorers in the QMJHL even on bad teams. He's Mikey McLeod 2.0. That might be worth more than the 30th overall, to some, but 25-30 sounds about the right range for that type of player.

Meh, we'll see. If Veleno doesnt really progress at all from here he'll be more like Mcleod. McLeod was never the go to guy on his team, and 2 years post draft he was 6th on his team in scoring. Veleno was at least the clear number one guy on a bad team, then he went to a new team and was cleary the top guy for 33 games prior to his draft year.

Mcleod didnt have a run like Veleno did to end this season in his entire junior career 2 years post draft. Veleno still has 2 years to build on that. I dont think hes some blue chip cant miss prospect but I dont think comparing him to a guy who regressed over his junior career is fair either. At the point of them each being drafted I would say theyre somewhat comparable and Mcleod went 12th (without having a showig like Veleno did to end the season) helping my point that hes probably a little lower than he should be. But development isnt linear and that happened to Mcleod

On top of that, we dont really know what McLeod will be at the next level so hard to say what type of player he even is