C Connor Bedard - Regina Pats, WHL (2023 Draft) Part 3

[Rengorlex]

How quickly you become good has nothing to do with the being a ”generational” player. Don’t you just have to be a…..pretty darn good player?

Every generational player has become good very quickly.

 

[VictorLustig]

Every generational player has become good very quickly.

Many non-generational players have become good very quickly too.

 

[Jukurit]

Jack Hughes probably shouldn't have even played in NHL in his D+1 year. If his D+2 year was his rookie year, he would have 87 points in 105 games so far, which is very good.

I think Makar is a generational talent. What if he hadn't gone back to play one more year at UMass? Probably wouldn't have had such an explosive start to his NHL career.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hughes has 108 points in 166 NHL games. In a relatively high scoring era to boot. That's a failure relative to the generational expectations that many had for him.

A generational talent is immediately a top 10 player in the league and becomes the dominant player of the sport in a quick fashion after getting his feet wet. If Bedard is generational, then he's going to make his case as the best player in the world within the next three years.

With his frame it really wasn't all that surprising that it took him a few years for the points to come. But he was showing flashes of elite elite play even at 19.

The term generational is definitely overused, but there is a very good chance he becomes the best forward drafted in the 5 year period from 2017-2022, and possibly even longer (Bedard and Michkov are obvious challengers that we know of but there's no guarantee either end up better).

I do think Bedard is the slightly better overall prospect because - I see him as the safer pick between the two at the same age. But he has the benefit of being much more filled out at 16-17 - dude is already built extremely well.

That said, I think Hughes probably had the higher ceiling because of his skating, but Bedard feels like his floor is like a 40+40 type of player, which is pretty nuts.

Hughes is trending to become a dynamic 100+ point franchise center by the age of 21. That doesn't happen too often.

Jack Hughes probably shouldn't have even played in NHL in his D+1 year. If his D+2 year was his rookie year, he would have 87 points in 105 games so far, which is very good.

I think Makar is a generational talent. What if he hadn't gone back to play one more year at UMass? Probably wouldn't have had such an explosive start to his NHL career.

Sorry, Makar can't be generational because he didn't play in the NHL at 18. Same with Ovechkin. Those are the rules.

 

[Rengorlex]

Hughes is trending to become a dynamic 100+ point franchise center by the age of 21. That doesn't happen too often.


Sorry, Makar can't be generational because he didn't play in the NHL at 18. Same with Ovechkin. Those are the rules.

Has to be adjusted for scoring levels, which are the highest in 25 years.

Ovechkin happened to win the Art Ross, Hart Trophy, Ted Lindsay and Rocket Richard and score the highest goal total by any player in 25 years during his ELC after storming the league with more than 50 goals and 100 points in his D+2 season. Muddying the waters isn't going to help. If Bedard is generational, chances are he dominates the league the moment he enters it. If not, expect the excuses.

 

[Kennerback]

Jack Hughes probably shouldn't have even played in NHL in his D+1 year. If his D+2 year was his rookie year, he would have 87 points in 105 games so far, which is very good.

I think Makar is a generational talent. What if he hadn't gone back to play one more year at UMass? Probably wouldn't have had such an explosive start to his NHL career.

Makar is definitely a generational talent. Probably the best D since Bobby Orr. But Ds have a steeper learning curve. You can’t expect them to burn the league down at 18.

This is Paul Coffee’s learning curve….
.

1980–81	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	74	9	23	32	130	9	4	3	7	22
1981–82	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	29	60	89	106	5	1	1	2	6
1982–83	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	29	67	96	87	16	7	7	14	14
1983–84	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	40	86	126	104	19	8	14	22	21
1984–85	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	37	84	121	97	18	12	25	37	44
1985–86	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	79	48	90	138	120

PS: I‘m old enough to have watched Coffee in his best years, and yes Makar is better than him

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Has to be adjusted for scoring levels, which are the highest in 25 years.

Ovechkin happened to win the Art Ross, Hart Trophy, Ted Lindsay and Rocket Richard and score the highest goal total by any player in 25 years during his ELC after storming the league with more than 50 goals and 100 points in his D+2 season. Muddying the waters isn't going to help. If Bedard is generational, chances are he dominates the league the moment he enters it. If not, expect the excuses.

Even adjusting for scoring, what Hughes did at 20 is pretty remarkable. He paced for 44 goals and 94 points as a center. Ovechkin had 46 goals and 92 points in 82 games as a 20 year old. He's going to he a top 10 center in the league starting this year. He was top 10 in points per game and 5v5 p/60 among all centers who played at least 40 games, while playing for a lottery team.

 

[koyvoo]

Scoring was way, way up last year compared to Ovie’s 20 year old season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Scoring was way, way up last year compared to Ovie’s 20 year old season.

I don't know about "way way up". It was only 6% lower than 2022, and PP goals were actually up 42%. The top scorer had 120 points with 7 100 point guys. This year the top scorer was at 123 and there were 8 100 point guys.

 

[Kranix]

The big hyped 1st overalls recently have all failed in Dahlin, Hughes and Lafreniere. Wright fell off in hype during his draft year too. All of them were annointed generational talents at one point or other, by the media and fans.

It's fair to nitpick because most prospects never live up to the hype. Maybe Bedard will and hopefully that's the case. Next step is to demolish the CHL competition.

Dahlin and Hughes are going to be superstars. Laf was probably a bit overhyped.

 

[TGWL]

Hughes has 108 points in 166 NHL games. In a relatively high scoring era to boot. That's a failure relative to the generational expectations that many had for him.

A generational talent is immediately a top 10 player in the league and becomes the dominant player of the sport in a quick fashion after getting his feet wet. If Bedard is generational, then he's going to make his case as the best player in the world within the next three years.

Jack was more referred to as a franchise player than a generational one, especially by most. The league doesn't have 15-20 generational talents. He's becoming that franchise player for NJD and there was nothing disappointing with the pick.

 

[Belloco]

Jack was more referred to as a franchise player than a generational one, especially by most. The league doesn't have 15-20 generational talents. He's becoming that franchise player for NJD and there was nothing disappointing with the pick.

My definition : 1 generational talent is 1 player every 10-15 years. The one who will become the best of his generation.

It may happen that there are 2 in a very short time (Gretzky/Lemieux) then none.

Generational talent are:
Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid

 

[ponder]

Jack was more referred to as a franchise player than a generational one, especially by most. The league doesn't have 15-20 generational talents. He's becoming that franchise player for NJD and there was nothing disappointing with the pick.

Definitely - if anything he was viewed as a high risk pick who might become a franchise player, but could be quite a disappointment. He was super skilled, but small and had a game that seemed not very mature/NHL ready. I’d say he was seen as having upside in line with a solid 1st overall pick, but much more risky than your average 1st overall pick.

I’d say his first 2 seasons were a bit disappointing, but year 3 was terrific. If you look where he’s at now, I’d say he’s exceeding “reasonable” draft-day expectations of where he’d be 3 years in.

 

[Belloco]

Makar is definitely a generational talent. Probably the best D since Bobby Orr. But Ds have a steeper learning curve. You can’t expect them to burn the league down at 18.

This is Paul Coffee’s learning curve….
.

1980–81	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	74	9	23	32	130	9	4	3	7	22
1981–82	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	29	60	89	106	5	1	1	2	6
1982–83	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	29	67	96	87	16	7	7	14	14
1983–84	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	40	86	126	104	19	8	14	22	21
1984–85	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	37	84	121	97	18	12	25	37	44
1985–86	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	79	48	90	138	120

PS: I‘m old enough to have watched Coffee in his best years, and yes Makar is better than him

No, it's a franchise talent. A player of his level, we see several in each generation. Many defenders are very close to his level.

Anyway, it seems too early to say he is better than Lidstrom.

 

[GrizzGreen]

No, it's a franchise talent. A player of his level, we see several in each generation. Many defenders are very close to his level.

Anyway, it seems too early to say he is better than Lidstrom.

Lidstrom also played his best hockey after 30, Josi is doing incredible on his back 9, and guys like Giordano are holding up fairly well in their later years.

Pretty premature to put concrete labels on these young defensemen in general, imo

 

[canadianmagpie]

He's been ripping up the intersquad games. Had two yesterday and five today. Granted it's intersquad so he should be scoring a ton but I think he'll be scoring around 2 points a game at a minimum.

 

[Silkytentacles]

Better hands and skating currently or are we comparing them at 17 yrs old?

At 17

 

[CanadienShark]

It means that at 5'7 if you are a "good" playmaker, your good playmaking isn't as effective as the "good" playmaking of a player who is 6'3.

Do I need to explain why that is? I'll do so. If you are 5'7, your space gets crowded out easier, you have a harder time creating space, it's easier to strip you of the puck, you are usually stripped of it quicker, and you have a crowded view of the ice through the trees.

Because it's not as good as a 6'3 player with good playmaking, it'd be stupid to treat the exact same ability in a vacuum for a 6'3 player like you would a 5'7 player. Thats why I think when you are 5'7 and in a vacuum you are good in an area, it probably isn't accurate to call it good. It's probably not going to end up being a real asset at the NHL level, if it's only good.

Your takes here are just incredibly... bad. Yeesh dude. You're making it seem like ability is quantifiable like size. And bigger ≠ better.

 

[GM Armchair]

At 17

Oh my

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Your takes here are just incredibly... bad. Yeesh dude. You're making it seem like ability is quantifiable like size. And bigger ≠ better.

And I think your arguing style is very childish and bad at getting your point through. Instead of explaining how you see it, you just call the other person wrong or their takes bad. Then when pressed on explaining your view, you give the most vanilla responses that explain absolutely nothing, and leave no room for debate.

If you want to get critical of others, you should be more willing to defend your views because you undermine anything you might say about others with how poorly you make your points.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Even adjusting for scoring, what Hughes did at 20 is pretty remarkable. He paced for 44 goals and 94 points as a center. Ovechkin had 46 goals and 92 points in 82 games as a 20 year old. He's going to he a top 10 center in the league starting this year. He was top 10 in points per game and 5v5 p/60 among all centers who played at least 40 games, while playing for a lottery team.

He will never be a top 10 centre in the league. And Bedard is significantly more talented.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He will never be a top 10 centre in the league. And Bedard is significantly more talented.

Wrong on both fronts.

 

[1909]

McDavid 1st WJC: 16.11 years old; 7 gp 1g 3a; no gold

Bedard 1st WJC: 17.1 years old; 7 gp 4g 4a; won gold

Bedard had the better initial WJC.

Bédard was not the difference maker at all in this WJC

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Bédard was not the difference maker at all in this WJC

What does that have to do with anything. He put up more points than McDavid.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Wrong on both fronts.

Garbage. Bedard is trending to be better than Hughes. But so was Wright and he sort of leveled off. We'll have to see if Bedard continues to progress this season.