C Brad Lambert - HIFK U20, Jr. A SM-liiga (2022 Draft)

[Jussi]

Your way out in right field with your argument and not what I was alluding to at all. You are completely missing the point

I could also put a list together that dwarfs your 3 player list of players from the CHL. But you, like a majority of Finns, already have their biased minds made up

So please do list the FINNISH players that have made it into the NHL via CHL. Because that's what the talk is. No one cares about the OVERALL situation. No one is claiming Liiga is superior per se but for Finnish players, Liiga has been the far better option.

 

[Jussi]

Doesn't mean anything atm.

It does because there's been no indication he's changing his stance.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Nope, problem is a contender-level Liiga-team HIFK, which would not give him a Top6 role.

But he could get a Top6 role in lesser level, bottom5 team. And if he goes to 2nd level Mestis, he would be 1st liner for sure, developing with men environment, playingst against men.

Simple things, their family is too smart to know what the role means. They want that role and they want that right competition level.

Playing against juniors in Canada would be a step back for the individual, imho. Finland against men (in men environment) is the best place to develop. Swedish second level offers that environment too, with realistic quality of compeition.

Playing in Mestis would be step back, the quality just isn’t there. Jukurit wouldn’t be bad. They’ve been producing players, not that far from Lahti, could slot in top 6.

 

[bigdog16]

So please do list the FINNISH players that have made it into the NHL via CHL. Because that's what the talk is. No one cares about the OVERALL situation. No one is claiming Liiga is superior per se but for Finnish players, Liiga has been the far better option.

Its a newer avenue that Finnish players really havent explored yet because they are pretty loyal to their country. That doesnt mean it wont work. Valimaki was successful in the CHL and into pro hockey before his injury. Same with Jokiharju, Borgstrom has developed well after going NCAA. There just isnt many top prospects from Finland coming to NA pre draft. But the ones who have turn out fine. Finland has their share of duds that never developed well, the same way that Canada has their duds that dont develop well

 

[wings5]

You misinterpreted what I was saying. I know hes going to the junior level. Im saying this gives him an additional 2 years to adapt to NA and the NA style of play before he goes to the NHL. But apparently according to you Canada and Finland are the exact same and no adjustment would be required. I think Kakko would say otherwise.....

Abysmal comprehension

Why are you just looking at Kakko? There are numerous North American dissapointments as well and also players from Finland who have transitioned well such as Laine, Aho and Heiskanen. Going to North America earlier isn't always the recipe to success, players like Rajala, Yakupov, Kabanov are good examples of this.

 

[bigdog16]

Why are you just looking at Kakko? There are numerous North American dissapointments as well and also players from Finland who have transitioned well such as Laine, Aho and Heiskanen. Going to North America earlier isn't always the recipe to success, players like Rajala, Yakupov, Kabanov are good examples of this.

I completely agree with you. There are hits and misses on both sides of the argument. But for people saying that Finland is the best route and has proven that, I disagree with. I think CHL is a great avenue

 

[wings5]

I completely agree with you. There are hits and misses on both sides of the argument. But for people saying that Finland is the best route and has proven that, I disagree with. I think CHL is a great avenue

No one is disputting CHL as a development route that has been proven for years. Just simply stating that Liiga is great route as he is playing against men, you might be able to say that 10 years ago but Finland have figured out player development over the last few years. I also don't buy the whole adjusting to NA ice earlier part either as Finland has several NA and hybrid sized ice sheets and their kids are usuallyry adept in English. Plus, Lambert played some youth hockey in Canada already and his Father is Canadian so he will be fine in the adjustment to lifestyle.

 

[Newfoundland]

WHL bound?

 

[Zub]

WHL bound?

Possibly yeah, destination unknown atm.

 

[ijuka]

HIFK's junior development program is something I'm not very fond of and he received far too few games for his skill level last year, so it's very understandable that he would switch teams.

Now, I'm not sure why people seem to be presuming that he's moving to play in Canada. I guess that's possible, but I don't really see the point. The only reason I can think of is if Corona won't impact games in Canada as much.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Most recent rumors state that he would be going into JYP. This is unexpected as I don't really know what JYP would offer instead of going abroad, guess having guaranteed play time is more important for him.

 

[belair]

Why are you just looking at Kakko? There are numerous North American dissapointments as well and also players from Finland who have transitioned well such as Laine, Aho and Heiskanen. Going to North America earlier isn't always the recipe to success, players like Rajala, Yakupov, Kabanov are good examples of this.

You're blaming the CHL for Rajala flopping? He was a promising prospect in the AHL. He just didn't want any competition. The guy quit and went home.

Going to the CHL will always be better for exposure. They scout the crap out of those guys.

 

[RickTheDick61]

According to Finnish tabloids, he's headed to Jyp Jyväskylä.

 

[Mysteric1000]

If its true hes heading to JYP it makes it interesting, cuz they have acquired many other young guys in this "offseason" already. (Jurmo, Puistola, Helenius most recently)

Sportcity all the way and they have this new investment for the ice hall aswell. I bet Coronasituation has forced them to cut some of the player investments and they want to focus on young players and development instead.

I think it is a good organization to develop him going forward and can offer environment to grow mentally and physically.

 

[Bakayoko Ono]

HIFK's junior development program is something I'm not very fond of and he received far too few games for his skill level last year, so it's very understandable that he would switch teams.
...

I'm a season ticket holder but don't watch IFK's away games, so I only saw the two home games he played. He was clearly not a Liiga-level player in those two games.

It's going to be interesting to see how he does next year, should he stay in Finland. At that age, talented kids can take significant strides in their development in just one offseason-season-cycle. I'll be especially impressed if he'll be able to play a full, successful season as a center.

 

[wings5]

You're blaming the CHL for Rajala flopping? He was a promising prospect in the AHL. He just didn't want any competition. The guy quit and went home.

Going to the CHL will always be better for exposure. The scout the crap out of those guys.

Who knows what would have happened with Rajala it was one example. Also exposure and draft position mean nothing in the long run.

 

[belair]

Who knows what would have happened with Rajala it was one example. Also exposure and draft position mean nothing in the long run.

Of course they mean something. You don't think professional teams cater to their blue chip prospects?

The only real benefit to an elite prospect avoiding the CHL is their ability to go straight into the AHL once drafted. Prospects in Europe struggle to get sufficient ice time to develop the offensive side of their game. In most Junior programs, they encourage it.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Of course they mean something. You don't think professional teams cater to their blue chip prospects?

The only real benefit to an elite prospect avoiding the CHL is their ability to go straight into the AHL once drafted. Prospects in Europe struggle to get sufficient ice time to develop the offensive side of their game. In most Junior programs, they encourage it.

If Lambert signs with JYP, he can be “loaned” to a Western league team. That way, upon being drafted, JYP gets the transfer fee and Lambert has the option of AHL/WHL/NHL/JYP his D+1 season.

 

[belair]

If Lambert signs with JYP, he can be “loaned” to a Western league team. That way, upon being drafted, JYP gets the transfer fee and Lambert has the option of AHL/WHL/NHL/JYP his D+1 season.

Lambert doesn't get drafted until 2022.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Lambert doesn't get drafted until 2022.

And that changes what I wrote, how?

 

[belair]

And that changes what I wrote, how?

About the same as your post acknowledged the fact that many Euro prospects generally struggle to get sufficient ice time to grow their offensive games.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

About the same as your post acknowledged the fact that many Euro prospects generally struggle to get sufficient ice time to grow their offensive games.

Reference, please?

 

[wings5]

Of course they mean something. You don't think professional teams cater to their blue chip prospects?

The only real benefit to an elite prospect avoiding the CHL is their ability to go straight into the AHL once drafted. Prospects in Europe struggle to get sufficient ice time to develop the offensive side of their game. In most Junior programs, they encourage it.

This is not true at all. Alot of Russians fall in the draft because of their lack of exposure but when you see these mid round Russian picks against these first round North American players in international tournys , they are often just as good if not better. Their skill level is certainly not lacking either , junior in North America is mostly teaching systems . The elite young talent still make it through the system but I find some other European countries like Sweden to be better in development based on country size and players registered per capita. Ice time argument is overated as well, many young players have developed just fine in mens leagues, even with less than ideal ice time.

 

[belair]

Reference, please?

I should actually be more specific because I'm talking about pre-draft since we're discussing a 16 year old two full seasons before his NHL draft year.

But it's pretty common for most European and Russian programs to have drafted NHL prospects and veteran professionals playing ahead of these U18 prospects. If you're talking about a player whose bread and butter is their natural offensive talent, having a limited opportunity to display it would be counter productive, no?

Why is Lambert leaving the program to begin with?

There are positives and negatives any which way when it comes to choosing either the CHL, USHL or Europe though. Not really trashing any decision.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

I should actually be more specific because I'm talking about pre-draft since we're discussing a 16 year old two full seasons before his NHL draft year.

But it's pretty common for most European and Russian programs to have drafted NHL prospects and veteran professionals playing ahead of these U18 prospects. If you're talking about a player whose bread and butter is their natural offensive talent, having a limited opportunity to display it would be counter productive, no?

Why is Lambert leaving the program to begin with?

There are positives and negatives any which way when it comes to choosing either the CHL, USHL or Europe though. Not really trashing any decision.

So what I wrote is irrelevant to whatever point you want to make.